Denver nuggets vs Los angeles lakers 7 game series

[corona]

you know they have a negative rebounding diff, right?
Last season, Nene gave up an average PER of 19.8 at the 4 spot. 14 at PF is good but nowhere near "superb".
Kenyon's opp per was 22 last season. This season it's still at 17.4. That's what Odom gives up at the 4. Considering he's playing next to Camby that's pretty sad.

okay hollinger,
kenyon martin played in two games last season. keep extrapolating a players career from your 82games.com statistics.
he's been an excellent defender since college, has perhaps the best/strongest/quickest hands in the league, is great laterally for a big man, knows all the tricks of the trade and gets respect from the officials to get away with bumps/shoves like a bruce bowen does.
nene had swelling in his knee until february and was limited in his mobility and his minutes (because of an acl surgery the previous year....we have seen nenad kristic & tony allen struggle through the same issues to start this season). he played superb after that, and anyone who watched the nuggets with any regularity would know that. his combination of strength and quickness has given tim duncan problems, and even spurs fans admit that (some more than others).
he tore a ligament in his thumb early this season and has been playing with that wrapped since...clearly your purely statistical analysis of his 12 games this season won't do justice to the defender he's been for denver.

Statistically they aren't good defenders. so far this year they haven't stopped anyone from walking all over them either.

bynum's averaged 7 points and 7.5 rebounds in 2 games against denver (nene didn't play in either). isn't that an issue when analyzing denver's defense and a matchup with the lakers?
perhaps its also worthy to point out that nene's played in 12 of the teams 36 games, and kmart was restricted to limited minutes for the first 6 weeks of the season as he was moderated on his return from his second microfracture surgery.

but i shouldn't expect you to know that, right?

82games.com says trevor ariza is an atrocious defender because the lakers are better defensively when he's off the court, and he has an opponent per of 23.4 at the SF position. how should i believe it when someone says he 'shut down' iverson?

How in the world are you guys coming up with this "superb defender" idea?

watching games. knowing players careers. its quite simple, actually.

[kno]

The way the Lakers are playing right now, I am confident they can beat any team not named Boston and San Antonio.

Thats just based on how they've played right now though...

[That Nicka]

bynum's averaged 7 points and 7.5 rebounds in 2 games against denver (nene didn't play in either). isn't that an issue when analyzing denver's defense and a matchup with the lakers?

For what its worth, Bynum had the flu during one of those games and spent the night before in the hospital with the IV...

In the first game he had 12 and 13 on 5-8

The 2nd game (when he was sick) he had 2 points and 3 rebounds

[farzi]

Dont you know the lakers have a young Bill Russell and the GOAT, everyone should quit now because they have played the toughest schedule in the history of all sports men and women and there is no team this side of andromeda with a chance against the Lakers.

[Craig McDermott]

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Denver is still Denver, Farsi. A team of poops.

[The Laker Kid]

Denver hasn't beaten the Lakers this season in two tries. When they do, let's talk.

[LLcoleJ]

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ive also learned from reading this thread that laker fans arent the smartest among nba fans. not trying to hate, just callin em like i see it - hard to disagree if you read this thread. maybe in other threads laker fans are better. im not sure.

so you would rather make a generalization over having a discussion with those that are wrong and / or disagree with you? Should I label this approach as the ..."typical nugget fan?"

[Bgil]

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wow.

glad that was sarcastic because if you were serious it would have sounded so stupid.

Please go back to the nuggets board and worry about not getting your two Superstars and DPOY booted out of the playoff picture by Houston or Utah. I would say worry about Portland but they've already kicked your asses twice (like we have) and I think they'd rape you in the playoffs.

[Bgil]

he's been an excellent defender since college, has perhaps the best/strongest/quickest hands in the league, is great laterally for a big man, knows all the tricks of the trade and gets respect from the officials to get away with bumps/shoves like a bruce bowen does.

Actually, he hasn't been an excellent defender since he left NJ. He was overrated because of his scheme, the lack of talent in the East, and J-Kidd. You guys gave him a massive contract and he hasn't earned it on either side of the ball.

