This is Why Sloan Kills Us

[sodapop]

Retired, after winning a championship? Stockton? I don't think so.

It's easy for us in the future to look back and say what he might do, but he, at the time, did not know it was his last best shot.

[ColdBlue]

It's easy for us in the future to look back and say what he might do

It's easy for anyone to look back and say whatever they want... you know... sh*t like Stockton was injured in the finals, Ostertag was the best center in the NBA, and Adam Keefe's natural hair color is black.

What's hard is not being able to tell these people to go **** themselves.

[loserX]

It's easy for anyone to look back and say whatever they want... you know... sh*t like Stockton was injured in the finals, Ostertag was the best center in the NBA, and Adam Keefe's natural hair color is black.

Or even "If Sloan had played Stockton more, we would have beaten Jordan and won the championship." Goes both ways.

[Tabasco]

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It's easy for anyone to look back and say whatever they want... you know... sh*t like Stockton was injured in the finals, Ostertag was the best center in the NBA, and Adam Keefe's natural hair color is black.

What's hard is not being able to tell these people to go **** themselves.

Why are you so angry?

[sodapop]

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It's easy for anyone to look back and say whatever they want... you know... sh*t like Stockton was injured in the finals, Ostertag was the best center in the NBA, and Adam Keefe's natural hair color is black.

What's hard is not being able to tell these people to go **** themselves.

There is a difference between fact supported by news articles from that period, compared with a persons opinion of what a player might of thought, if something different had happened 10 years ago.

Spending days looking for threads of evidence from 10 years ago that may support an opinion is desperation when someones fails to check out possible reasons for the change. 95 percent of the coaches Sloan has coached against have also never won a ring. Not putting part of the blame on situations that were out of his control, such as the Stern jigger naught, Jordan and Stockton, Malone, and Hornacek is not only a disservice to him, but shows a lack of fair play just to justify a position. It seems some here are less fans of a team, and more fans of a cause.

When we have a coach that has a losing record and are mired in a revolving door at the position you will understand how lucky this small franchise was in getting Sloan. Until then rally your friends to the cause and download the Hannah wallpaper.

[gojazzgo]

you will understand how lucky this small franchise was in getting Sloan.

Didn't we pick him up after he got fired by the Bulls? It's not like we stole him from another team or convinced him to un-retire after being a successful coach.

[CAE15]

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Why are you so angry?

I stood him up....

[sodapop]

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Didn't we pick him up after he got fired by the Bulls? It's not like we stole him from another team or convinced him to un-retire after being a successful coach.

Any other coach with his winning record would of bolted Utah long ago. We were lucky no matter how he came to be here.

[Six_Fore]

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What's hard is not being able to tell these people to go **** themselves.

Wow, there is more drama in here than on a soap opera...

Here's how I see it. Yes, Sloan can be extremely frustrating at times. Not playing Deron his rookie year, all the drama between him and players, not making coaching adjustments... I was extremely frustrated when he didn't pull Booze against Portland when Booze play like piss.

That said, the good out weighs the bad, by far. The GSW were swept out of the first round in the 93'-94' season, they wouldn't play another play off game for 12 years... 12 YEARS!!

The Jazz lost in 5 in the first round of the 02'-03' season and they sat out for only 3 years. Wow, 3 versus 12

[JDubJazz]

Thats it, I've held my tongue long enough. Soda and Six, welcome to the board (the more the merrier), but please excuse me now, while I explain why think your opinions regarding coach Sloan are homeristic at best, idiotic at worst.

It seems like every year we get a few new posters (who usually disappear by season's end) who come in here and start throwing around the whole, "Sloan knows more basketball than you do card, or the "He's earned it" card, or, my favorite. "we're lucky to have him!"

If Jerry knows so much more basketball than me, how come I can figure out that shooting 33% from three point range is just as effective as shooting 50% from inside the arc. How come I can see the fact that Jason Hart is, on his best day, a somewhat serviceable backup point guard who can't shoot and dribbles out the clock; yet Jerry continues to play him alongside Deron Williams despite the fact that we have four true shooting guards on the roster?

What exactly has Sloan "earned?" He had two of the 50 best of all time, and argueable the two best at their individual positions, yet his teams consistently dissapointed in the playoffs. On any other team, failure to win a title with the pieces he had would have meant dismissal. He's the Marty Schottenheimer of the NBA. Sure Marty will get you a lot of regular season wins, but everyone knows that he won't win you the big one. San Diego fired him after a 14-2 season because they want to WIN IT ALL! The Jazz should take the same approach with Sloan. We know what we're gonna get as long as he's coach, and it isn't a title!

