JJ Demands Trade?

[flyingvee]

i wouldnt say hes been treated badly here, and I think he does fit with the team, but it seems svg gives him his chances at THE worst possible times...

THis thing about being a 'fit' for the team is getting old. Ariza wasn't a fit either. For a team that lacks any legit PG, SG and PF we should be the last team saying someone is NOT a fit.

As for JJ, I remember Steve Alford doing less in college than JJ yet being able to at least get soem burn his few year sin the NBA when the talent level was higher. Now in a watered down NBA JJ is beign made to sound like a scrub, and by a lot of the same people who thought Diener was good. I'd liek to see JJ go to some team that needs a shooter and wind up averaging 14-15 ppg. So his defense is at question. So what. So is Bogans. Some people try to make Bogans sound like he's a defensivestopper like a Gary Payton in his prime.

[CraZyPraiZ]

^^^^ I agree with the post about JJ helping out on D way too much. However this could be corrected over time. No one here thinks JJ will be a superstar, however how he can't get floor time on a pathetically weak defensive non rebounding team is beyond me. Soft is the team as a whole as I can count the times we have taken a charge this season on one hand. Put JJ out there with Dwight and the others and he will get his points. As long as you put him out there with Foyle, Augustine and some other scrubs then that is a recipe for suicide as far as JJ is concerned. I've said this before on other forums and take it for what it is worth. JJ has lost all desire and hope for this organization. He probably has an attitude in practice ( I could see why) and is just collecting his check. My desire is that they trade him to a team that can use him right as he is wasted space on our bench. Also these dumb **** need to hire a scout that can actually help this team every once in a while and not once every ten years. Have any of you ever seen our draft history?

[drsd]

Well, another DNPCD for Redick. I wonder if Auggie and Cook are teaching Redick any new hand games (war, scissors, etc).

Also, is Gortat even at games?

[maginno]

JJ has not shown that he can produce, despite what some people say and want to believe.

Utter hogwash. Stick to college ball. You can make a very good case that he cannot play on a team with defensive liabilities because he is a huge one what no one with even a semblance of basketball IQ can say is that he hasn't shown he can produce. He's shown he can put the ball in the hoop over and over again. in the NBA thats production. JJ with a good 15 minutes a game would average double digits and I'd say at 20 minutes hit in the twenties from time to time.

I guess the piece that reported a number of teams are interested in trading for him is just made up right? Or you know more than a number of Gms. Many a player cannot get mintues on a team and go elsewhere and do fine. JJ needs a team that can cover for his defence.

As for Wednesday being a disaster as stated by hoops and afew others. Give me a break. That was an almost sabotage lineup he played with. IF you are serious about utilizing him he would need to play with Dwight for good minutes.

No. Its not a conspiracy by SVG. JJ just can't play for a team that already has lousy team defense. JJ fans might as well get used to seeing him in another uniform. I say that in February he's gone. Knowing Otis he'll probably trade him for a second round pick and a guy that plays defense like Cook's younger shorter sister.

[maginno]

Incidentally shouldn't it be embarrassing to say Reddick will never make it in this league when the same thing was being said about Ariza because he doesn't have a jumpshot? There he is playing for a Future Hall of Fame coach just two minutes short of 20 minutes each night and has doubled his production still relatively new to an entirely different system.

[LBPTarHeel27]

Incidentally shouldn't it be embarrassing to say Reddick will never make it in this league when the same thing was being said about Ariza because he doesn't have a jumpshot? There he is playing for a Future Hall of Fame coach just two minutes short of 20 minutes each night and has doubled his production still relatively new to an entirely different system.

You can't compare Ariza and Redick.

Ariza has all the skills and intangibles that you CAN'T teach. Redick is missing all of those.

[LBPTarHeel27]

-= original quote snipped =-



Utter hogwash. Stick to college ball. You can make a very good case that he cannot play on a team with defensive liabilities because he is a huge one what no one with even a semblance of basketball IQ can say is that he hasn't shown he can produce. He's shown he can put the ball in the hoop over and over again. in the NBA thats production. JJ with a good 15 minutes a game would average double digits and I'd say at 20 minutes hit in the twenties from time to time.

