Official Bargnani Discussion Thread

[mihaic]

[quote="Harry Palmer"][/quote]

You know very well that Bargnani had a couple of bad months. But enjoy your ride. Like in bashing Ford, it is not going to last. Like in bashing the Raptors last year (or this year), it is not going to last.

Shoo now there are some interesting threads on the Houston Rockets board.

[Harry Palmer]

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You know very well that Bargnani had a couple of bad months. But enjoy your ride. Like in bashing Ford, it is not going to last. Like in bashing the Raptors last year (or this year), it is not going to last.

Shoo now there are some interesting threads on the Houston Rockets board.

Ah, the old 'I don't like your take on the Raps, so I'm gonna criticize you' method. Seems like hours since I've seen this one.

[vulture]

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You know very well that Bargnani had a couple of bad months. But enjoy your ride. Like in bashing Ford, it is not going to last. Like in bashing the Raptors last year (or this year), it is not going to last.

Shoo now there are some interesting threads on the Houston Rockets board.

You couldn't come up with anything to argue, so you result to personal attacks?
How mature of you.

[PharoaheMonch]

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You know very well that Bargnani had a couple of bad months. But enjoy your ride. Like in bashing Ford, it is not going to last. Like in bashing the Raptors last year (or this year), it is not going to last.

Shoo now there are some interesting threads on the Houston Rockets board.

Dude, don't even think to compare the two situations. There's a huge difference. TJ was producing and we were winning games while he was being "bashed". It was not justified.

Andrea is stinking up the house, night in and night out. It's justified.

[mihaic]

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Ah, the old 'I don't like your take on the Raps, so I'm gonna criticize you' method. Seems like hours since I've seen this one.

If I do post something else it is dubbed an excuse, isn't it? The excuse squad, no? So why bother?

I enjoy though posting about your history of twisting facts, you just lied yesterday about your position on TJ for example.

Hurry up, though, you may be able to modify your posts from Ocober 2006

[Harry Palmer]

I enjoy though posting about your history of twisting facts, you just lied yesterday about your position on TJ for example.

You are dead wrong. In fact, people here said that I was only defending the trade because I 'hated' CV. Others complained that while I did support the trade, I wasn't as vocal as I'd have been if I didn;t like it. Wham! was among them, as I recall.

Hurry up and go look back at the posts. You're wrong, dead wrong, sorry if you don't know it.

[mihaic]

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You are dead wrong. In fact, people here said that I was only defending the trade because I 'hated' CV. Others complained that while I did support the trade, I wasn't as vocal as I'd have been if I didn;t like it. Wham! was among them, as I recall.

Hurry up and go look back at the posts. You're wrong, dead wrong, sorry if you don't know it.

I am talking about the contract extension. Read it please

[RapsBulls4evr]

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what about the people who continuously make excuses for player's shortcomings, no matter what the situation, are they considered "agenda-driven" as well?

i just think it's silly as hell to even start labelling people like that. everyone picks a side and then the 2 sides discuss/argue stuff, usually to no end because 95% of people already have their minds made up. that's life. no need to act like this is some strange raptor board phenomenon.

agenda-driven because they don't like a player...lol. what goal are they trying to realize by saying bargs sucks at rebounding over and over?

Excuses? What excuses? Irrelevant nor does your comparison make any sense especially with regards to Andrea's predicament. If those "people" choose to make excuses, then that's them. And especially in Andrea's case, it's perfectly normal for him to struggle the way he has. He accepts a position he's never played and yet all of a sudden, he gets called a bust and ripped because he's not putting center-like numbers.

Silly? Not really... but if that's what you think, then that's you. When someone has a specific intent before an outcome of a game to focus on a players weakness, the only good word that fits such people are simply put: "agenda-driven posters". They do NOT care about the situation the players in, whether or not he plays well and just decide to hate on one of his weak attributes.

There's no "sides", as this is really not even a debate that one would pick a side. It's really just a person who just picks a players weakness and wrongfully rip him regardless of the players peformance and outcome on the game... hence "agenda-driven posters". Sure it may not sound friendly, but that's just proper term to define such actions... I hope you now get a sense of what and why we use it.

Yeah, it may also be that they don't like that player, in most cases, that's actually true, especially considering the person who made/makes these Andrea threads. What's their intention? Simply telling us, I assume that we should have drafted someone else. Why pointing out the same thing over, and over again, even though it's obvious? I don't know.

[Fortinos2008]

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The only problem with what you say here is that it's mostly not true.

A) Re: project. While we WERE asked for patience, as we would be with any draft pick, the organization, from BC to Mr. Swirsky, openly bristled at the suggestion that Bargs was a project taknen first overall. Viewers might remember Mr. Swirsky more than once emphatically saying '...and he's NOT a project, Jack.' or whatever.

B) What's a FORCE? How is Gay not a force? I am continually amazed how lauded a 21 year old putting up 11.5/4/1 on 40% shooting was, while a 21 year old putting up 20/5.5/2/1.5/1 on 48% shooting is dismissed. I would say most Gms and virtually every announcing crew that sees him considers him a force. The Sac announcers last night were raving about West's steal, saying "Shane Battier is a very good player, but this kid is going to be a star...a really special star...and one of the best plyers in the league for a long time."

