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What is going on with the Suns?

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DrFunk
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Post#21 » by DrFunk » Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:22 am

That play wasn't anyone's fault. And it still worked out ok because he did went to the FT line. It's not that LB is a selfish player or a ball hog or he dislikes Shawn, he just isn't Nash that can make pass that no one else can see.


Normally I agree with most of your points Mkot but i disagree about LB not being a ballhog. I don't know if you guys saw this change in Barbs but he's gotten the Imthenewkobebryant complex. He was a great secret weapon X off of the bench but I think the turnaround point was when he scored that big buzzer beater vs Chicago a while back and then everyone was so hyped up about him he started believing his own hype.

I'm not saying Barbs is a bad shooter, he's a great one. But his shot selection at times makes me want to toss my comp out of the window. Like sometimes he really THINKS he is kobe and will toss random bricks out of the left field instead of running a smarter play or even better passing it back to Nash who will prob make a better decision for him.

This is strictly my two cents but honestly I think the whole getting out rebounded thing and playing supposedly bad D is getting out of hand. We get out rebounded most nights not cause of lack of hustle but rather because MD likes to go small. We give up rebounds but we burn them with speed just as much, making them tired etc... Also when shots actually fall in for the suns, there is nothing to rebound and even on our best wins we still get out rebounded because our shots went in.

Playing D on the other hand can be easily seen when rotation is lazy, defender not moving up on a screen, or bad communication opening up the lane etc... like every NBA team plays bad D at times. We're no better or worse. Our Achilles so far is random stiff that goes inside which gets countered when we insert our own goon in Skinner.

Just getting sick and tired of stupid commentators who sees the defender putting a hand in his face and playing him tight. Shot goes in and it's bad defense, shot misses and it's great defense. Like give me a fu#%$# break fu retards.

Amare is a gaping black hole, Barbs is a hole, Bell wants to be a hole. Either MD or his brother need to bang their heads to get them to play teamball a lot more. The mental lapses is what kills this team if anything.
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Post#22 » by -SDU- » Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:56 am

mkot wrote:I think LB did not have a clear pass because Shawn was out of position. LB is leading the break because he was in control of the ball and Shawn needs to get himself into position to score. He was dead even with LB, perhaps a little ahead, with a defender between them (within arm's reach). Had LB tried to pass, the ball would have been knocked out of bounds or stolen.

That play wasn't anyone's fault. And it still worked out ok because he did went to the FT line. It's not that LB is a selfish player or a ball hog or he dislikes Shawn, he just isn't Nash that can make pass that no one else can see.


i agree with you myself, especially regarding barbosa not being able to make that pass

me and KPCB had a big debate about it, pausing rewinding, slo mo etc us and another guy in the room were yelling about it, i was saying only nash could make that pass but they disagreed

i dont mind the decision that was made, i guess my point was more that this is 2 incidents recently where marion has reall "b1tched" out of being a good teammate and actually rather than being neutral, has been negative

im a huge marion defender, and really love him on this team, but the way he treated barbs on those 2 plays stinks of bad sportsmanship and i want to see this suns team gather that sort of cammeraderie that is required to win a title
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Post#23 » by mkot » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:59 am

DrFunk wrote:Normally I agree with most of your points Mkot but i disagree about LB not being a ballhog.


I definitely see where you're coming from. I call him a ballhog in game thread when I'm frustrate with his play. I just think that 'ballhog' is too much of a negative word to use on a team guy like LB is. He isn't your typical ballhog that is selfish and only cares about his stat. Think about it, he basically been taught to be a scoring machine off the bench for us. When he's on the floor, usually when Nash sits, he has to score, score, and score more and faster. That's his role. He doesn't have the passing ability and court vision to be a good PG so we make him a scoring guard for us and had worked well. The problem with him has always been the decision making - neither shot selection, or making a pass, he just doesn't seem to make the right decision all the time.

Alternately, we can take the ball out of his hand and let Hill and Boris handle that duty more often. But I think that for LB, we just have to live with the bads with the goods. You really can't tell to stop shooting the ball and being aggressive...

SDU - but can you blame Shawn if he indeed is unhappy about not getting the ball? Sure he probably wasn't in a position where LB can pass him the ball but when you run hard and you don't get rewarded, I think you have the right to be at least a little unhappy about it at that moment.

Also, can you give me a quote/link where he b*tched about that play? After LB got fouled, he just turned around, and walked away. He is frustrated that he didn't get the ball, understandable. At first glance, everyone thought BL should've passed it. And then when LB made his 1st FT, he did high-five him anyway to show his support. Even after the game, I don't remember him mentioning that play during the post game interviews.

