Add some Brotherly love to the 3-way between Kirk & Nene

[basketbob]

Trade ID 4401978

Toyin' with the Hinrich to Denver concept. Very messy because of KH's BYC status, but this works. It's likely that the guys I'm having Chicago 'throw in' to make this deal work have value I don't know about.
Any suggestions about picks to even things out, etc... are welcome. I'm all ears. I'm a pretty casual Denver fan who has taken up toying with the trade checker for no apparent reason. 2nd ever post, so please be kind.

PHI
trades A Miller
receives C Duhon, E Najera (both expiring, but possible keepers)

(here's where it gets messy)

CHI
trades [Hinrich, Duhon, Joe Smith, Khryapa, Sefolosha, Griffin and Gray
receives A Miller, Nene, JR Smith, Atkins and Von Wafer

DEN
trades Nene, JRSmith, Najera, Atkins and Wafer
receives Hinrich, Joe Smith, Khryapa, Sefolosha, Griffin and Gray

Almost as interesting to me as AI-Hinrich pairing would be watching Dre-JR reunion. I have a strong feeling that a big part of the difference between JR before and after the AI trade is the absence of Miller. I would think the deal's big enough and JR's contract short enough for Paxson to risk looking foolish for taking him back after trading him for peanuts.

[joey-A]

Philly MIGHT trade the likes of Evans, and Green for just ending C's. But what in Gods green earth makes you think they will trade a Great Vet PG for that trash ?

[basketbob]

Their record. Louis Williams. Elton Brand.

Like I said, throw some picks around.... and try to be nice to the new guy.

[joey-A]

That's my point. Why move a valuable player like Miller who plays the hardest position in the league to fill when they can keep him, move Evans & Green's deals, and then have more than enough to still offer Brand if he does opt-out. Which he will I'm sure. As for Lou Williams. If you watch any sixer games this year you would know that it looks as if they are going to keep Lou as an off the bench scoring guard, rather than a true PG, and groom him to replace Miller. This is why Green is expendable. Cause they know Williams can take his spot. You don't deal Miller for just ending C's. If good enough 1st rounders were included, maybe. but not unless they are added.

[schaffy]

That's my point. Why move a valuable player like Miller who plays the hardest position in the league to fill when they can keep him, move Evans & Green's deals, and then have more than enough to still offer Brand if he does opt-out. Which he will I'm sure. As for Lou Williams. If you watch any sixer games this year you would know that it looks as if they are going to keep Lou as an off the bench scoring guard, rather than a true PG, and groom him to replace Miller. This is why Green is expendable. Cause they know Williams can take his spot. You don't deal Miller for just ending C's. If good enough 1st rounders were included, maybe. but not unless they are added.

The problem is Evans and Green are not NEARLY as attractive in a trade. If I am not mistaken, they both have 4 year deals. If is very unlikely you will get anyone to give you expiring contract for either one.

[The Rebel]

That is way too much for Denver to give up for Hinrich and filler

[joey-A]

You're crazy to think that. Reggie Evans may not be a fir for Philly cause they must have a dominate inside player who commands double teams to assist Dalembert. Evans is not it. However that is not to say reggie would not be extremely valuable to teams who need Rebounding & toughness to go along with a team who already has that dominate inside force. Orlando has been mentioned alot here. He would be more than perfect for them cause when Dwight gets doubled, they have no other players who are even " Average " rebounders. As for Green, he's a very good scorer and athlete. As a starter I would agree he's not the man. but as a off the bench instant scorer, he would be very nice. And people act as IF Green makes a ton of money. He makes 3 million per year. There are about 50 other guards who make more than he does, and don't come close to his scoring ability, and athleticism. Detroit has been mentioned in getting Green. As has Boston. But they don't have the ending contracts that Philly would want. But trust me, both are very moveable. And in Evans case, he's extremely valuable to alot of teams.

[schaffy]

You're crazy to think that. Reggie Evans may not be a fir for Philly cause they must have a dominate inside player who commands double teams to assist Dalembert. Evans is not it. However that is not to say reggie would not be extremely valuable to teams who need Rebounding & toughness to go along with a team who already has that dominate inside force. Orlando has been mentioned alot here. He would be more than perfect for them cause when Dwight gets doubled, they have no other players who are even " Average " rebounders. As for Green, he's a very good scorer and athlete. As a starter I would agree he's not the man. but as a off the bench instant scorer, he would be very nice. And people act as IF Green makes a ton of money. He makes 3 million per year. There are about 50 other guards who make more than he does, and don't come close to his scoring ability, and athleticism. Detroit has been mentioned in getting Green. As has Boston. But they don't have the ending contracts that Philly would want. But trust me, both are very moveable. And in Evans case, he's extremely valuable to alot of teams.

When Dwight gets doubled he needs someone who can hit the outside shot, which they have. That doesn't even make sense. Yes, Evans is a good rebounder and would work well next to Dwight. I will agree that Orlando does not have many good rebounder's besides DH.

And there is the other problem. Yes, Green has his uses. Det and Bos would both like to strengthen their benches. And I know Det has expiring contract. Those are just more valuable as expiring contract than Willie would be coming off the bench. Very few teams in the league would trade an expiring contract for a guy with a 4 year contract. And an athletic 6'4 undersized shooting guard really isnt very hard to find. Most teams in the league have at least one guy like that, some have more.