Finally, the Jazz are not lucky to have him. He's lucky the Jazz are so gutless with personnel moves. There is a reason no other coach in any other professional sport lasts more than ten years. They burn out! The problem is, Coach Sloan burned out before the 1998 Finals, but no one in the Jazz's front office ever noticed. If Pat Riley or Larry Brown had coached the 1998 Finals team, I believe the jazz would have at least one championship.

This is nowhere near a comprehensive list of my issues with Jerry's coaching, but its a start. For you new guys around here, please, prove me wrong. I welcome the disagreement and discussion. I miss the good old days when we had real discussions on the board instead of just name calling contests. Please, let me have it!

[Six_Fore]

I wasn't trying to come across with a "blind faith" "Jerry knows best" attitude. That's was just a small part of my opinion. I do respect Jerry for some of the things he has done and yes, I do think he has earned respect. But where is my main point homeristic or idiotic? Is it not true that Jerry took an entirely new roster to the WCF in 3 years? I can think of very few franchises that lost key players that were able to turn it around and get back in the playoffs in a very short amount of time...

Example, the Bulls are still trying to regain glory. My point, at least my main point was to show something great the Jerry has done for this franchise. I don't follow his every move blindly. In fact I stated that I hate his in game coaching decision sometimes, most recently with Boozer. However, how can you honestly say Jerry hasn't earned his?

What is he, 4th on the list for all time wins. He's had ONE losing season in 20 years has head coach. And he hasn

[kebutah]

If all we ever want to do is settle for making the playoffs with a 50% first round exit regardless of who has the better record then Sloan is the guy. I thought the objective of any sport was to win the title, not look good in the rgular season. We console ourselves with a good regular season not set it as our goal Sloan excels at the regular season when other teams have less time to prepare for his predictabilty, not in the playoffs when adjustments are critical in a longer series.

[Racer X]

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In 96-97 Stockton's knee needed repair
In 97-98 Stockton was rehabbing repaired knee
If your to young to remember why Stocktons minutes were reduced, you should not be using them as an example of Sloans "poor coaching". It would be better to just use the Sloan sucks approach.

WE WERE IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!! THERE IS NOTHING BEYOND THAT TO PLAY FOR!!!!!!! STOCKTON WOULD HAVE HAD MONTHS OF TIME TO REST LITERALLY 2 WEEKS LATER!!!!!!!!!!! That is a HORRIBLE excuse. If you are TOO (not to) far up Sloan's @$$ to admit any wrong doing on his part that you should stop posting threads like this.

2 MINUTES!!!!!! 2 MINUTES MORE A GAME!!!!!!! Would that not have had a positive impact on those games that we lost by 2 mofning points?

[Malone Strong]

Its been a while since the forum was this interesting. FINALLY the good old battles are being fought again.

When you prove a player is legendary, you must back it up with one of three things: 1) Won a championship(s) 2)Decorated with individual acheivements (all-star apprearances, record holder, DPOY, MVP, etc) 3) Entertainment factor (Pistol's flash, Ice-man's patented flip-finger roll...


Coaches, largely, are determined to be great using those same three factors. Lets see how Sloan fairs:

1) Zero Championships. He made the Finals twice, but this does not push a coach to legendary status. Heck, Sloan is in company with Byron Scott...and we all know what a great coach Byron is

2) Zero coach of the year awards. ZERO...in 21 YEARS! If he were so great, dont you think he could have gotten ONE? Especially having had two guys that broke multiple records and were staples at their positions for 18 years without injuries? I mean, Malone only missed 4 games due to injury before he left for the Lakers. Imagine how many rings the Lakers would have had if Shaq had been that healthy, or David Robinson for the Spurs...and Sloan can't get ONE coach of the year award?

3) Entertainment Factor: See, believe it or not, this is the thing I enjoy about Sloan, and I think it defines his legacy. He's a bitter, mean, grumpy old man. He yells and curses and swears at his players and the officials, and he always relentlessy bullies his players. This is how the league knows him, and its basically the only thing worth mentioning him for....