Those are the kinds of comments announcers make about him almost every night. I'd call that a FORCE.

C) Aldridge, like Gay and Roy, are getting more minutes because they have earned them. Take a look at their efficiencies, their shooting %'s, their production/minute, and you will see how silly it is to say the difference between Bargs and them at this point is PT.

Actually what he said was 100%, it is you that is taking statements made by BC out of context and since when is Swirsky part of our management? To suggest Swirsky saying certain things means BC thought so to is just a sad attempt at twisting what really happened. Again BC always said he would take time and he also said he would produce right away while devoping as a player and im sorry to tell you that he did actually produce and help this team win 47 games and win two rookie of the month awards and finish second in voting for ROY, ahead of Rudy Gay.


As for Rudy Gay I maintain that he is an average player on a losing team. Knowing this changes alot about how you should look at a player and their stats. Is he being force fed the ball to develop knowing they will lose? Are teams allowing him to get his knowing the Grizzlies will lose if they shut down the others? Is he scoring alot of his points in garbage time? Is he really a difference maker when his team continues to lose? How is his defense this season? What he is bringing to the table to helo his team win? Stats are not the end of discussion, discussions may start with stats but they generally end being discredited and refuted by situation and opposing team stratedgy and the teams stratedgy to develop a paticular player.

You look at that Grizzlies starting five on paper and one would argue they have more talent than us, especially if people listen to you but yet the Grizzlies continue to get spanked as teams show up there to face them playing half a55ed knowing they will win and ending up with the W. The grizzlies are the joke of the league and if Rudy Gay cannot raise the level of that team how in the world would you ever expect him to raise the level of this one? In Toronto Rudy Gay would get about 10 shots a game if that, and would he fit in this offense and would he even be a starter at this point in time if he was coached by Mitchell and had the up and down seaosn he had last year?

Brandon Roy when to Portland and is a difference maker, stats or no stats he impacts the game and makes his teammates better and contribute to W's, you could see the portland team changing even last year and you knew coming into this season they would be better led by Roy. Why has this not happened with Rudy? I believe the excuse last year was the grizzlies had injuries and their coach was a boob which is why they lsot so man games and Rudy struggled. Well another year has past and they have a new coach and they are healthy, Rudy is scoring some points not playing any defense and they continue to be a laughing stock.

You take your stats guy on a losing team, ill take my developing player that helped us win last year and continue to help us this year despite his injury plagued month of december. Rudy Gay isnt a first option player and I queston wether he is even a second option on a good team and until he proves otherwise like by making player sbetter, contributing to wins, and his team having a decent season he will remain a force fed avg player jackin shots on a lousy team.

[Fortinos2008]

Harry Palmer I remember you from thaivisa.com , do you remember me?

[PharoaheMonch]

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Actually what he said was 100%, it is you that is taking statements made by BC out of context and since when is Swirsky part of our management? To suggest Swirsky saying certain things means BC thought so to is just a sad attempt at twisting what really happened. Again BC always said he would take time and he also said he would produce right away while devoping as a player and im sorry to tell you that he did actually produce and help this team win 47 games and win two rookie of the month awards and finish second in voting for ROY, ahead of Rudy Gay.


As for Rudy Gay I maintain that he is an average player on a losing team. Knowing this changes alot about how you should look at a player and their stats. Is he being force fed the ball to develop knowing they will lose? Are teams allowing him to get his knowing the Grizzlies will lose if they shut down the others? Is he scoring alot of his points in garbage time? Is he really a difference maker when his team continues to lose? How is his defense this season? What he is bringing to the table to helo his team win? Stats are not the end of discussion, discussions may start with stats but they generally end being discredited and refuted by situation and opposing team stratedgy and the teams stratedgy to develop a paticular player.

You look at that Grizzlies starting five on paper and one would argue they have more talent than us, especially if people listen to you but yet the Grizzlies continue to get spanked as teams show up there to face them playing half a55ed knowing they will win and ending up with the W. The grizzlies are the joke of the league and if Rudy Gay cannot raise the level of that team how in the world would you ever expect him to raise the level of this one? In Toronto Rudy Gay would get about 10 shots a game if that, and would he fit in this offense and would he even be a starter at this point in time if he was coached by Mitchell and had the up and down seaosn he had last year?

Brandon Roy when to Portland and is a difference maker, stats or no stats he impacts the game and makes his teammates better and contribute to W's, you could see the portland team changing even last year and you knew coming into this season they would be better led by Roy. Why has this not happened with Rudy? I believe the excuse last year was the grizzlies had injuries and their coach was a boob which is why they lsot so man games and Rudy struggled. Well another year has past and they have a new coach and they are healthy, Rudy is scoring some points not playing any defense and they continue to be a laughing stock.

