The sparkplug off the bench - Garcia or Douby?

sackings916 · Post #1 » by **sackings916** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:57 am

When healthy, I dont think there's enough room for both of these guys, especially with the emergence of Salmons. If the Kings have to make a decision, who do you think they go with? Cisco has def shown more so far, but I think Douby's ceiling is higher and that the Kings are still real high on him. I think Francisco is the more versatile player and can do more things, but if Douby can reach his potential he can be a great scorer off the bench who can also be a pesk for other PGs with his speed and length. Cisco is becoming a deadly shooter, he hustles,plays D and shows a lot more heart/passion than Douby, but I think Salmons here puts Cisco at a disadvantage. I vote for Douby on this one.

Post #2 » by **Wolfay** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:41 am

Douby is close to his ceiling, pretty much all he can improve on is his FG%. He won't be a PG or the combo guard people want him to be, he just doesn't have the versatility. Everything Douby can do, Garcia can do and usually better, and Garcia can do many other things Douby can never do.

I don't understand why people are so high on Douby, given what little he has shown. 2 or 3 good games with 10 bad ones in between does little for me.

sackings916 · Post #3 » by **sackings916** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:00 pm

Wolfay wrote:Douby is close to his ceiling, pretty much all he can improve on is his FG%. He won't be a PG or the combo guard people want him to be, he just doesn't have the versatility. Everything Douby can do, Garcia can do and usually better, and Garcia can do many other things Douby can never do.

I don't understand why people are so high on Douby, given what little he has shown. 2 or 3 good games with 10 bad ones in between does little for me.

I dont know how you can make this claim. Douby is 23 years old and in his 2nd year. He has barely gotten a chance yet you say he is close to his ceiling. He is going to continue to grow as a player with PT and a couple more offseasons. Improving his decision making, ballhandling and just getting comfortable on the floor in general will make will make him a much better player. You say he doesn't have the versatility to be a combo guard, but he has already shown the potential to score in a variety of ways - catch and shoot,pull ups, off the dribble, off screens,runners, floaters - he just needs to adjust to the speed of the game in the NBA.

And Francisco is nowhere near the one on one player Douby can be. Not even close. Douby can create his own shot from nothing, Cisco needs screens. Cisco is a much more complete player overall than Douby though.

I think Cisco is a LOT closer to his ceiling than Douby. in fact I dont see Cisco getting a lot better than what he is now. He is already a pretty good player on both ends and has improved a lot since his rookie year.

Bac2Basics · Post #4 » by **Bac2Basics** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:30 pm

Douby's still got alot of ceiling left but Garcia's much further along.

I think we can still have room for both of them, but I think once Douby develops some more, he might be more useful as a trade piece than as permanent long term piece of the Kings future rotation.

SacKingZZZ · Post #5 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:25 pm

There is no questiont that there isn't room for both of them when healthy as a team. Douby will most certainly be cut out almost entirely and Cisco will see a dramatic cut as well. Or Theus goes with a sporadic possession by possession lineup that just pisses everyone off. See: Grizzlies under Fratello.

Post #6 » by **pillwenney** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:25 pm

I agree that Douby still has room to grow. He has great instincts, but his basketball IQ still needs some work (probably due in part to him starting organized ball so late). And if he can get his shot to where it was at Rutgers he can be a fantastic off the bench player.

I would prefer to keep both, but we'll see. I would also be willing to trade both, because as I've said before, if Geoff can get a late 1st he can draft a Douby or Garcia in his sleep.

deNIEd · Post #7 » by **deNIEd** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:57 pm

Bibby has to goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Post #8 » by **Wolfay** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:32 pm

I'm not going to argue this much because I'm really grumpy about a couple of things, but I'll say a few things.

sackings916 wrote:I dont know how you can make this claim. Douby is 23 years old and in his 2nd year. He has barely gotten a chance yet you say he is close to his ceiling. He is going to continue to grow as a player with PT and a couple more offseasons. Improving his decision making, ballhandling and just getting comfortable on the floor in general will make will make him a much better player. You say he doesn't have the versatility to be a combo guard, but he has already shown the potential to score in a variety of ways - catch and shoot,pull ups, off the dribble, off screens,runners, floaters - he just needs to adjust to the speed of the game in the NBA.

In terms of versatility, I meant the ability to play different positions and in different ways, not just being able to have different offensive moves. Garcia is effective at the 1,2, and 3, whereas realistically Douby is only effective at the 2. Your ceiling can only be so high when your versatility is limited to only scoring the ball.

