Would you guys agree we are subpar at PF/SG/PG?

[OrlandoMagic]

we ar only subpar at SG and PF imo. Nelson might not be one of the top PGs in the league but he isnt anywhere near one of the worst either.

[TNMagicFan]

Wallace is a shell of what he used to be . He would make life hard offensively for Dwight clogging the lane . Plus that huge contract .Duhon we could use though. I'm sure Chicago would jump all over a chance to dump Wallace .

[MagicFan32]

I would say we've lost atleast five games because we get no rebounds from anyone but Dwight, this is why I would even be happy with Kurt Thomas, good post defender and rebounder..this frees up dwight to block more shots, and hits the mid range J with regularity.

Maybe Sac would move Bibby for expirings, youth and/or picks and if that's the case maybe you can salvage Hedo to get your big, or try and be creative and keep him and make a move for Kurt Thomas.

Not that I believe Otis has the creativity to do anything like this.

[MagicFan32]

Oh here's another name for you guys

Joe Smith, he's playing very well for the Bulls, and if they continue to play poorly maybe they would trade him.

[UKMagic]

We've been sussed out...essentially we're very good in 2 areas, suck in 2 areas (starter wise) and are very weak in the other. No we cannot and will not contend with the current bunch....

[The Letter J]

The Magic need a lot.

A legitimate 2G or a decent PF would stop some of the leakage.

Getting one or the other still doesn't fix the problem.

Agreed, but I would still start at PF.

[lovehoops01]

-= original quote snipped =-


A lot. Other teams are still going to get penetration on us as well as open jumpers if we get a new PG. The difference in having a real PF would mean no more lay-up drills ran on us (especially when Dwight is on the bench) and more rebounding support on missed shots.

We need a real PG, but we need a real PF first because we don't even have ONE decent PF on our roster.

I agree with the part about the power forward here. Plus, a lot of times the other team is not beating the Magic with the first shot -- they are getting the rebound and scoring on second- and third-chance points. Plus, there are a lot of loose balls that the Magic just get outhustled to. Jameer actually bails them out with this on some nights. I agree that they need someone like a David Lee -- an energy guy who can grab boards, get some steals and score on second chances, etc. I don't know what they would have to give up to make that happen.

I don't blame Rashard for this, by the way. Yes, he is playing the power forward. But the Magic are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by playing him at that spot. He is a small forward. He can play some spot minutes there for particular roles, though. Yeah, I know he is getting paid a lot. But playing a bruising power forward is not where his skills lie, and I've been saying that wasn't going to work since they first started talking about it.

I think that the Magic need to have complementary players at the shooting guard and point guard spots, not completely start over, and I don't think they have that now. If you want to have someone you consider a defensive shooting guard, then you need to have someone who can come in when you need points to light up the opponents. Can J.J. provide that role? I don't know. If you want to keep Jameer at point guard, which it seems they at least want to keep him on the roster, then they also need a bigger point guard with a defensive mentality to try to at least take the opponent's best point guard out of his comfort zone or to try to get key stops on guys like Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups especially.

The Magic need more players to take defense seriously, no doubt. They cannot win by allowing their opponents to shoot better than 50 percent every night -- Stan is correct about that. You'd think that these players would get tired of busting their butts every night and then getting an L when they can't outscore their opponents. They've played half-a-season now. They should see that it is not working. If it were me, if that wasn't working for me on a regular basis, I'd try playing a little defense so I'd get rewarded for my hard work. Just the amount of buzzer-beaters alone that opponents are making against the Magic should jump out at them.

[sixerdave]

I've been impressed by the Howard/Lewis/Hedo trio this year. But I do agree with you guys that to compete, you need more.

It could be easier to find a center than a PF and to slide Howard over to PF, which would allow Lewis to move back to SF.

I don't think the Golden State idea is even remotely possible. If Ellis was traded, it would be in a trade for a dominant player, which in the scenario here there is not one.

Is there any interest in Andre Miller? It would allow Nelson to come off the bench. I don't know how much of an upgrade you feel Miller is over Nelson, but I can assure you he would be an upgrade as far as setting tempo and getting the ball to players where they need it.