When has he shown in the NBA that he can produce? Hitting 2 or 3 shots in one game every 5 or 6 games is not producing. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about if you think JJ would AVERAGE double digits...ESPECIALLY if he is only averaging 15 minutes a game.

THERE IS NOT 1...NOT 1....PLAYER IN THE NBA AVERAGING 10+ PPG GETTING UNDER 20 MPG.

The 150th leading scorer in the NBA right now is getting 7.3 points in 23.3 minutes. Ahead of him...ONLY 3 PLAYERS are averaging less than 20 MPG and getting more points than him. Keyon Dooling actually happens to be one.

I guess the piece that reported a number of teams are interested in trading for him is just made up right? Or you know more than a number of Gms. Many a player cannot get mintues on a team and go elsewhere and do fine. JJ needs a team that can cover for his defence.

Yes, I am sure a team or two are interested in getting him. But what do you think they are willing to give up? If there were an offer out there that was even half way decent, we would move JJ...we have no need for him and that has been said by many.

Also, the fact that you take the wiretap stories so seriously is a joke in itself. 99% of the stuff that comes across it is either not true or doesn't happen.

Everyone keeps saying to put him on a team that can cover up his bad D. That right there says it alone that he is not a capable NBA player. If you can't handle your own, how can you expect to be a good NBA player. He can shoot when open. So can any other NBA player, that is what they are paid to do. The difference between JJ and others on OFFENSE is the fact that JJ has no ability to get open on his own and can't dribble to get his own shot.

[LBPTarHeel27]

JJ with a good 15 minutes a game would average double digits and I'd say at 20 minutes hit in the twenties from time to time.

Quick list of just a few of the 150 players you are claiming JJ is better than offensively...

Michael Finley
Kirk Hinrich
AK47
Big Z
Drew Gooden
Jason Kidd
Sheed
Mike Miller
Shawn Marion
Zach Randolph
Jason Terry
Al Harrington

Do you really want me to go on to the even better guys?

[LBPTarHeel27]

bump...I really wanna hear maginno's reply.

[maginno]

-= original quote snipped =-

Also, the fact that you take the wiretap stories so seriously is a joke in itself. 99% of the stuff that comes across it is either not true or doesn't happen.

Is the sentinel article wiretap? Your GM is one of the sources. Ask before you make yourself look foolish again.

Everyone keeps saying to put him on a team that can cover up his bad D. That right there says it alone that he is not a capable NBA player.

SO there are no NBA players that stick in the league that are defensive liabilities? How old are you?

OFFENSE is the fact that JJ has no ability to get open on his own and can't dribble to get his own shot.

Read that from the JJ Haters Manual because I have seen him get open and pop a shot and you are being silly anyway because the whole point of having a three point shooter with Dwight is to kick the ball out to the open three point shooter.

THERE IS NOT 1...NOT 1....PLAYER IN THE NBA AVERAGING 10+ PPG GETTING UNDER 20 MPG.

Obviously not Einstein because if you are a prolific scorer like that then you would warrant more minutes.

The 150th leading scorer in the NBA right now is getting 7.3 points in 23.3 minutes.

Who cares about right now? In Kapono' second year (three point specialist in his second year just like JJ) he averaged nearly 9 points in 18 minutes. Do I think JJ has a better shot than Kapono - Yes - no doubt. 15 minutes was just a round number off the top of my head for me so I'll give you the three minutes differential. If you put JJ in it should be because you want him to take shots not the way he is being utilized now where he deliberately is taking few shots in effort to prove to the coach he can defend. Under those circumstances JJ doing 10 in say to be exact now 17-18 minutes - doable.

Of course no one said JJ would average 20+ points. I said he would occasionally score that with 20+ minutes.

Listen I don't even follow college ball. Certainly was never a Duke fan. I get that those of you who do follow college ball hate the guy because he scorched your teams chances. You now you think you can exact a certain amount of revenge for the hurting he put on your hopes and dreams by putting him down but I stand by it. Even other hardened JJ detractors on this board have said he's shown enough to get more minutes. LIVE WITH IT. Its a pretty known consensus on this board so I am not alone. Can he flourish on a team that stinks on defense even without him? Nope so he probably should be traded but your overstatement of him having not shown he can produce remains just gibberish nonsense.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I hate when you JJ defenders never come up with hard evidence to support anything you say...I have yet to find a single person that can honestly out argue me on the point. It always comes down to just knocking me and my knowledge...yet I am the only one with numbers and facts to support my argument.