And Francisco is nowhere near the one on one player Douby can be. Not even close. Douby can create his own shot from nothing, Cisco needs screens. Cisco is a much more complete player overall than Douby though.

This one made me laugh. Douby can create his own shot? I've rarely seen a shot go anywhere near the basket, let alone him even try to create a shot. I've Douby spot shoot more than everybody else on the team. Hardly "creating" a shot, but more like, "chuck the ball from where you are and pray to God it goes in so you can get more PT". 2 guards like Douby are a dime a dozen my friend.

Maybe I'm just a tough critic, but I haven't been as impressed with Douby as some of you. He might turn out to be a solid 2 guard, but I don't see how he'll be anything more than just solid or good.

_SRV_ · Post #9 » by **_SRV_** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:40 pm

I have a lot of hope in Douby, his trademark was his jumpshot, but right now he's contributing manily be slashing and defending, when he gets his jumpshot back, and learn few stuff from the coaching staff ala Martin, he'll be very good option.
Going off of history of this team, both are needed, but in case of healthy roster one of them will be under utilized.
Right now Garcia is the better player, with a healthy margin, but Garcia is much older, and in his 3rd year.

a-rod · Post #10 » by **a-rod** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:11 pm

_SRV_ wrote:I have a lot of hope in Douby, his trademark was his jumpshot, but right now he's contributing manily be slashing and defending, when he gets his jumpshot back, and learn few stuff from the coaching staff ala Martin, he'll be very good option.
Going off of history of this team, both are needed, but in case of healthy roster one of them will be under utilized.
Right now Garcia is the better player, with a healthy margin, but Garcia is much older, and in his 3rd year.

Douby proved that he can defended the SG Position with that great wing span, so he well not struggle against bigger SG, because that was my biggest concern. and i think his jumpshot is fine he
just needs to learn to shoot over bigger SG, play off his teammates,
and take what the defense give him and not force the issue.

Douby is combo guard, great defender, good slasher, good shooter. sound like a booby jackson to me.

sackings916 · Post #11 » by **sackings916** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:28 pm

Wolfay wrote:I'm not going to argue this much because I'm really grumpy about a couple of things, but I'll say a few things.

-= original quote snipped =-

This one made me laugh. Douby can create his own shot? I've rarely seen a shot go anywhere near the basket, let alone him even try to create a shot. I've Douby spot shoot more than everybody else on the team. Hardly "creating" a shot, but more like, "chuck the ball from where you are and pray to God it goes in so you can get more PT". 2 guards like Douby are a dime a dozen my friend.

Maybe I'm just a tough critic, but I haven't been as impressed with Douby as some of you. He might turn out to be a solid 2 guard, but I don't see how he'll be anything more than just solid or good.

thats funny that it made you laugh..you're a funny guy. i know what you meant and if you read my first post I said Garcia can do more things and was the more complete player. The reason you dont see Douby's potential is because you're being close minded and just want results now. And for you to say you've rarely seen Douby create his own shot - what have you been watching? Did you watch the Memphis game? Who with 20 seconds left down 3 did Theus call the play for? Douby - and he told him to create off the dribble at the top of the key which he did and was successful. The game @ Chicago, Douby created his own shot several times. If you cant see that you dont have a basketball mind... Garcia gets his points off catch and shoot or off pick and rolls.

And as far as Douby's ceiling, I see him in the role as a Bobby Jackson/Barbosa. A combo guard off the bench who is instant offense. I dont see him as a good starter. I dont think he should be labeled as a 1 or 2 but just as a backup guard. At 6'3 with very long arms he will also be a good defender IMO.

SacTown Kings · Post #12 » by **SacTown Kings** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:16 am

I have not been impressed at all with Douby's offense. which was what he was suppose to be great at. He is playing better now and has looked good offensively in 2 or 3 games but other than those games he has been terrible. However, his defense is better than I thought it would be. So overall he has been ok. I know he knows how to score and his offense will come around eventually, but I don't think he will ever be an effective point guard.

I made numerous arguements on this board that I was against drafting him for this reason. We alreadt had Cisco and Martin and I did not know why we needed to draft a sg. Then all the Douby fans jumped on me saying he is a combo guard and how he can make the transition to pg. Well so far I haven't seen anything close to that. He has not shown he can run an offense and his decision making, floor awareness, time araweness, and his KYP are just terrible. And these are the most important qualities to being an effective pg.