[basketbob]

That is way too much for Denver to give up for Hinrich and filler

Seems to me Joe Smith rates as more than filler. ...and that JR Smith and his coach have combined to reduce (return?) his value to "really tempting filler" or something like that. I wish it weren't so, but if you're in "win now mode" -- as the ages of Camby and AI suggest they should be -- then you've gotta factor in present perception of the value of your players -- especially Karl's perception, and the effect that has on others' perception.
Hinrich, still quite young, has a much better track record of fulfilling his potential, rather than flashing it, the way Nene and JRS have. Nene's the biggest wild card here. Have injuries merely delayed the breakout he appeared to be having, or is he "injury prone" and bound to break down before he consistently realizes his vast potential? Again, if you're dealing now, you're dealing both possibilities --- and a hefty contract.

[youngcrev]

Well, the Sixers definitely need a 1st round pick or 2 here. If all they wanted for Miller was expiring contracts, it would have happened a long time ago.

I made a very similar deal to this a little while back.

My suggestions would be to remove Gray, Thabo and Smith, while adding a protected pick via Chicago to Philadelphia. The Bulls already traded JR to Denver for 2 2nds before ever even letting him see the court, so I can't imagine they'd want him now all of a sudden.

Final outlook on rosters:

pg Kirk Hinrich l Anthony Carter
sg Allen Iverson l JR Smith
sf Carmelo Anthony l Linas Kleiza
pf Kenyon Martin l Joe Smith
c Marcus Camby l Steven Hunter

pg Andre Miller l Chucky Atkins
sg Ben Gordon l Thabo Sefolosha
sf Luol Deng l Andres Nocioni
pf Nene l Tyrus Thomas
c Ben Wallace l Joakim Noah

pg Chris Duhon l Lou Williams
sg Willie Green l Gordon Giricek
sf Andre Iguodala l Thad Young
pf Reggie Evans l Eduardo Najera
c Sam Dalembert l Jason Smith

[bullzman23]

I can't see the Bulls being too interested in Nene while Wallace is still here. The front-court problem isn't as bad as people think. The Bulls' main problem is that they have too many guys and not enough minutes. Thomas, Noah, and Gray all look like really good players, unfortunately they're having trouble beating out Smith and Wallace. Smith has played well, and honestly I'd prefer him to Nene at least for the time being. I don't think Nene is a great fit in Chicago and doesn't do anything to create PT for the young guys.

[coldfish]

That's pretty bad for Chicago. We like Gray and Smith. Thabo is just a second year player. Obviously we like Hinrich. We really don't want another middling PF, especially one making big bucks while Wallace is here.

Essentially Chicago trades 4 players we like for 1 we don't + filler.

[Econgrad]

I can't see the Bulls being too interested in Nene while Wallace is still here. The front-court problem isn't as bad as people think. The Bulls' main problem is that they have too many guys and not enough minutes. Thomas, Noah, and Gray all look like really good players, unfortunately they're having trouble beating out Smith and Wallace. Smith has played well, and honestly I'd prefer him to Nene at least for the time being. I don't think Nene is a great fit in Chicago and doesn't do anything to create PT for the young guys.

The frontcourt problem is that they have too many guys who can't score. Joe Smith is the only one who has anything that resembles an offensive repertoire.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

-= original quote snipped =-



The frontcourt problem is that they have too many guys who can't score. Joe Smith is the only one who has anything that resembles an offensive repertoire.

Actually Gray can score quite well, just in limited minutes. But we give him up for a guy who isn't really all that good of a scorer. Better than Gray, but more expensive. Plus Gray is young with upside. In otherwords, not worth the cost. In fact we've given up Smith in this deal as well. Nocioni can kind of score too, even though he does it from the outsideand is a chucker.

So this trade somehow downgrades our front court scoring.

If the Bulls could dump Wallace, they'd have three scorers(Smith,Nocioni, and two defenders in their frontcourt. It would be balanced. If they dumped Nocioni, it wouldn't be quite as balanced as far as offense goes, but they'd actually be able to give their young guys some playing time. Young guys who haven't had the opportunity to develop an offensive game, but at the least are potentially game changing defenders. Also, they'd have players playing in position.

The problem is lack of scoring in general. A big scoring SG would do just as much for the Bulls offense as another average scoring front court player like Nene.

[Cliff Levingston]

The problem with this trade is that the principle idea of Hinrich for Nene is a bad one. The Bulls need to clear out a veteran in the front court (Nocioni or Wallace) before they add one, and they need more help in the back court, not less (although Andre Miller is a good player).

[Friend_Of_Haley]

The problem with this trade is that the principle idea of Hinrich for Nene is a bad one. The Bulls need to clear out a veteran in the front court (Nocioni or Wallace) before they add one, and they need more help in the back court, not less (although Andre Miller is a good player).

As always, Cliff Levingston speaks the truth.

[coldfish]

The problem with this trade is that the principle idea of Hinrich for Nene is a bad one. The Bulls need to clear out a veteran in the front court (Nocioni or Wallace) before they add one, and they need more help in the back court, not less (although Andre Miller is a good player).

Since Nocioni is also BYC, he is really hard to move with Hinrich. Realistically, the best trades for Chicago would be:

Wallace + Hinrich for big guard who can play at the point + shorter contracts
Wallace + Nocioni for big guard + shorter contracts
Nocioni + Duhon for big guard + filler
Wallace + Tyrus or Noah + Nocioni for quality big man + filler