Official Bargnani Discussion Thread

[supersub15]

-must put forth more effort in practise, games

[wille-dynamite]

Why was Bargs drafted by the Raptors with the number one overall pick to begin with?[/quote]

Global Marketing Appeal ala Yoa Ming. That is the only reason I could think of as to why drafted a wus to play center.

[The Notic]

I would say this: The longer term projections are usually the result of more solid aspects of a player's potential, largely physical ability.

Whereas a good run, especially a good playoff/tourney run, can be affected by so many more variables which won't be sustained: matchups, teammates, health, getting 'hot', etc.

But the other aspect I find happens is that the Top Guys will have unrealistic TEAM expectations put on them. Precious few of the best NBA players won NCAA Championships. Many, like Duncan, were considered to belong to disappointing teams in that respect. But imo that is an almost insane standard to hold them to. There are SO many NCAA teams, and SO many factors which affect how a team plays, most of them having nothing to do with the individual player himself.

I understand all this. But you are not applying the ridiculous amount of variables that could propel a prospects stock to the amount of variables of why a team might pick one player over another. In fact, your implying some sort of causal relationship between poor TEAM tournament runs, and lowering of a players stock without looking at context.

The funny thing is Andrew Bogut had a poor/average tournament run and he STILL was the #1 pick in the SAME draft further reinforcing my point of a case of no concrete rule existing amongst GM's in terms of play and rather is mitigated by team need/potential ie. the normal factors used to judge a prospect.


I pretty much agree with the rest of the post re: unrealistic team expectations on young prospects.

[Hendrix]

At this point he might get a little better, but I don't see him getting much better. They were just talking about him on hoops, and basically saying he knows he has to get better at it, Smitch has told him he hs to get better at it yada yada ya.

If you know you have to get better at something and arn't making any effort to get better at it, or show it then it's obviously not sinking in, or he doesn't care. I dunno but I've stuck up for him for a long time, I think he'll be a solid player in the league. But he has to actually do it, instead of saying " I know I need to rebound better".

A good chunk of rebounding is effort. I've seen the ball drop right in front of him, and he still goes after it half ass.

[J Dilla]

I think the expectations are too high for Andrea Bargnani. What you see is what you get. Look for his Treviso videos on youtube, and you'll see that he was mainly a jumpshooter with 0 post skills. You could just tell he's not a rebounder or a pure C.

I think people are pissed off because of the growth of Rudy, Roy, and Lamarcus while our man Andrea has done nothing. Big big mistake by Stupidzio Retardini and BC.

[The Notic]

I think the expectations are too high for Andrea Bargnani. What you see is what you get. Look for his Treviso videos on youtube, and you'll see that he was mainly a jumpshooter with 0 post skills. You could just tell he's not a rebounder or a pure C.

I think people are pissed off because of the growth of Rudy, Roy, and Lamarcus while our man Andrea has done nothing. Big big mistake by Stupidzio Retardini and BC.

Ironically, I had little expectations for this post. I think anyone who does expect anything insightful or informative from you should realize that what you see is what you get: a crappy poster who is a borderline troll.

I'm just pissed you haven't been waived yet.

[WD-40]

Big big mistake by Stupidzio Retardini and BC.

[Komodo]

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What?

[Paperclip]

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What?

i think supersub is concerned for a young player who is clearly struggling, the effort should atleast be there to work out of it.

[PharoaheMonch]

How long before we see a candid Bosh video made by fans at some random parking lot..where Chris goes "ship his a$$ out!"

[supersub15]

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What?

You'd assume that a struggling player with high expectations is already putting MAX effort to improve and get out of his funk.

This is a very worrying sentence. Especially, that it is coming from the mentor.

Again,

[carlosrogers34]

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You'd assume that a struggling player with high expectations is already putting MAX effort to improve and get out of his funk.

This is a very worrying sentence. Especially, that it is coming from the mentor.

Again,

He said he'd like to see consistent aggressiveness out of Andrea in games and in practice. Says Andrea does it now but has to develop the mentality of being that way all the time. Reminds me of comments by Mitchell about Bosh a few years ago.

