Bargnani: All Skill...No Hustle?

alfie123 · Post #1 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:50 pm

First let me preface this by stating that:
A) I was a huge proponent of this draft by BC
B) I watch a ton of basketball games
C) I havent seen this posted

Ive seen this kid play for a long time now, and it seems as though his career wont be much more than it is due to his lack of sheer ambition and hustle.

While we always cite coaching for poor development, the responsibility must ultimately fall on a player.

Bargnani doesnt have an ounce of hustle in his body and really doesnt like to play the way a player his size should. His refusing to fight and draw contact is almost rediculous. This guy's career will always be defined as having the world of potential and never truly realzing it.

Sad to say as a raptors fan.

Post #2 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:53 pm

You'll enjoy this thread...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=748697

alfie123 · Post #3 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:55 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:You'll enjoy this thread...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=748697

I do, but im talking about his entire career not just rebounding. His play is passive both on offense and defense.

AfricanSensation · Post #4 » by **AfricanSensation** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:59 pm

But he owned the Calliper Test :dontknow:

The_Hater · Post #5 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:02 pm

Other than shooting a basketball, I haven't seen a whole lot of skill yet either.

alfie123 · Post #6 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:03 pm

The_Hater wrote:Other than shooting a basketball, I haven't seen a whole lot of skill yet either.

Im referring to his shooting abilities, driving/handles for a big man, passing skills, decent quickness

Tommy Gun · Post #7 » by **Tommy Gun** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:03 pm

I dont agree. It looks like he tries out there, I just dont think he is anywhere near as good/talented as some have tried to convince themselves that he is.

alfie123 · Post #8 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:05 pm

Tommy Gun wrote:I dont agree. It looks like he tries out there, I just dont think he is anywhere near as good/talented as some have tried to convince themselves that he is.

Yes i also agree with that point, however the fact is that he teases us with a good game here and there

Post #9 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:07 pm

Maybe he'll have a Drazen Petrovic type career, where after he adapted he got more minutes, more confidence and became a scoring machine.

Time will tell. I think we'll be in much better situation to judge him in another 2 years. He does appear listless a lot - I think that he is an offensive player, and if he doesn't get the ball and get going early he gets in a funk that results in the lacklustre effort.

alfie123 · Post #10 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:11 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:Maybe he'll have a Drazen Petrovic type career, where after he adapted he got more minutes, more confidence and became a scoring machine.

Time will tell. I think we'll be in much better situation to judge him in another 2 years. He does appear listless a lot - I think that he is an offensive player, and if he doesn't get the ball and get going early he gets in a funk that results in the lacklustre effort.

Great point, I feel as though his career wont ever amount to what most of us, including possibly BC believed that it would.

Post #11 » by **supersub15** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:15 pm

I won't go that far. He's shown that when he's on his game, he's a game-changer. Problem is consistency. Last game, I saw some nice mid-range game.

I am 99.99% sure that he can average 18 ppg in a season. The problem is that lack of understanding of defensive rotations and help defense and his aversion to rebounding will limit his time on the floor, and hence limit his upside.

These need to be fixed ASAP to at least make him "adequate".

AfricanSensation · Post #12 » by **AfricanSensation** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:17 pm

Speaking of shooting abilities he shot 40% last year and 20% last month.

As for passing skills he ranked 66 out of 70 PF in the league last year in assist ratio

As for handles the guy is out of control, travelling or getting an offensive foul more often than not.

All he has is abilities and potential to develop some skills. People act like he has crazy skills but is just soft, hmm no

Not saying that he can't do nothing, he showed flashes of solid skills, but a lot of work is needed

Kordic27 · Post #13 » by **Kordic27** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:30 pm

Tommy Gun wrote:I dont agree. It looks like he tries out there, I just dont think he is anywhere near as good/talented as some have tried to convince themselves that he is.

I feel as though this is exactly right... maybe Bargs' problem is that he simply isn't that good. Not his fault, not a lack of effort, just a lack a natural skill. He's not a lights out shooter, he seems out of control every time he drives (when he doesn't travel first), he's not crazy athletic, he's a horrible rebounder, and he's a decent at best defender. Most importantly, he hasn't improved.

