Jerry West to NY???

[truth serum]

^sweet post

[PrecociousNeoph]

canning Isiah and hiring Jerry West or Jerry Colangelo would make sense. therefore, it will not happen.

[drj]

-= original quote snipped =-



If Dolan does indeed insist on making the playoffs every season, I don't think the new GM should worry much, considering Isiah's been here four years while the team has been 8 games, 18 games, and 8 games under .500 in the past three seasons respectively. The new GM should have a three or four year window to work with, regardless of what Dolan's expectations are for the team, going by past history.

And there are very few owners in the league who give full control to GM's. Even the best owners like Mark Cuban and Paul Allen like to be involved on some level, and have some needs their GM's have to satisfy. Part of being a good GM is satisfying the owner while still building a winning franchise, and it's not that hard to do. Any halfway competent GM should be able to roll out of bed in the morning and do at the very least a decent job with the assets Dolan affords this team in terms financial flexibility.

When you combine the financial flexibility Dolan affords his GM's, the generous contracts those GM's are awarded, and the ridiculous level of job security these GM's have, regardless of job performance, being the GM of the Knicks is easily one of the best jobs in the league. The problem is we just haven't had anyone competent in that role in the better part of a decade.

Good points JoeT, and you are right that total control is unrealistic.

Still, the scenario I am worried about is (i) a guy like West or Colangelo looks at our roster and thinks 'the only way to really fix this team is to blow up the roster, tank for another year or two, and emerge in 2-3 years with young talent and capspace', but (ii) Dolan insists against rebuilding.

Overall I think a lot of guys are going to be gunshy about the NYK job, given the intense and poisonous media scrutiny and MSG politics, how badly Layden and Thomas fared, and the current state of the roster. I am not convinced that we are going to be able to bring in an 'all-star' GM without Dolan giving control, or at least a lot of assurances...

[MANSNY]

Jerry West
*Selected forward Drew Gooden (4th overall pick) center Robert Archibald (32nd overall pick).
Traded guard Nick Anderson and the draft rights to forward Matt Barnes to the Cleveland Cavaliers for guard Wesley Person.
Traded a 2003 second-round draft pick to the Milwaukee Bucks for the draft rights to Chris Owens.
*Traded forward Drew Gooden, guard Gordan Giricek and cash considerations to the Orlando Magic for forwards Mike Miller and Ryan Humphrey, a first-round draft pick and a 2004 second-round draft pick
*Announced the resignation of Sidney Lowe; named Hubie Brown coach.
*Signed forward James Posey to an offer sheet.
*Signed forward Brian Cardinal.
*Selected forward Hakim Warrick (19th overall pick).
*Selected guard Kyle Lowry (24th overall pick).
*Selected guard Mike Conley (4th overall pick).

[blueNorange]

Jerry West
*Selected forward Drew Gooden (4th overall pick) center Robert Archibald (32nd overall pick).
Traded guard Nick Anderson and the draft rights to forward Matt Barnes to the Cleveland Cavaliers for guard Wesley Person.
Traded a 2003 second-round draft pick to the Milwaukee Bucks for the draft rights to Chris Owens.
*Traded forward Drew Gooden, guard Gordan Giricek and cash considerations to the Orlando Magic for forwards Mike Miller and Ryan Humphrey, a first-round draft pick and a 2004 second-round draft pick
*Announced the resignation of Sidney Lowe; named Hubie Brown coach.
*Signed forward James Posey to an offer sheet.
*Signed forward Brian Cardinal.
*Selected forward Hakim Warrick (19th overall pick).
*Selected guard Kyle Lowry (24th overall pick).
*Selected guard Mike Conley (4th overall pick).

Didn't West trade Battier for the draft rights of Rudy Gay??

[JoeT]

-= original quote snipped =-



Good points JoeT, and you are right that total control is unrealistic.

Still, the scenario I am worried about is (i) a guy like West or Colangelo looks at our roster and thinks 'the only way to really fix this team is to blow up the roster, tank for another year or two, and emerge in 2-3 years with young talent and capspace', but (ii) Dolan insists against rebuilding.

Overall I think a lot of guys are going to be gunshy about the NYK job, given the intense and poisonous media scrutiny and MSG politics, how badly Layden and Thomas fared, and the current state of the roster. I am not convinced that we are going to be able to bring in an 'all-star' GM without Dolan giving control, or at least a lot of assurances...

I'd be very gunshy about coaching the Knicks, based on the current roster and the way coaches seem to get blamed for everything here by the brass. I don't think I'd feel the same way about being the GM, though. It's great money, you have great job security, you're afforded every asset you can think of, and there's nowhere to go but up after the performance of the past two GM's.