I think Douby can still be a Bobby type player in that he comes off the bench and puts up points. He can still play pg but we would have to run our offense through Brad or Artest, not Douby. Still either Douby, Bibby, or Garcia is gonna have to go. Bibby is one of my favorites but I think he is the one that needs to go.

I like watching Douby play, he is so smooth, his game is sort of old school.

SacKingZZZ · Post #13 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:10 am

SacTown Kings wrote:I have not been impressed at all with Douby's offense. which was what he was suppose to be great at. He is playing better now and has looked good offensively in 2 or 3 games but other than those games he has been terrible. However, his defense is better than I thought it would be. So overall he has been ok. I know he knows how to score and his offense will come around eventually, but I don't think he will ever be an effective point guard.

I made numerous arguements on this board that I was against drafting him for this reason. We alreadt had Cisco and Martin and I did not know why we needed to draft a sg. Then all the Douby fans jumped on me saying he is a combo guard and how he can make the transition to pg. Well so far I haven't seen anything close to that. He has not shown he can run an offense and his decision making, floor awareness, time araweness, and his KYP are just terrible. And these are the most important qualities to being an effective pg.

I think Douby can still be a Bobby type player in that he comes off the bench and puts up points. He can still play pg but we would have to run our offense through Brad or Artest, not Douby. Still either Douby, Bibby, or Garcia is gonna have to go. Bibby is one of my favorites but I think he is the one that needs to go.

I like watching Douby play, he is so smooth, his game is sort of old school.

Getting 8 minutes a game to show your stuff is raw deal bro!!! I can tell the guy has just about every shot in the book with unlimited range, I can't wait until he really gets a chance to sink or swim. One or two mistakes and benchtime is not the right environment for a young player.

SacTown Kings · Post #14 » by **SacTown Kings** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Getting 8 minutes a game to show your stuff is raw deal bro!!! I can tell the guy has just about every shot in the book with unlimited range, I can't wait until he really gets a chance to sink or swim. One or two mistakes and benchtime is not the right environment for a young player.

And 8 minutes is all he'll get if that because he hasn't shown any signs that he can be a pg. And as long as K$ and Garcia around he wont be getting much time at sg as well. I am not questioning hias ability to score, although he hasn't looked good this year, what I question is his ability to play the point effectively.

SacKingZZZ · Post #15 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:33 am

SacTown Kings wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

And 8 minutes is all he'll get if that because he hasn't shown any signs that he can be a pg. And as long as K$ and Garcia around he wont be getting much time at sg as well. I am not questioning hias ability to score, although he hasn't looked good this year, what I question is his ability to play the point effectively.

Like I have said before he isn't a PG but can play there if we use him like we do Bibby. We did the other night and he got us 14 crucial points. The way we play doesn't require a true PG, heck, Beno is only averaging 4-5 apg and he is the "truest" PG we've had in years!

Smills91 · Post #16 » by **Smills91** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:15 pm

Douby...cuz I really think Garcia's gonna be a consistent starter in this league soon.

SacTown Kings · Post #17 » by **SacTown Kings** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:35 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Like I have said before he isn't a PG but can play there if we use him like we do Bibby. We did the other night and he got us 14 crucial points. The way we play doesn't require a true PG, heck, Beno is only averaging 4-5 apg and he is the "truest" PG we've had in years!

We don't require a true pg but we sure as hell look a lot better when we have a true point guard out there. It is much better than watching Douby letting the shot clock expire, making terrible passes, and bad decisions. I just don't like the ball in Doubys hands at all.

Post #18 » by **KF10** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:57 am

IMO Garcia ceiling is an unstable Tay Prince and Douby's ceiling is a Bobby Jackson/Jason Terry type of player IMO....

ZenBaller · Post #19 » by **ZenBaller** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:01 am

Garcia could start in most teams. Huge wingspan, great defender for his position, very good shooter, passer. The guy does everything. All he has to do is be more stable but that's also the coach's responsibility. This year he's been in and out of the lineup constantly. He played PG, now he plays SF.. it's normal not to be stable.

Douby is a trade filler, nothing more. He'll probably end up searching for 10 day contracts some day.

Post #20 » by **pillwenney** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:59 pm

ZenBaller wrote:Garcia could start in most teams. Huge wingspan, great defender for his position, very good shooter, passer. The guy does everything. All he has to do is be more stable but that's also the coach's responsibility. This year he's been in and out of the lineup constantly. He played PG, now he plays SF.. it's normal not to be stable.

Douby is a trade filler, nothing more. He'll probably end up searching for 10 day contracts some day.

You could've said the same thing about Kevin a year and half into his career.