[RapsBulls4evr]

I don't understand you guys. Are you that closed-minded?? What's these crazy threads supposed to do anyways? Tell us of how wrong BC was for drafting Andrea? That he's a bust? We should have drafted LMA? ROY? What's the intention behind all these ramblings? We are well aware, including BC of Barg's weaknesses even when he was initially drafted.

You guys need to understand something important. Andrea is not an American, he's Italian. He grew up playing basketball in Europe. He's naturally gifted as an offensive scorer. Playing in Europe, it's way different than playing here. All of Italy can testify that Bargs is a very good basketball player... so please don't even compare him to Hoffa, as your just displaying your incompetence and stupidity or should I say homerism.

Europe is way different than playing in the NBA, understand that?? I hope so.

All I see is what most people see (at least some)... haters and agenda driven posters. The topic itself is silly and premature, how can you possibly compare Bargs to any of those players? Bargs is in his second year in the NBA. He thrives in his potential to score with ease, and has grown up with a natural mindset of a scorer.

Just put yourselves in his shoes for a minute.

You're in the NBA Draft, growing up with an offensive scoring mindset, in your second year... your told to change everything your used to in THE best basketball league in the world, and all this within your second year in the league!

What would YOU do? Do you honestly believe that you would have faired better than Andrea? He's used to play farther away from the rim, and now he has to play around the basket, grab rebounds (mind you, that's not his game), AND improve upon his first and successful year playing a completely different game.

It's been just over 30 games into the season, along the way baring nagging injuries, and is expected to get used to playing Center, something he's not used to do, what in God's green earth do you people expect?? For him to be putting up numbers that of centers born in North America or Athletic and skilled in that particular aspect of the game? (rebounding).

He's been throw a lot of pressure, he's the number one freaken pick, you don't think he knows that? He's in his "second year", give him TIME to adjust not just to the NBA in general, but to playing a whole new position.

Some people just DO NOT like Andrea's game which is understandable, and would rather have LMA, Roy, Gay, etc... which we understand. But have any of those guys been asked to completely change their game?

Blah, blah... I can type paragraphs all in vain as people won't even read and focus on their "agendas", and just bitch.

In short:

1. He's learning a new position.

2. Over 30 games into the new season and his first shot at learning the new position.

3. Everyone clearly knows Andrea is unlike anything that is a Hoffa, and is not a bust. Pure stupidity on the "haters" part.

4. INJURIES.

He's a young and talented offensive player... GIVE HIM TIME for crying out loud instead of all this bitching and hate I see. A freaken board filled mostly with Andrea threads made by closed minded people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, nor do they even have a point... "the worst rebounder in the league"?? So what?? Give him time, if that's your "point", we get it... but reserve your judgement and give him time, we will see what happens next season and the next based on the predicament he's in and everything he has had to go threw.

Then again, that may be to much to ask to a typical Raptor fan.

[torontoaces04]

I love the paint. PAINTING BY #'S. My name is Andrea Bargnani, and I can't grab a rebound.

[Prop]

what is all the nonsense about so-called "agenda driven posters"? so what, if you pick a side for or against a certain player or something and stick to it you have an "agenda" now? an agenda to do what? continue to state your opinion on a certain topic? sway other posters? influence roster changes through the power of the realgm message board? lmao...come on guys.

[I-AM-A-BEAST]

How long before we see a candid Bosh video made by fans at some random parking lot..where Chris goes "ship his a$$ out!"

But seriously, the thing that scares me the most about Bargs, is the shocking lack of effort he seems to show when rebounding.

There are tons of reasons why fundamentally and physically, Bargs is a horrible rebounder (terrible instincts and timing, weak vertical and second leaper, gets caught watching the ball and not boxing out etc.). But the thing that I think hurts him so badly is the complete lack of hustle and effort evident. It's almost as if he doesn't view it as his job and responsibility as a player.

This is, IMO, completely unacceptable for a young player trying to prove his worth in this league.

[J Dilla]

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Ironically, I had little expectations for this post. I think anyone who does expect anything insightful or informative from you should realize that what you see is what you get: a crappy poster who is a borderline troll.

