Two Rebuilding Moves for Miami...

[BBallFreak]

Heat trade Haslem for cap space and then add his replacement this coming summer through the cap space they got in the trade? I'll rather have Haslem because there is no assurance we will get a good player out of the cap space. Shaq is no longer the free agent magnet he once was.

The Heat also add a longterm starter at the point.

[shrink]

I'd do both of pja123's deals.

shrink's deal made me vomit. Now way in hell I'd deal a first rounder just to offload Blount to a team that could use him. I don't care what Minnesota gives, we're not getting it! Why would we give up a first rounder for it? The last thing you do in a rebuilding move is deal DRAFT PICKS!

shrink, you should know better. The incentive is Ricky and Mark and what they can do to help Orlando, NOT a first round draft pick...

LOL! But how do you really feel? Don't hold back.

Like I said, I think Ricky and Blount have more value for their production in Orlando than anywhere else, but Ricky for this season is not enough for even the Magic to eat $16.5 mil of Blount the next two years. Swapping an unusable Battie for current production plus adding Craig Smith, I think, is necessary for them to say "OK." But MIN's not going to pay to subsidize helping the Heat for free. If you recall, MIN did get a 1st back when they dealt the same package, but they had to eat Antoine Walker and buy out a cheap contract, to the tune of $10+ mil.

I think its unreasonable to believe that Blount and Ricky's value has gone up this season, allowing you to now clear expirings for them. I think moving $16.5 mil in contract and getting Reddick is easily worth a protected first -- and its a better deal than MIN got when they dealt those two to you.

[shrink]

Trade no.2 (between Miami & the Lakers)

Heat get:
Jordan Farmar
Sasha Vujajic
Kwame Brown

Lakers get:
Udonis Haslem
Jason Williams

WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE HEAT:
They deal away to veteran role players but get back a promising young PG in Farmar and two more expiring deals.

WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE LAKERS:
They get a hard working, defensively talented big man in Haslem. He'd be a great compliment to Bynum on the frontline. Williams would provide additional veteran experience to the backcourt.

I like this idea as well, and Udonis could certainly help the Lakers more than the Heat, but I suspect there's a little bit more market for him than this. Maybe instead of Farmar, the Heat might ask for Crittendon and a future protected first. Crit's more of the rebuilding guy, and the pick makes up some value.

[BBallFreak]

shrink,

Miami doesn't need you in the deal. We could just hand them Blount and Davis and return the right to swap picks and call it a day. Their is no viable reason at all for us to trade you anything at all. That would be moronic on our parts.

And you're the team offloading Jaric! How in the hell do you think you're getting a first round pick for that? I mean, that's just beyond ridiculous!

[Darkstar]

Min deals Jaric in that deal which means they have to give up something to get the other team to take him. You don't get a first for that.

As for The OP, The first I like the second I'm not so sure on. I guess you haave to weigh whether Haslem is better or worse then Vuj+Far.

[shrink]

shrink,

Miami doesn't need you in the deal. We could just hand them Blount and Davis and return the right to swap picks and call it a day. Their is no viable reason at all for us to trade you anything at all. That would be moronic on our parts.

ROFL!!! Here's a few problems with your "Right to Swap a Pick" idea:

1. The pickswap only exists this year.
2. The pickswap is lottery protected.
3. You don't even OWN the pick you're trying to swap.
4. Late first rounders have been sold in the past for $3 mil. You're asking ORL to take on $16.5 MILLION DOLLARS for the right to move up in the draft?!? You're not even offering them a pick?!?

As they used to say on Cheap Seats .. "hiLARious"

And you're the team offloading Jaric! How in the hell do you think you're getting a first round pick for that? I mean, that's just beyond ridiculous!

So, you believe that a win-now ORL likes having $5.2 mil of salary locked up in a guy that's guaranteed to provide ZERO production? They are paying the injured Battie over $17 mil for two years of production, healthy, and zero production this year - the year they have Ricky Davis. Battie's getting paid averaging $8.5 mil/year .. Jaric makes $6.9 mil, and I don't think people can say he hasn't been productive. Battie's deal is one year shorter. MIN might not mind getting zero production this year, but I think Orlando probably isn't in that boat.


So tell me again? Your plan is to unload Ricky Davis and Marko Blount on Orlando, have them up their salary by $16.5 mil. You remove no bad contracts, and you think you can do this for a pickswap that you don't even own.

Oh yeah -- and I'm the ridiculous one?

[BBallFreak]

If it's THEM taking on all the crap contracts, why in the HELL ARE YOU GETTING THE PICK?!?!?!?!?! Craig Smith? Don't make me laugh! That's a borderline guy, at best.

Ricky actually has positive value, and Blount could be very useful to them. Ricky is the compensation for taking on Blount's deal, but no way in hell would I consider dealing you or them a first rounder in order to do so. That is absolutely preposterous. Rebuilding teams do not deal picks, and if we're making this move, it is to rebuild...