That being said...here we go again...

Is the sentinel article wiretap? Your GM is one of the sources. Ask before you make yourself look foolish again.

The wiretap is media. The sentinel is media. You are going to tell me you trust the media? How much of what you read about sports teams as far as trade rumors and player movement actually happens? For every 100 rumors, it seems like 1 thing actually happens....and that is being generous.

"My GM" is also notorious for saying the exact opposite of what the truth actually is. Ask around before you make comments like that one.

SO there are no NBA players that stick in the league that are defensive liabilities? How old are you?

I apologize. There are defensive liabilities in the league that still make it. JJ won't make it, and hasn't cracked our rotation yet because...

He has no man to man defense.
Can't help with a teammates man because he can't get back to his own (his BIGGEST problem, IMO)
Bad dribbler
Can't create his own shot
Bad court vision
Can't rebound
No back to the basket game (obviously not Dwight style, but like a lot of SG's in the league)
He may not be a slow runner but basketball is a game of quickness...and JJ has none.
Amazingly unathletic
Weak
Short

Find me another player that has a resume like that but still plays 15-20 MPG....there are none.

Read that from the JJ Haters Manual because I have seen him get open and pop a shot and you are being silly anyway because the whole point of having a three point shooter with Dwight is to kick the ball out to the open three point shooter.

Obviously the reason we drafted JJ was to shoot threes. No one is saying he can't do that. The reason he doesn't get in the game is because we have other capable shooters who are FAR superior in EVERY other aspect of the game(which isn't saying much because we have an awful stock of SG's).

Obviously not Einstein because if you are a prolific scorer like that then you would warrant more minutes.

Well then how many minutes do you think JJ should play? Because if he would score double digits in 15-20 minutes, then according to your logic he should be playing more minutes than that. I was just basing my numbers off of what you said. You give me more numbers and I will prove them wrong again.

Who cares about right now? In Kapono' second year (three point specialist in his second year just like JJ) he averaged nearly 9 points in 18 minutes. Do I think JJ has a better shot than Kapono - Yes - no doubt. 15 minutes was just a round number off the top of my head for me so I'll give you the three minutes differential. If you put JJ in it should be because you want him to take shots not the way he is being utilized now where he deliberately is taking few shots in effort to prove to the coach he can defend. Under those circumstances JJ doing 10 in say to be exact now 17-18 minutes - doable.

Who cares about right now? Well, everyone was making this same argument against me last season...soooooo when does "right now" matter? When he is 3 years in? 4 years in? When he is 30? I guess this is where my "college game" smarts come in....

Which, before I get to my point...brings up another point. Everything you are saying about JJ having a better shot than Kapono is based off of your knowledge of JJ in college. You, nor has anyone else, seen enough of JJ in the NBA to say that his shot will be just as good in the pros as it was in college. It is a longer shot, MUCH better defenders on him, and more pressure. Kapono is money from outside IN THE NBA, and he has proven it for a few years now. What has JJ shown? Nothing. The games he has got in, he looks lost but will hit the occasional open jump shot...nothing more.

Kapono, even in college, was a much more complete player. I am by no means saying that Kapono is a defensive stopper or Kobe when it comes to getting his own shot. But when it comes to creating a shot, playing defense, and so on...it does help that Kapono is 6'8" 215 lbs as apposed to JJ's 6'4" 190 lbs. Pat Garrity is more evidence of this. While he is awful now, he did have some very good years here.

On a completely off topic note...because that is where you took your post with this...

Listen I don't even follow college ball. Certainly was never a Duke fan. I get that those of you who do follow college ball hate the guy because he scorched your teams chances. You now you think you can exact a certain amount of revenge for the hurting he put on your hopes and dreams by putting him down but I stand by it. Even other hardened JJ detractors on this board have said he's shown enough to get more minutes. LIVE WITH IT. Its a pretty known consensus on this board so I am not alone. Can he flourish on a team that stinks on defense even without him? Nope so he probably should be traded but your overstatement of him having not shown he can produce remains just gibberish nonsense.