Regardless...do you think we should just stop over-analyze every piece of small info we can get in hands? This is going to drive people crazy...
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Post#24 » by -SDU- » Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:25 am

SDU - but can you blame Shawn if he indeed is unhappy about not getting the ball? Sure he probably wasn't in a position where LB can pass him the ball but when you run hard and you don't get rewarded, I think you have the right to be at least a little unhappy about it at that moment.

Also, can you give me a quote/link where he b*tched about that play? After LB got fouled, he just turned around, and walked away. He is frustrated that he didn't get the ball, understandable. At first glance, everyone thought BL should've passed it. And then when LB made his 1st FT, he did high-five him anyway to show his support. Even after the game, I don't remember him mentioning that play during the post game interviews.


i dont have any quotes about marion b1tching about that play, it was just his body language. I dont think i said anywhere that i had a quote did i? :-( sorry if i led you to believe that :oops:

i just linked it to this other incident pointed out by paul coro

On Saturday, guard Leandro Barbosa played volleyball with a loose ball the length of the floor, hustling to keep it alive until it went out of bounds off New Orleans. Barbosa's momentum carried him off the court with only Marion near him. The crowd roared with approval. Marion turned and walked away.


i hate over analyzing, and i LOVE shawn marion on this team and do think he doesnt get the props he deserves, but having seen both these incidents, they both seem legitimate and not the sort of thing you would want from teammates

i can see why marion might be annoyed, but team over individual, and they have to remember they are fighting for the same cause, be supportive, be encouraging, fight for your teammates not just with them

mentally, that "snub" has to have an affect on barbs AND marion and that little mind thing can have a huge affect on the teamwork in a squad because we all know how much of the game is mental



i was
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Post#25 » by mkot » Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:47 am

No you didn't say you have quote but you said he b*tched about that play so I want prove.

So he didn't b*tch, but turned around and walked away, big deal. Like I said, he did give LB support/encouragement by giving him high-five afterward after his made FT. It was during the heat in the moment, he was frustrated that the fast break opportunity didn't turn into a easy basket because he thought he could have a better look. I once saw Nash got mad at Shawn not shooting the ball (he passed it out for a missed 3 by Raja) and Nash gave him the kinda 'WTF' look on his face. Nash yelled at Boris for passing up a layup for a 3 against Indiana (during 05-06). Amare argued with James Jones in games before as well. This is a game full of emotions, things like that happen alot in the heat of the moment. I just don't think it's that big of a deal you made it out to be, SDU. LB is one of the best teammate to be around with, and Shawn's been supportive to him since he's a rookie. That's all there's to it.
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Post#26 » by -SDU- » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:16 am

yeah i agree that its probably not much and there is always little things that happen during a game, but that one against seattle, when your teammate hits the floor, to me, wasnt good

i highly doubt one of the spurs celtics or pistons big three would have turned their back on a felled teammate

im over it, im a big shawn fan and not a "doom and gloom" type of person, i guess its just the aussie rules mentality of "when your teammate is down you have his back" thing that is virtually instinct in me that made that one play stand out
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Post#27 » by -SDU- » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:20 am

ahh, just re-reading i see the confusion now

i said

thats 2 plays recently where marion has reall "b1tched" out of being a good teammate


haha, the translation might not work in china where you are (;-) kidding chief i know its canada :-))

i said marion has "b1tched out of being a good teammate"

"b1tched out" basically means "backed out" or "punked out" sort of, so i was saying marion had 2 opportunities to be a good teammate and congratulate barbs or to help him off the floor after he was decked and marion turned his back and "b1tched out"

it doesnt in any way relate to marion complaining or anything

i hope this clears that part up chief
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Post#28 » by mkot » Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:12 pm

haha, ok I got you now. So it is indeed my English not good enough to understand the meaning of it so I misunderstood you. Oops :)
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Post#29 » by -SDU- » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:18 pm

probably a combination of your english and my australian slang that lead to the confusion,

haha

all is good...... until we lose to the nuggets today!
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Post#30 » by rsavaj » Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:17 pm

Didn't want to start a new thread, but I found this article and thought it was somewhat in line with this thread:

http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... cking.html
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Post#31 » by realfung » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:06 pm

Most teams have slump, Suns will be fine.
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Post#32 » by rsavaj » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:35 pm

And here's a positive article to counteract what I posted above:

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10569599

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