His lateral movement and quickness good for a PF but not amazing once you consider that there are numerous SF's in the league that are just as big or bigger and defend the perimeter much better. Case in point: Harrington, Odom, Lebron etc.

That said, I'd love to have him on my team if he made about 5 million less per year.

kenyon martin played in two games last season. keep extrapolating a players career from your 82games.com statistics.

120 games before that give him something about 16.5... not superb especially considering Camby is usually right next to him.

clearly your purely statistical analysis of his 12 games this season won't do justice to the defender he's been for denver.

My analysis was that he's never on the court and can't score enough for you guys to field that mythical lineup posted earlier. He also can't block shots or rebound which severly limits his defensive ability.
If those guys are so good on D and you have Camby and AI then why do you guys underachieve so much? Let me guess, it's all George Karl's fault

[Vincent 666]

Lakers in 6

[corona]

Actually, he hasn't been an excellent defender since he left NJ. He was overrated because of his scheme, the lack of talent in the East, and J-Kidd. You guys gave him a massive contract and he hasn't earned it on either side of the ball.

it doesn't matter what he's paid in this conversation, he's an excellent defensive player. denver's significantly better with him on the court defensively. and all you need to do is watch a game to figure that out.

His lateral movement and quickness good for a PF but not amazing once you consider that there are numerous SF's in the league that are just as big or bigger and defend the perimeter much better. Case in point: Harrington, Odom, Lebron etc.

none of those guys stack up to martin in their defensive abilities either in the post or on the perimeter. this is a joke.

That said, I'd love to have him on my team

why?

120 games before that give him something about 16.5... not superb especially considering Camby is usually right next to him.

i'll take this opportunity to point out a few more things...
a) 82games positional opponent stats are bogus. they're based off positions (which can be largely wrong), not matchups. for instance kenyon guarded howard last night, but since howard's listed as a C, 82games would have camby guarding him the whole night. and that's typical, because kmart's a better 1v1 defender while camby's a better weakside defender...so kmart always gets the tougher matchup while camby can roam.
b) kmart played that entire season needing microfracture surgery. this is the first time he's been healthy & pain free with denver.

My analysis was that he's never on the court and can't score enough for you guys to field that mythical lineup posted earlier. He also can't block shots or rebound which severly limits his defensive ability.

nene? he averaged 16/7 in the second half of last season on over 60% shooting. you guys are jacked on bynum scoring 13 a game, i don't think nene has a problem matching that if you give him 2 hands and he's somewhat healthy.
regarding blocked shots & rebounds...he plays alongside camby who's now grabbing 14 boards a game, yes he's an average rebounder, but not bad...statistics can be deceiving. and another laker fan criticized denver's blocked shot numbers because they gamble so much. you can't have it both ways. nene's not a good defender because he doesn't block shots (even though he's perhaps the best positional defensive player on the team)...and camby's not a good defender because he gambles to block shots. which is it?

If those guys are so good on D and you have Camby and AI then why do you guys underachieve so much? Let me guess, it's all George Karl's fault

injuries mostly. laker fans should know about that when injuries to odom/walton/brown...etc set them back a nice chunk of wins last season and completely destroyed their momentum/chemistry. (they had virtually the same record they do now, last season, at this time)
some of it also falls on karl for not developing the shooting role players the team needs and implementing some sort of organized & efficient offense.

[tkb]

They can't dominate the boards and they play no defense.

Now, this statement is just WAY out there. The Nuggets have been the 4th best defensive team this season and average the 2nd most rebounds per game of any team in the league.

It's ok to think the Lakers would win (I think we would win too although it would be a tough series), but those statements are false.

[TonyMontana]

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ive also learned from reading this thread that laker fans arent the smartest among nba fans. not trying to hate, just callin em like i see it - hard to disagree if you read this thread. maybe in other threads laker fans are better. im not sure.

REALLY ?

Whats funny is your childish insults directed towards Laker fans .
Im a Laker fan , as far as this thread goes , please feel free to let us know what part you disagree with .
If its in regards of the Lakers having the ability to beat the Nuggets , in regular season or in the Playoffs .
I would have to say yes , I think they can and they will .
I mean Nugget fans and Suns fan are famous for dwelling on the past , when they were able to beat the Lakers , but now that the tide has turned and we have beaten both teams TWICE both at home and away .
We slauther the Suns at home by 23 points in Phx and we beat them at Staples by 7 .
Now the Nuggets I think you can recall the wooping you guys got by 28 at Staple center , and your loss at home by 4 , when we had our scrubs playing your starters .