[shrink]

I think you're nuts. Ricky Davis doesn't have enough trade value to get ORL to eat three years of Blount.

In just the Orlando-MIN half, ORL trade the injured Battie's 3-year deal for Craig Smith and Jaric, where win-now ORL gains 20.1 PPG, 7,4 RPG, 4.7 APG. But you think they'd prefer a lottery-protected pick?

You're welcome to say, "We're rebuilding and don't trade picks," but playing poor doesn't make ORL more willing to bail you out and help the financial side of your rebuild. If MIA has something else legitimate on their team to offer (I mean, besides offering pick swaps to picks you don't own) include it.

[BBallFreak]

We do own the pick swap. What you fail to realize is that if we don't swap the pick this year (which we won't), we're getting their second and half a million. That could be returned. MUCH more in line with what we're giving and what we're getting.

Now, as for the Minnesota part of the deal, no one gives a damn what stats are getting added, because that's not what they're going to average in Orlando! Both Jaric and Smith would be bench players behind... who, now? Oh yeah, by your own admission, Ricky Davis and Mark Blount.

We will NOT deal a first to Minnesota so that Craig freaking Smith can go to Orlando, nor will we give up the first to get him here. He's not worth that!

[shrink]

LOL! Somehow I doubt that you can trade a pick to another team, and retain the right to swap it later!

Even if this was true ... (pause) ... you'd like Orlando to add $16.5 mil of Mark Blount for .. perhaps the 50th pick in the draft, and they get $0.5 mil back? Hey -- that cash ought to just about cover those checks to Blount right there!

[BBallFreak]

LOL! Somehow I doubt that you can trade a pick to another team, and retain the right to swap it later!

Even if this was true ... (pause) ... you'd like Orlando to add $16.5 mil of Mark Blount for .. perhaps the 50th pick in the draft, and they get $0.5 mil back? Hey -- that cash ought to just about cover those checks to Blount right there!

That's about as absurd as you getting a first rounder for Marko FREAKING Jaric!

And we all know you're banking on Tony Battie retiring and you only getting stuck with his deal for one more season. You're trying to rob the hell out of Miami. We aren't buying...

[loserX]

To be fair, I can no more imagine Miami giving a pick to move Blount than I can imagine the Wolves giving a pick to move Jaric.

Minny is content to add in young players like Gomes, Green, sometimes Smith...all guys who may NOT fit into their plans due to their multi-million-$ extensions and the spectre of the lux tax. But picks, who can be obtained and signed much more cheaply, are generally not on the table. I'm sure the Heat feel the same way...I'm guessing they'd rather take an extra year of salary, Antoine Walker style, than give up a pick.

[BBallFreak]

To be fair, I can no more imagine Miami giving a pick to move Blount than I can imagine the Wolves giving a pick to move Jaric.

Minny is content to add in young players like Gomes, Green, sometimes Smith...all guys who may NOT fit into their plans due to their multi-million-$ extensions and the spectre of the lux tax. But picks, who can be obtained and signed much more cheaply, are generally not on the table. I'm sure the Heat feel the same way...I'm guessing they'd rather take an extra year of salary, Antoine Walker style, than give up a pick.

Precisely.

This trade is a rebuilding trade for the Heat. If we're stuck with Blount for the duration of his deal, that's fine, but trading a first round pick to move him is unreasonable for us.

Blount is a useful commodity to a team like Orlando, as is Ricky. If they're not willing to take Blount without a pick, then we can just eat the deal and collect lottery picks...

[shrink]

That's about as absurd as you getting a first rounder for Marko FREAKING Jaric!

Umm .. actually you're being a little dishonest, not talking about the whole deal.

I think Jaric > Battie, and moreover, I doubt there is any other team out there willing to take on Battie this year, when ORL wants the help.

Moreover, you neglected to even include Craig Smith in your quote.

20.1 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 4.6 APG is legitimate production. Even if they get less, that's more valuable to a win-now team than a LOTTERY-PROTECTED (you forgot to say THAT too) 1st.

NOBODY is going to trade expirings, move no bad contracts, and eat $16.5 mil of Mark Blount for 5 months of Ricky Davis.

Boo hoo -- it's going to cost a legitimate asset to move that much salary. Basicly argueing, "Wahhh .. but I don't wanna pay much!" doesn't change the economics of the NBA.

[shrink]

I'm guessing they'd rather take an extra year of salary, Antoine Walker style, than give up a pick.

Well, it's two years, and $16.5 mil. They get back expirings, they get JJ Reddick, and the pick is lottery protected.

Yeah, boo hoo, I'm sure they would rather not pay it. But dreaming that Mark Blount's gets moved for Ricky and a second rounder is delusional

[loserX]

Yeah, boo hoo, I'm sure they would rather not pay it. But dreaming that Mark Blount's gets moved for Ricky and a second rounder is delusional

That may be very well true. I'm just saying that if moving Blount for expirings costs them a first round pick, especially the first of the post-Shaq era, I doubt they do it. They're not likely to hit the lux tax next year or anything.