As for Dolan not allowing a rebuild, I don't really know about that. First off, Isiah's been claiming he's rebuilding since he drafted Lee, Frye, and Nate three years ago, and Dolan lets that fly. We obviously have not been rebuilding, considering everyone in the starting lineup has at least six or seven years experience in the league, and everyone's pretty much in their prime or just about to enter it, but that's beside the point.

And regardless, I don't think the standard rebuild is in the Knicks' best interest. If you try to get under the cap, you take away one of the Knicks' best strengths, and that's spending money. Many fans and pundits think the only answer for this team is cap space, because they've witnessed what can happen if you give ridiculous financial flexibility to someone who doesn't know what he's doing, but when used wisely, the Knicks' money could be a HUGE advantage. We can use the MLE every year, we can buy draft picks for cash, we can take on salary to acquire draft picks, we can spend over the cap, we can have the deepest and most expensive coaching staff, etc. The flexibility is definitely a double-edged sword, but with someone smart, it can be a ridiculous advantage.

The kind of rebuild the Knicks need to undergo is stocking up on draft picks and young talent, but not aiming for cap space. That doesn't mean adding six-year, unwanted contracts whenever you can, but you take on a year or two of a bad contract from another team to grab a mid first round pick. You give a team 2million cash to buy a late first round pick. You buy a few second round picks and stash some international players overseas. You spend the MLE wisely on young, talented players coming off their rookie contracts, like Mickael Pietrus or Antoine Wright or Ryan Gomes or Delonte West this year.

Where Isiah went wrong is giving away picks/prospects for highly flawed players like Marbury, Curry, Randolph, Francis, Mo Taylor, etc. Take those moves away and this team would be headed in the right direction. Add better MLE signings like Pachulia instead of James and Anthony Parker instead of Jeffries and Kapono instead of no one, and things look even better.

So you get rid of the extremely flawed core players like Marbury, Curry, and Randolph. You suck for two years or so, add two top-10 picks to the fray, and build around them with all the other assets you're able to acquire through the above methods.

Would a new GM even need to sell Dolan on two years of sucking to put such a plan into motion? I don't see Dolan firing someone for two years of sucking, given the slack he's given Isiah.

[VinnyTheMick]

Dolan should not listen to any recommendations from Magic this time around...

[DDV]

-= original quote snipped =-



Good points JoeT, and you are right that total control is unrealistic.

Still, the scenario I am worried about is (i) a guy like West or Colangelo looks at our roster and thinks 'the only way to really fix this team is to blow up the roster, tank for another year or two, and emerge in 2-3 years with young talent and capspace', but (ii) Dolan insists against rebuilding.

Overall I think a lot of guys are going to be gunshy about the NYK job, given the intense and poisonous media scrutiny and MSG politics, how badly Layden and Thomas fared, and the current state of the roster. I am not convinced that we are going to be able to bring in an 'all-star' GM without Dolan giving control, or at least a lot of assurances...

I'd be very gunshy about coaching the Knicks, based on the current roster and the way coaches seem to get blamed for everything here by the brass. I don't think I'd feel the same way about being the GM, though. It's great money, you have great job security, you're afforded every asset you can think of, and there's nowhere to go but up after the performance of the past two GM's.

As for Dolan not allowing a rebuild, I don't really know about that. First off, Isiah's been claiming he's rebuilding since he drafted Lee, Frye, and Nate three years ago, and Dolan lets that fly. We obviously have not been rebuilding, considering everyone in the starting lineup has at least six or seven years experience in the league, and everyone's pretty much in their prime or just about to enter it, but that's beside the point.

And regardless, I don't think the standard rebuild is in the Knicks' best interest. If you try to get under the cap, you take away one of the Knicks' best strengths, and that's spending money. Many fans and pundits think the only answer for this team is cap space, because they've witnessed what can happen if you give ridiculous financial flexibility to someone who doesn't know what he's doing, but when used wisely, the Knicks' money could be a HUGE advantage. We can use the MLE every year, we can buy draft picks for cash, we can take on salary to acquire draft picks, we can spend over the cap, we can have the deepest and most expensive coaching staff, etc. The flexibility is definitely a double-edged sword, but with someone smart, it can be a ridiculous advantage.

The kind of rebuild the Knicks need to undergo is stocking up on draft picks and young talent, but not aiming for cap space. That doesn't mean adding six-year, unwanted contracts whenever you can, but you take on a year or two of a bad contract from another team to grab a mid first round pick. You give a team 2million cash to buy a late first round pick. You buy a few second round picks and stash some international players overseas. You spend the MLE wisely on young, talented players coming off their rookie contracts, like Mickael Pietrus or Antoine Wright or Ryan Gomes or Delonte West this year.

Where Isiah went wrong is giving away picks/prospects for highly flawed players like Marbury, Curry, Randolph, Francis, Mo Taylor, etc. Take those moves away and this team would be headed in the right direction. Add better MLE signings like Pachulia instead of James and Anthony Parker instead of Jeffries and Kapono instead of no one, and things look even better.