So please feel free to let me know what makes you think that your beloved Nuggets and Im also addressing this to the Suns fans as well , since they also think that they are able to beat the Lakers come playoff time .
WHAT makes you guys think that you are even on the same level as the Lakers .

Please let me know ?

Peps need to realize that this isnt the same Laker team that you guys played against the past three years .

We are a domintaing force in the W.C , and I know how bad that makes you , your fans and other teams feel .

But if it makes you feel any better to disrespect Laker fans , then go ahead , but at the end of the day we are better than the Nuggets and the Suns since for the time being we have beaten you guys not once but twice .

[Bgil]

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Now, this statement is just WAY out there. The Nuggets have been the 4th best defensive team this season and average the 2nd most rebounds per game of any team in the league.

It's ok to think the Lakers would win (I think we would win too although it would be a tough series), but those statements are false.

they get a lot of rebounds because of the pace of the game. Look at their rebounding diff, it's negative so they obviously aren't dominating the boards if the opp is getting more rebounds than they do.

8th in FG%, 10th in PPS, tied for 23rd in opp 3pt percentage does not = 4th in defense.

[yunggunz]

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they get a lot of rebounds because of the pace of the game. Look at their rebounding diff, it's negative so they obviously aren't dominating the boards if the opp is getting more rebounds than they do.

Wait....so its okay to bring up the pace factor when we are talking about rebounding, but we should ignore it when we look at opponents ppg?

Shouldnt you be doing your pre-calc homework little boy?

[Bgil]

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Wait....so its okay to bring up the pace factor when we are talking about rebounding, but we should ignore it when we look at opponents ppg?

Shouldnt you be doing your pre-calc homework little boy?

you need READING COMPHRENSION classes bad. I didn't mention PPG it was PPS (points per shot), which given Denver's increased pace and less fouling SHOULD be rather low but it's not because their D sucks.

[yunggunz]

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you need READING COMPHRENSION classes bad. I didn't mention PPG it was PPS (points per shot), which given Denver's increased pace and less fouling SHOULD be rather low but it's not because their D sucks.

A) I dont know what READING COMPHRENSION classes are. Do you take that one third period or something?

B) Earlier in this thread you tried to discredit the pace factor when it benefited your argument

C)LMAO. And how could the "less fouling" be reflected in that stat? Oh thats right, it wouldnt. A team that gives up less at the line is likely to give up more per shot. Which is why that is an extremely flawed stat and points per possession is a much more accurate measure. And guess who gives up less points per possession?

[tkb]

they get a lot of rebounds because of the pace of the game. Look at their rebounding diff, it's negative so they obviously aren't dominating the boards if the opp is getting more rebounds than they do.

8th in FG%, 10th in PPS, tied for 23rd in opp 3pt percentage does not = 4th in defense.

4th least points per 100 possessions allowed (which incorporates fg%, 3p%, ft% ft/fg etc) = 4th in defense.

[tkb]

Denver creates the 3rd most turnovers, they are 7th in ft relative to fg, and they are above average in defensive eFG%. All indicate that they are way above average in defense (which would be way better than "sucks").

[Bgil]

From ESPN:
* PPS: Points Per Shot = PTS/FGA

Free throws are included in PTS but not in FGA. The meaning here is just like a player who shoots a really low percentage but a ton of free throws can have a very good PPS (think: historical AI). However, that's not the case with Denver they foul less but give up higher percentages (particularly at the 3 point line).

B) Earlier in this thread you tried to discredit the pace factor when it benefited your argument

Weaksauce. Rebounding and PPG numbers mean nothing without considering pace and/or diff. Denver scores more and rebounds more than Boston but they damn sure aren't a better team once you figure in the diff or pace. Denver, statistically, gets outrebounded so obviously they aren't dominating the boards in anyway. Their PTS diff is also not very big... another sign that they aren't a great defensive team.