Toronto gets PG from MN

[MN Die Hard]

Bassy Telfair and MN's 2008 2nd rounder (currently #31) for Kris Humphries and Toronto's 2008 1st rounder (currently #17)?

Raptors' Colangelo On Prowl For Guard
January 11, 2008 - 7:22 am
Toronto Sun -
Raptors' GM Bryan Colangelo said yesterday he is going to continue to try to acquire another point guard -- even though T.J. Ford will begin working out this week.

"I've been in communication with a number of teams, doing the normal course of activity in terms of making and receiving phone calls and talking about improving our basketball team," said Colangelo, adding that acquiring a point guard is a priority.

Even though Ford, who suffered an arm stinger on Dec. 11, will begin workouts this week, he could still be four to five weeks away from rejoining the team. Jose Calderon is playing more than 40 minutes per game in his place, and shooting guard Juan Dixon hasn't worked out as a backup.

Some point guards mentioned as possibly being available include former Raptor Damon Stoudamire of the Memphis Grizzles, Jason Williams of the Miami Heat , and Luke Ridnour of the Seattle SuperSonics.

[arrow2knee]

let me first say that i wouldnt do hump for telfair let alone add a first

[DanTown8587]

terrible deal

[zong]

if Hump goes home to Minny, we'd want Craig Smith

but the thing is, we dont want Telfair

[Mr Swagtastic]

Hell **** no from Toronto why move a 1st for a guy who has been a terrible role model for the NBA and is always in the doghouse (Telfair). Toronto wouldn't move a 1st for him as he's not worth it and neither is a 2nd from them. Humphries alone could have got Telfair at one point so why make this deal? Minny would have to start with Green, Smith or Gomes to get a first out of this deal.

Minny is all over this deal as it stands now

[Kosta]

Wait, so Telfair's value has gone up this much with the padded stats he's put up on a 5-29 team? You pushed your luck asking for a decent big signed to a very nice contract, but you went borderline nuts when you added the 1st rounder.

We have no need for Telfair, if anything we're looking for a vet point who still has some game and knows their role.

[revprodeji]

As a Minnesota fan I would not want to do this. Bassy has a bad rep with rubes who have not seen him, but watching him play all year you see a 22yr old that has the chance to be a very effective player for us. I would keep him.

[RTM]

1) This, as it stands, is an AWFUL deal for Toronto.

2) MIN's 2008 2nd Round pick is being sent to the Pistons, and therefore can't be included in this deal.

[zong]

As a Minnesota fan I would not want to do this. Bassy has a bad rep with rubes who have not seen him, but watching him play all year you see a 22yr old that has the chance to be a very effective player for us. I would keep him.

we know Telfair is a good young player and his little story coming into the league, but as it stands, we need a veteran PG who is satisfied handling 10-18 minutes a game as a backup to Jose as TJ continues his rehab

and asking us to give up our only young defensive big kinda kills it

[deeney0]

1) This, as it stands, is an AWFUL deal for Toronto.

2) MIN's 2008 2nd Round pick is being sent to the Pistons, and therefore can't be included in this deal.

False. Wolves can send their 2008 or 2009 2nd rounder to satisfy this obligation; obviously, they will choose the latter.

[shrink]

and asking us to give up our only young defensive big kinda kills it

Kris Humphries .. Toronto dealkiller.

EDIT "kinda" dealkiller.

[shrink]

As for the "stat-padding" argument, I go back and forth.

I suppose players on bad teams may get more opportunities.

On the other hand, their more likely to get the ball in bad situations, receive more focus from defense than normal, and in the case of PG's, not have lesser players finish even when they do the right thing.

Telfair's averaging 10 PPG, 2 RPG, 6 APG, 2 TO.

::shrug::

[Schad]

As for the "stat-padding" argument, I go back and forth.

I suppose players on bad teams may get more opportunities.

On the other hand, their more likely to get the ball in bad situations, receive more focus from defense than normal, and in the case of PG's, not have lesser players finish even when they do the right thing.

Telfair's averaging 10 PPG, 2 RPG, 6 APG, 2 TO.

::shrug::

Yes, but what Toronto wants is a competent stopgap; Telfair has never played on a good team, meaning that he is not an ideal fit. Plus, he's a RFA after the season...assuming they wish to keep both Calderon and Ford, and assuming that Telfair would like to receive some minutes elsewhere, that means that Toronto would be trading away Humphries and trading down 10-15 spots in the draft for three months worth of Telfair. Not a good deal.