So you get rid of the extremely flawed core players like Marbury, Curry, and Randolph. You suck for two years or so, add two top-10 picks to the fray, and build around them with all the other assets you're able to acquire through the above methods.

Would a new GM even need to sell Dolan on two years of sucking to put such a plan into motion? I don't see Dolan firing someone for two years of sucking, given the slack he's given Isiah.

i understand what youre talking about with using our advantages dolan gives us in spending but i think u can get under the cap then still do that after you sign the players u want in free agency by adding other players after because dolan doesnt mind paying the luxury tax..

i dont think trying to get under the caop means we wont use our advantages it jsut means we wont do it till we get under the cap and sign free agents who arent as flawed as the players we get through trades..

[JoeT]

By the way, the Portland model of the past three years is exactly the model the next GM needs to adopt. What I outlined in my previous post is exactly what Portland has done. Buying extra draft picks, taking on contracts like Lafrentz to help add another draft pick, stocking players overseas to go beyond the roster limits, building around youth, etc.

[mjhp911]

I think the real question is:
Will Dolan give the new GM total control over decisions?

Guys like West and Colangelo are not going to come into a situation where Dolan insists on trying to make the playoffs every year, and will not offer them total control.

Thank you. Neither guy is going to want to come here, given the restrictions. The best we can hope for is a Donnie Walsh (if we can pry him from Indy). He's already 're-tooled' before. Besides...

My only concern with West is he really didn't do a great job in Memphis. He didn't have a lot to work with but... still. It's a little concerning.

Agreed. I think the game has passed West by. I don't think he retired from Memphis because he wants a better gig. I think he retired because he's still a proud man, and he knows he no longer has it.

[DDV]

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Agreed. I think the game has passed West by. I don't think he retired from Memphis because he wants a better gig. I think he retired because he's still a proud man, and he knows he no longer has it.

that battier for rudy gay trade the last move he made is working out pretty well

he also got a awful franchise to 50 wins

and lets not froget the first year he got there the grizzlies were horrible but didnt have a pick on that melo lebron wade bosh draft because they traded it for otis thorpe

if u would have added one of those stars from that draft the grizzlies would be in much better shape..

[superjay779]

if one of these guys comes here i will cry with happiness

I did that when we hired Larry.

[Slimpack]

-= original quote snipped =-



Agreed. I think the game has passed West by. I don't think he retired from Memphis because he wants a better gig. I think he retired because he's still a proud man, and he knows he no longer has it.

Dolan's restrictions don't seem to be too tight, based on how long he's kept Isiah. I doubt he'd insist on making the playoffs, he for the most part didn't in Isiah's tenure.

[HarthorneWingo]

Im surprise no one has posted this. I would love to have either or.

From the Lakers board:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wants Knicks GM job?
Posted: Friday January 11, 2008 06:15AM ET

(picture)

Has the bizarre behavior of Isiah Thomas finally cost him? Jerry West and Jerry Colangelo eagerly await James Dolan's call. FYI: Contrary to inaccurate talk-show babble and an unswerving disregard for doing homework on all fronts by Daily News columnist Mitch Lawrence, both free agent executives would welcome the challenge to re-wire the Garden.

New York Post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Dolan gets West or Colangelo and gives them his vote of confidence i would back of Dolan. I think he is the perfect owner to have for an nba team if he had an excellent staff. The only problem is that Dolan is usually to dumb to hire a competent GM. Imagine what Colangelo or West would do with all the money Dolan dishes out.

Scary Good

Source? Link?

[NYKBaller]

that would be a miracle........straight extacsy

[Smoke24]

that would be a miracle........straight extacsy

I bet thats how some on this board felt when Isiah became GM and El Presidente to replace Layden

[superjay779]

I know when I thought the Isaiah hiring was a great move when it frist happened.

[nyknicks2k2]

Forget how much of an upgrade West would be on the GM front.

The Knicks would finally receive respect. West is a liked person. We wouldn't have GM's not wanting to trade with us because of past history with our GM.

[JoeT]

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I bet thats how some on this board felt when Isiah became GM and El Presidente to replace Layden

Well Isiah has a track record as a repeated failure in all things business. Jerry Colangelo is the anti-thesis of Isiah as an executive. He's a four-time NBA Executive of the Year, has been behind tons of major moves in sports, owning the Diamondbacks and Suns at one time, while helping to bring the Coyotes to Phoenix in the NHL. He's won a world series in baseball. He's had two teams reach the Finals in the NBA and had a streak of 13 straight playoff seasons in the late 80's and early 90's. He's now partly responsible for the remake of Team USA since the 2004 debacle as well. He's an extremely successful and competent businessman. He's exactly what we need.

[DaGoodz]

I'll believe it when it happens. just fire Isiah before he trades our 1st for T-Mac. Cause I know he's itching to do it