I'm just pissed you haven't been waived yet.

Im sorry that I offended you by criticizing Andrea Bargnani.

[El Presidente]

I don't understand you guys. Are you that closed-minded?? What's these crazy threads supposed to do anyways? Tell us of how wrong BC was for drafting Andrea? That he's a bust? We should have drafted LMA? ROY? What's the intention behind all these ramblings? We are well aware, including BC of Barg's weaknesses even when he was initially drafted.

You guys need to understand something important. Andrea is not an American, he's Italian. He grew up playing basketball in Europe. He's naturally gifted as an offensive scorer. Playing in Europe, it's way different than playing here. All of Italy can testify that Bargs is a very good basketball player... so please don't even compare him to Hoffa, as your just displaying your incompetence and stupidity or should I say homerism.

Europe is way different than playing in the NBA, understand that?? I hope so.

All I see is what most people see (at least some)... haters and agenda driven posters. The topic itself is silly and premature, how can you possibly compare Bargs to any of those players? Bargs is in his second year in the NBA. He thrives in his potential to score with ease, and has grown up with a natural mindset of a scorer.

Just put yourselves in his shoes for a minute.

You're in the NBA Draft, growing up with an offensive scoring mindset, in your second year... your told to change everything your used to in THE best basketball league in the world, and all this within your second year in the league!

What would YOU do? Do you honestly believe that you would have faired better than Andrea? He's used to play farther away from the rim, and now he has to play around the basket, grab rebounds (mind you, that's not his game), AND improve upon his first and successful year playing a completely different game.

It's been just over 30 games into the season, along the way baring nagging injuries, and is expected to get used to playing Center, something he's not used to do, what in God's green earth do you people expect?? For him to be putting up numbers that of centers born in North America or Athletic and skilled in that particular aspect of the game? (rebounding).

He's been throw a lot of pressure, he's the number one freaken pick, you don't think he knows that? He's in his "second year", give him TIME to adjust not just to the NBA in general, but to playing a whole new position.

Some people just DO NOT like Andrea's game which is understandable, and would rather have LMA, Roy, Gay, etc... which we understand. But have any of those guys been asked to completely change their game?

Blah, blah... I can type paragraphs all in vain as people won't even read and focus on their "agendas", and just bitch.

In short:

1. He's learning a new position.

2. Over 30 games into the new season and his first shot at learning the new position.

3. Everyone clearly knows Andrea is unlike anything that is a Hoffa, and is not a bust. Pure stupidity on the "haters" part.

4. INJURIES.

He's a young and talented offensive player... GIVE HIM TIME for crying out loud instead of all this bitching and hate I see. A freaken board filled mostly with Andrea threads made by closed minded people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, nor do they even have a point... "the worst rebounder in the league"?? So what?? Give him time, if that's your "point", we get it... but reserve your judgement and give him time, we will see what happens next season and the next based on the predicament he's in and everything he has had to go threw.

Then again, that may be to much to ask to a typical Raptor fan.

Sure, I agree with you but that might be entirely because you're an Arsenal supporter.

Seriously though, I think many of the posters with even average intelligence on the board agree with a lot of what you're saying except they're not convinced that they see the skill and desire that you're assuming he has. Yes, he's inexperienced and young but you don't need to be a veteran to play with a little intensity and hunger.

[illestplaya]

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It is difficult to reamain angry with you Harry. But I have told you before that charm does get you into trouble.

no homo lol

[RapsBulls4evr]

what is all the nonsense about so-called "agenda driven posters"? so what, if you pick a side for or against a certain player or something and stick to it you have an "agenda" now? an agenda to do what? continue to state your opinion on a certain topic? sway other posters? influence roster changes through the power of the realgm message board? lmao...come on guys.

These so called "agenda-driven" posters are posters who regardless of what whether the team wins or not, they will target a specific player and rip a certain weakness that we all know, EVEN if that player played "out of this world". That's ludicrous, and I don't understand the logic in that... the only word that comes to mind is haters.