And if you're laughing at the notion that we would be loath to move Humphries for a point guard, you haven't looked at our roster recently. With Bargnani and Bosh starting, Humphries is the first big off the bench on most nights. Trade him for a point guard and we have a three big rotation of Bosh, Bargs, and Rasho...with absolutely no one behind them. Rasho can't play 25-30 mpg; he'll die on the court.

[shrink]

Telfair has never played on a good team, meaning that he is not an ideal fit.

It hasn't hurt Garnett in Boston.

Seriously though, I understand your point .. I think the "he's only played on bad teams argument gets a little overstated here. A team's success doesn't mean every player on that team is valueless.

And if you're laughing at the notion that we would be loath to move Humphries for a point guard, you haven't looked at our roster recently. With Bargnani and Bosh starting, Humphries is the first big off the bench on most nights. Trade him for a point guard and we have a three big rotation of Bosh, Bargs, and Rasho...with absolutely no one behind them. Rasho can't play 25-30 mpg; he'll die on the court.

Nope. I didn't make a statement on the deal. I simply was amused anyone would say that KRIS HUMPHIES kinda kills any deal.

I wish Colangelo would have gone into more detail, but I guess that would be hoping too much.

[Schad]

-= original quote snipped =-


Seriously though, I understand your point .. I think the "he's only played on bad teams argument gets a little overstated here. A team's success doesn't mean every player on that team is valueless.

Playing on a bad team doesn't kill a player's value outright. For me, it's the fact that, as a point guard, he would be expected to run the offense for stretches that concerns me; Telfair is one of the few regulars in the league averaging under 1 point per shot, and lacking in experience under the bright lights of a playoff drive, and for that reason I'd rather bring in a mediocre, but less inconsistent vet. Especially if a 1st + our best big off the bench (ugh.) is the asking price.

Nope. I didn't make a statement on the deal. I simply was amused anyone would say that KRIS HUMPHIES kinda kills any deal.

Heh, Humphries will likely be a bench player throughout his career, but this season he's actually playing quite well; he's only 22, signed to a very cheap contract through '10/'11, and has per/40 averages of 16.9 points and 11.4 rebs a game...he's still (and always will be) as dumb as a brick, but I'd no longer consider him filler.

[kandiking]

wow so kris humphries is now in a league with balkman as far as "worst player that's considered untouchable by its fanbase"

[Schad]

wow so kris humphries is now in a league with balkman as far as "worst player that's considered untouchable by its fanbase"

Pay attention...no one is calling him untouchable. "More than filler" (ie., not a guy we're looking to give away virtually for free) does not mean that we expect a star in return. Just that Humphries likely has more value to a size- and rebounding-starved Raptors team than to anyone else. And since no one is likely to offer anything of value for him, we'd just as soon keep him.

[MN Die Hard]

Wow, I guess I totally misjudged Humph's value in Toronto. Sorry, my bad. Admitedly I was going off his stat line (specifically 15 minutes per game) since I'm not too familiar with the Raps' rotation.

Funny thing is, I first considered a straight up offer, but figured Wolves fans would turn it down as we need Telfair the PG more than we need 6 points and 4 rebounds from a backup PF/C.

and has per/40 averages of 16.9 points and 11.4 rebs a game

I'm kinda torn on the "per 40" argument. I think its fine to compare stats if one guy plays 30 minutes and one guy plays 36, for example. But when you try to argue the per-40 stats for a guy who only plays 15 minutes per game, my response is "if he's that good, why isnt he playing more minutes?"

[Schad]

Wow, I guess I totally misjudged Humph's value in Toronto. Sorry, my bad. Admitedly I was going off his stat line (specifically 15 minutes per game) since I'm not too familiar with the Raps' rotation.

Funny thing is, I first considered a straight up offer, but figured Wolves fans would turn it down as we need Telfair the PG more than we need 6 points and 4 rebounds from a backup PF/C.

I'm kinda torn on the "per 40" argument. I think its fine to compare stats if one guy plays 30 minutes and one guy plays 36, for example. But when you try to argue the per-40 stats for a guy who only plays 15 minutes per game, my response is "if he's that good, why isnt he playing more minutes?"

That's definitely valid, and Hump's stats do need to be taken with a grain of salt for that reason. I posted the /40's not because I think Hump will ever be a 17/11 guy playing starter's minutes, but rather to indicate that he's playing competently and productively in his current role.

And I fully understand Minny not jumping on a straight-up trade; with Jefferson, Smith, Gomes, and company, you're not hurting for capable rebounders.

[raps4life~]

so telfair would be the third string PG? hes not THAT bad.