Well, there it is. He may not have gotten us rings or COTY awards, but it has been funny to see mothers in the close rows cover their sons' ears and players like Ostertag and Giricek rebel against their warden, I must say it was funny to see Sloan be rude to the media after games and interrupt their questions. Lets give it up for the mean old bastard, we're lucky to have him!!

[sodapop]

It seems like every year we get a few new posters (who usually disappear by season's end) who come in here and start throwing around the whole, "Sloan knows more basketball than you do card, or the "He's earned it" card, or, my favorite. "we're lucky to have him!"

Sloans not perfect, no coach is. I am sure it will be easy to replace him with one of the many fans who knows more than he does. I'm not new, I stopped posting when every thread here was taken over by Sloan haters. Our current team has problems at times making a basket. Sloan has never been against the three point shot when he has players that make them. I thought CJ and Brewer played at the two lately? Hart has averaged a little more than 12 minutes a game and Williams has averaged 37. That's about one minute when both are on the floor. That's one consistent thing about Sloan haters, they take something someone else said and repeat it as fact, without checking.

What has Sloan earned? The respect of players and coaches worldwide. Fans of the Jazz have a worse opinion of him, than fans of other teams. Sloan has earned everything except a championship, just like the 95% of his peers. But not winning the championship is not all on his shoulders, MJ's rise and Sterns building a dynasty around him had something to do with it. Stockton, Malone and Hornacek also had something to do with it. It's shallow to dismiss his accomplishments, but only to dwell on something that he was only partly to blame for. The fourth winningest coach in the history of the game gave us the best chance to get to the finals, and he is still our best chance, like it or not. I find it ironic that the same people who point out us not winning a championship blame it on Sloan, and then say he had the two of the better players in Stockton and Malone, yet they never give them part of the blame. It's a good example of the blind hate for Sloan that some feel.

If your talking about the '98 team that lost to MJ do you think the league would of let him leave the game as a loser? Jordan admitted to pushing off and a 5 point turn on two bad calls in the final minutes decided that championship. But let's blame Sloan. If your talking about the 98-99 team that lost the short season, then your forgetting Stockton was injured when Webber decided he was going to "end his career". Playing Portland with a healthy Stockton would probably of made a difference.

Since Sloan took over only 6 teams have won championships, and only 5 coaches. If your goal is to win a championship then you need a coach that gives you the best chance to get there. Sloan with 17 playoff appearances in his career is your best chance. The Rileys, Jacksons, Popovitches are not coming to coach here. Sorry.

[Malone Strong]

[quote="sodapop"][/quote]

LOL so you'd rather blame conspiracy theories and the state of Utah than Jerry Sloan? That's a first ...where did the homers dig you up??

[sodapop]

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WE WERE IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!! THERE IS NOTHING BEYOND THAT TO PLAY FOR!!!!!!! STOCKTON WOULD HAVE HAD MONTHS OF TIME TO REST LITERALLY 2 WEEKS LATER!!!!!!!!!!! That is a HORRIBLE excuse. If you are TOO (not to) far up Sloan's @$$ to admit any wrong doing on his part that you should stop posting threads like this.

2 MINUTES!!!!!! 2 MINUTES MORE A GAME!!!!!!! Would that not have had a positive impact on those games that we lost by 2 mofning points?

I didn't post the thread, you did.

[sodapop]

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LOL so you'd rather blame conspiracy theories and the state of Utah than Jerry Sloan? That's a first ...where did the homers dig you up??

Ahhh yes, your witty banter and use of facts to support a position in a deep and meaningful discussion is still razor sharp.

[sodapop]

:rofl: Its been a while since the forum was this interesting. FINALLY the good old battles are being fought again.

When you prove a player is legendary, you must back it up with one of three things: 1) Won a championship(s)

Sorry I was writing my post when you posted this. According to you Stockton and Malone were not legendary, therefore Sloan never had a chance of winning a championship. He never had good legendary players.

[isrred]

80% of NBA coaches, 60% of College Coaches (despite their usual crappiness in transferring to the pros), and 30% of the posters on this board could have won a championship with stockton and malone, and "legendary" Jerry Sloan won 0...However, I usually support Sloan. But the longer he stays in Utah the more I start to believe that its time for Jerry to go ride his John Deer and the Jazz to move on. I don't think I could ever get myself to call Jerry a bad coach a la some posters here, however I do believe that it's probably time for the Jazz to try something different. Although that won't happen because Larry Miller is too soft and needs to grow a pair.

EDIT= spelling