You take your stats guy on a losing team, ill take my developing player that helped us win last year and continue to help us this year despite his injury plagued month of december. Rudy Gay isnt a first option player and I queston wether he is even a second option on a good team and until he proves otherwise like by making player sbetter, contributing to wins, and his team having a decent season he will remain a force fed avg player jackin shots on a lousy team.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to even reply to your ridiculous points, but I'll tell you this much. It's not about how many shots a guy puts up, it's about overall efficiency. Rudy Gay puts up those shots because he's effecient, IE he produces. He's not a volume chucker by any means, and he certainly isn't a black hole on offense ALA Il Mago. He also plays D, and is galaxies ahead of Bargnani will ever been when it comes to rebounding...even though he plays SF. When a player his age is effecient every night, and still has SO MUCH room to grow..you know he's on the verge of being special. He's already putting up 20/5 on 47 percent shooting....the man is efficient

But yeah, just keep on maintaining that he's an average player on a bad team. Keep doing it. You hold no weight.

Andrea Bargnani can only dream of being as efficient as Rudy Gay right now.

[PharoaheMonch]

Sorry, 5.5 boards on 48 percent shooting....even better

[Fortinos2008]

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I don't even know why I'm bothering to even reply to your ridiculous points, but I'll tell you this much. It's not about how many shots a guy puts up, it's about overall efficiency. Rudy Gay puts up those shots because he's effecient, IE he produces. He's not a volume chucker by any means, and he certainly isn't a black hole on offense ALA Il Mago. He also plays D, and is galaxies ahead of Bargnani will ever been when it comes to rebounding...even though he plays SF. When a player his age is effecient every night, and still has SO MUCH room to grow..you know he's on the verge of being special. He's already putting up 20/5 on 47 percent shooting....the man is efficient

But yeah, just keep on maintaining that he's an average player on a bad team. Keep doing it. You hold no weight.

Andrea Bargnani can only dream of being as efficient as Rudy Gay right now.

Rudy Gay is efficient alright, efficient at losing, efficient at not making his teammates better, efficient at not defending, efficient at being inconsistent and again I look at their starting five and on paper they should be on par or better than ours but yet they still lose with the AWSOME rudy gay, how come?

[Harry Palmer]

Harry Palmer I remember you from thaivisa.com , do you remember me?

No. Don't even know what that is. Sorry.


As to your post above, I think all the rebuttals for that have been posted. It's just founded on a specious premise that is supported neither by history, nor current facts. Gay is NOT a volume scorer, he's an efficient one. Many, many young players, including Chris Bosh, Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, etc. etc. were on losing teams early in their careers. You use this criteria in a highly selective fashion.

[saham]

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What happens if Plan B doesn't work?

If plan B doesnt work then I ll be convinced that he is a bust.

[Fortinos2008]

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No. Don't even know what that is. Sorry.


As to your post above, I think all the rebuttals for that have been posted. It's just founded on a specious premise that is supported neither by history, nor current facts. Gay is NOT a volume scorer, he's an efficient one. Many, many young players, including Chris Bosh, Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, etc. etc. were on losing teams early in their careers. You use this criteria in a highly selective fashion.

Sorry I used to hang out there ages ago and I remember a Harry Palmer there that was just like you, I even heard I could find you here which is odd enough.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=11021

You sure thats not you? would be pretty strange to see the same name, same style and same avatar (once used by you here I hear). Then again maybe not cause that guy was a serious ego maniac who created hundreds of user names and used proxy to reregister and cause chaos for the entire board.

Just so you know I used to be an admin there, I was actually frightened to see your name here.


As for Rudy gay again the team shouldnt be that bad especially if Gay is playing as good as you say he is. Gasol, Miller and your wonderful Gay along with Swift and Darko and Damon, Navvarro and the other young guards should be winning games but all the while rudy is scoring some points but that team continues to suck? They also went out and hired a big name coach but nothing seems to work, hmmmm

You keep talking about Bargnani's problems as a player since being in the league but in fact Bargnani was the better rookie in the eyes of everyone on the planet but perhaps your own and even this year despite his scoring Rudy Gay continues to be a non factor in terms of winning games with what looks like on paper decent players around him. Infact Rudy has regressed in alot of area's while making progress in scoring and what it has led to is another losing season where rudy is wildy inconsistant from game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half.

The grizzlies shouldnt be this bad but they are and Rudy gay is part of it

[Section_306]

Why don't you guys head over to the Memphis board to further discuss Rudy Gay?

[Fortinos2008]

Why don't you guys head over to the Memphis board to further discuss Rudy Gay?

Are you kidding Rudy Gay shouudl be discussed on every board, the guy is awsome just look at him lift the bar for the Grizz

[Harry Palmer]

[quote="Fortinos2008"][/quote]

Nope, not me, am not even Thai, if that's what the site title implies. Harry Palmer is a reasonably well known fictional character, though, with several books and movies made about him, so not too surprising.

As for Gay, you are again applying completely arbitrary subjectives. It's not that he's playing 'as well as I say he is.' It's that he's playing as well as the objective data says he is. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

[Tommy Gun]

I'm starting to feel bad for Contender. I honestly think he's mentally ill.