How fair would Miller/filler for Garrity/DoolingRedick/future #1 be? We in Philly land aren't sure what the public perception of Miller is.

[Duiz]

I think Chris Webber is open, I think you should pursue him. But Hedo I think should be handy enough.

[MagicalMan]

I would be ok with trading Hedo because his value is high at the moment. Buy low, sell high. For who im not sure.

[MagicalMan]

Is there any interest in Andre Miller? It would allow Nelson to come off the bench. I don't know how much of an upgrade you feel Miller is over Nelson, but I can assure you he would be an upgrade as far as setting tempo and getting the ball to players where they need it.

How fair would Miller/filler for Garrity/DoolingRedick/future #1 be? We in Philly land aren't sure what the public perception of Miller is.

Id do that deal to get Miller. Id give up any guard, pick, and hedo to get Miller.

[spinedoc]

I've been thinking about Sacramento as a trading partner lately too. Apparently the Cavs are trying to get Bibby, but the Kings want them to take on K.Thomas' contract as well. That would mean the Cavs would have to come up with almost 21M in salary and go over the luxury tax by a bunch, which they are very reluctant to do. It looks like a deal breaker for them. I think we have enough salary, assets, and the willingness to go over the luxury tax, to take both Bibby and Thomas if they also include Artest. They look like they are going to go on a rebuild, and to do that they need to dump salary. I doubt Artest would want to stick around for that anyway. Taking the two rumors of this, and the previous Hedo for Artest one, I came up with a combo that could work for both teams.

Sac:
Bibby-13.5
Artest-7.8
K.Thomas-7.3
=28.6M

Orl:
Hedo-6.4
Battie-5.2
Arroyo-4
Garrity-3.8
JJ-2
Dooling-3.5
1st rd pick '08
=24.9M

I know it looks like we are gutting the entire roster, and they wouldn't have room for everyone, but the only ones of value that the Kings would keep would be Hedo, JJ, Battie for next year, and Arroyo for the rest of this year. So its really essentially a three for three deal. Garrity would just retire, and they would more than likely cut Dooling because of their depth there. We could even resign Keyon once he cleared waivers if we choose. By taking all of our expiring contracts, the Kings save over 16M next year by doing this. The two rosters would look something like this:

ORL:
pg-bibby,nelson
sg-artest,bogans
sf-lewis,evans
pf-k.thomas,cook,auggie
c-howard,foyle,gortat

SAC:
pg-udrih,arroyo,douby
sg-garcia,JJ,d.jones
sf-martin,salmons
pf-hedo,m.moore
c-miller,hawes
ir-SAR,battie

It doesn't solve our pf problem, but we at least get another rebounder, albeit an undersized one with Thomas. With Cook coming back, Auggie scrapping for minutes, and Gortat yet to see any time, plus the ability of Lewis to play some time there, it should be sufficient for the rest of this year. With our only hole, we can then use the mle next year on a more permanent pf. But most importantly, we get our fixture at sg with Artest, and a significant upgrade at pg with Bibby. Jameer could play all the backup minutes and even play with Bibby as a Ben Gordon type at sg some. His minutes would be reduced, but not as much as he would think.

Sacramento would get a manageable payroll in the mid 40M range and allow the ability for their young guys of Garica and Martin to get more playing time, and be very flexible with guys like Hedo, JJ, Salmons, and Jones coming off the bench. Hedo could fill in at pf the rest of this year until SAR and Battie come back healthy for them. With Brad and Hawes in the middle, thats a pretty solid team. Then they can take their two first round picks and fill in the holes. They would need a new pg of the future with Bibby gone, so I'm sure their first pick would go towards that. Arroyo and M.Moore could be resigned at that point even or just let them walk as short term rentals. Its an expensive move for us, but one that would make us a legit contender for a title imo.