As for the flashes of ability here and there... I agree with several other posts in several other threads... just about any player in the NBA should be able to put up big points and stats given the minutes and leeway Bargs has been given.

I think the dream is over... I would love to be proven wrong. BC said 5 years, and I think he said this because he knows that there'll be other things to talk about so far down the road.

dagger · Post #14 » by **dagger** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:30 pm

AfricanSensation wrote:Speaking of shooting abilities he shot 40% last year and 20% last month.

As for passing skills he ranked 66 out of 70 PF in the league last year in assist ratio

As for handles the guy is out of control, travelling or getting an offensive foul more often than not.

All he has is abilities and potential to develop some skills. People act like he has crazy skills but is just soft, hmm no

Not saying that he can't do nothing, he showed flashes of solid skills, but a lot of work is needed

Weak, weak argument, but what I expect from you. Taking one month and comparing it to a season? Taking a stat from last year while ignoring stats from last year that were positive.

Shame on you.

For the record, he's 30th in ast/48 minutes among centres. Bosh is 32nd in ast/48 minutes among forwards.

What have you proved? That big men don't get as many assists as point guards?

miruss2001 · Post #15 » by **miruss2001** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:30 pm

Like any young guy, his confidence is fragile. Hustle is a byproduct of confidence... he'll get there.

alfie123 · Post #16 » by **alfie123** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:33 pm

miruss2001 wrote:Like any young guy, his confidence is fragile. Hustle is a byproduct of confidence... he'll get there.

or maybe confidence is a byproduct of hustle

disc0 · Post #17 » by **disc0** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:02 pm

a diamond in the rough, flashes of brilliance but still much work to be done with the kid.

seems like the coaching staff has really been taking it easy on him and so has the rest of the team.

I clearly remember last year, early in the season, when chris bosh flipped out on bargnani's lackadaisical effort. It sparked a fire for bargnani and the team.

What happened to all that fire?

GideonRapfan · Post #18 » by **GideonRapfan** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:08 pm

Maybe this is me making stuff up, but does anyone else get the idea that the tension in the past between Maurizio and Sam may have something to do with AB's perceived stunted learning curve and lack of hustle?

I have no doubt that if anyone in the organization would be making excuses on AB's behalf, MG would be the one. And if anyone has Andrea's ear, it would again be Maurizio. When a player's essential "foster dad" is a member of the senior decision-making process for the team, I could see where that might affect his motivation.

Initially, I would think that MG would be kicking his butt for making him look bad, but then he comes on Chuck's show, and does a soft-shoe shuffle around the issue of Andrea's struggles.

Just based on what we know and have seen and heard from him, I have a lot of trouble believing that Bargnani can be so severely lacking in motivation to become something special, unless he is being enabled, somehow.

Dakar · Post #19 » by **Dakar** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:13 pm

During the Philly game I had a bad premonition that he had the potential to become another Tim Thomas.

Kordic27 · Post #20 » by **Kordic27** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:15 pm

GideonRapfan wrote:Maybe this is me making stuff up, but does anyone else get the idea that the tension in the past between Maurizio and Sam may have something to do with AB's perceived stunted learning curve and lack of hustle?

I have no doubt that if anyone in the organization would be making excuses on AB's behalf, MG would be the one. And if anyone has Andrea's ear, it would again be Maurizio. When a player's essential "foster dad" is a member of the senior decision-making process for the team, I could see where that might affect his motivation.

Initially, I would think that MG would be kicking his butt for making him look bad, but then he comes on Chuck's show, and does a soft-shoe shuffle around the issue of Andrea's struggles.

Just based on what we know and have seen and heard from him, I have a lot of trouble believing that Bargnani can be so severely lacking in motivation to become something special, unless he is being enabled, somehow.

That's a weird hypothesis. If AB would let MG hinder his production or development, or if MG would hinder AB's production or development, they're both world-class morons. I don't however, think that either of these could possibly be true.

More and more, I'm seeing that AB isn't lacking motivation to become great, he lacks the skills.