[laVal03]

I like Jameer alot, I really do but as the season goes on I think that is one of the biggest needs b/c we will have Battie back next year and he fits perfectly, I think.
If we had a very good pass-first/defending pg and a good defending/rebounding pf I think we would be alright at sg

don't get me wrong we could do better at sg but I don't think it is as big of a need as the other two

I still believe we could have and should have gotten more from the ariza trade, he would be a nice trading chip or backup to rashard if hedo was shipped

[lovehoops01]

I've been thinking about Sacramento as a trading partner lately too. Apparently the Cavs are trying to get Bibby, but the Kings want them to take on K.Thomas' contract as well. That would mean the Cavs would have to come up with almost 21M in salary and go over the luxury tax by a bunch, which they are very reluctant to do. It looks like a deal breaker for them. I think we have enough salary, assets, and the willingness to go over the luxury tax, to take both Bibby and Thomas if they also include Artest. They look like they are going to go on a rebuild, and to do that they need to dump salary. I doubt Artest would want to stick around for that anyway. Taking the two rumors of this, and the previous Hedo for Artest one, I came up with a combo that could work for both teams.

Sac:
Bibby-13.5
Artest-7.8
K.Thomas-7.3
=28.6M

Orl:
Hedo-6.4
Battie-5.2
Arroyo-4
Garrity-3.8
JJ-2
Dooling-3.5
1st rd pick '08
=24.9M

I know it looks like we are gutting the entire roster, and they wouldn't have room for everyone, but the only ones of value that the Kings would keep would be Hedo, JJ, Battie for next year, and Arroyo for the rest of this year. So its really essentially a three for three deal. Garrity would just retire, and they would more than likely cut Dooling because of their depth there. We could even resign Keyon once he cleared waivers if we choose. By taking all of our expiring contracts, the Kings save over 16M next year by doing this. The two rosters would look something like this:

ORL:
pg-bibby,nelson
sg-artest,bogans
sf-lewis,evans
pf-k.thomas,cook,auggie
c-howard,foyle,gortat

SAC:
pg-udrih,arroyo,douby
sg-garcia,JJ,d.jones
sf-martin,salmons
pf-hedo,m.moore
c-miller,hawes
ir-SAR,battie

It doesn't solve our pf problem, but we at least get another rebounder, albeit an undersized one with Thomas. With Cook coming back, Auggie scrapping for minutes, and Gortat yet to see any time, plus the ability of Lewis to play some time there, it should be sufficient for the rest of this year. With our only hole, we can then use the mle next year on a more permanent pf. But most importantly, we get our fixture at sg with Artest, and a significant upgrade at pg with Bibby. Jameer could play all the backup minutes and even play with Bibby as a Ben Gordon type at sg some. His minutes would be reduced, but not as much as he would think.

Sacramento would get a manageable payroll in the mid 40M range and allow the ability for their young guys of Garica and Martin to get more playing time, and be very flexible with guys like Hedo, JJ, Salmons, and Jones coming off the bench. Hedo could fill in at pf the rest of this year until SAR and Battie come back healthy for them. With Brad and Hawes in the middle, thats a pretty solid team. Then they can take their two first round picks and fill in the holes. They would need a new pg of the future with Bibby gone, so I'm sure their first pick would go towards that. Arroyo and M.Moore could be resigned at that point even or just let them walk as short term rentals. Its an expensive move for us, but one that would make us a legit contender for a title imo.

Please....no.

Those all are high priced players to risk making a mistake on.

And I'm guessing that Artest wouldn't be here after this season even if they made that deal.

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



Please....no.

Those all are high priced players to risk making a mistake on.

And I'm guessing that Artest wouldn't be here after this season even if they made that deal.

Artest has an 8.5M player option next year. Its possible someone would pay him that much or more, but I doubt it. We clearly aren't where we want to be with our current lineup, so we need to use those contracts to get more talent on this team. Considering no one is going to give us something good for expirings alone, we probably would have to take a big contract or two. Bibby and Artest to go along with Lewis and Howard, would make us a powerhouse in the east.

[MagicalMan]

Artest would probably still opt out, unless he wants to play 4th fiddle behind Dwight, Lewis, and Bibby. Plus Artest is infatuated with the Knicks, hed probably go there for less money.

Either way you run a risk of having less talent next year.