JJ never did anything to my college team. Jackie Manuel continuously held him in check and UNC won a title while JJ was at Duke. JJ himself, or his team, never did a damn thing at Duke either.

JJ has not shown that he deserves more minutes. The play of our team at the SG position warrants it, if anything at all. JJ has done NOTHING. If your coach is coming out and calling you "soft", there is a problem with your play and you don't deserve minutes.

[LBPTarHeel27]

And in your next response...try to lay off of the name calling a little bit and just make points. Half of what you said was just useless attempts at a cutdown.

you make yourself look foolish again.

How old are you?

you are being silly

Obviously not Einstein

I get that those of you who do follow college ball hate the guy because he scorched your teams chances.

the hurting he put on your hopes and dreams

gibberish nonsense.

Come on now...you gatta be able to come up with something useful to say other than that.

[lovehoops01]

Incidentally shouldn't it be embarrassing to say Reddick will never make it in this league when the same thing was being said about Ariza because he doesn't have a jumpshot? There he is playing for a Future Hall of Fame coach just two minutes short of 20 minutes each night and has doubled his production still relatively new to an entirely different system.

Don't blame us -- or even Otis -- for saying that. SVG was the guy who couldn't find him court time. And for the record, even he didn't say that Ariza couldn't play in this league. He said they needed shooters around DWIGHT to open up the court. Isiah was the guy who said he'd never make it in the league because he couldn't shoot.

[OrlandoMagic]

can we lock this damn thred? im tired of seeing it bumbed to the top every 5 mins.

[magicfan217]

It's hard to say JJ can do this or cant do that when he's never been given any consistent minutes in the league.


He's not unathletic, in fact I think JJ is a pretty good athlete (hes certainly not among the nba's elite althletes but he's not the worst either). In limited time he has shown the ability to do some other things other than just spot up shoot. I've seen him drive and finish and drive and kick more than a few times this year.

What JJ needs is consistent PT and some plays run for him on offense. He would become a better defender if he got more minutes. You learn defense just like you learn offense and while JJ while never be even an above average defender IMO he could be a passable one. Hell, Jameer might be the worst defensive starter in the whole damn league and when continue to give him minutes. IMO JJ is/would be a better defender than meer if given minutes.


Again, it's hard to say what JJ can and cant do at this level because he's never been given 20+ minutes for a good 5-10 game stretch.

[maginno]

I hate when you JJ defenders never come up with hard evidence to support anything you say...I have yet to find a single person that can honestly out argue me on the point.

You've been out argued and you are the one with nothing to back your point. Obviously if the guy hasn't played the numbers won' be there so we are talking about talent level to your preposterous nonsense that he hasn't shown he can produce. Within the last three games he's shown twice he can score. Give it up. It will forever be nonsense. This is my last post on this.

The wiretap is media. The sentinel is media. You are going to tell me you trust the media? How much of what you read about sports teams as far as trade rumors

So in other words you just ignore the facts reported and selectively accept what you wish to believe. So much for backing up your points. Yes otis has been known to bend the truth a bit but bottom line is there is value for A second year pure shooter in this league and thats from multiple sources. You know nothing of this league that isn't reported to you by the "evil" media so playing ostrich is pointless.

He has no man to man defense.
Can't help with a teammates man because he can't get back to his own (his BIGGEST problem, IMO)
Bad dribbler
Can't create his own shot
Bad court vision
Can't rebound
No back to the basket game (obviously not Dwight style, but like a lot of SG's in the league)
He may not be a slow runner but basketball is a game of quickness...and JJ has none.
Amazingly unathletic
Weak
Short

See. Your bias is showing. You hate the guy from college thats all there is to it. JJ has no court vision? Give it up. He sees the floor better than some of our guards do. So much so there have been discussion about playing him at point (which admittedly is a stretch). He runs the break just fine which um last time I checked is athletic. Does he have a first quick step and slashing abilities no but he can turn on a dime and hit a three. I'll take it. If he is moving and can get his shot off I call that creating his own shot (Definitely he isn't going to break down an offense but I don't know many three point slingers known for that) Why do I say your bias is showing?

A guard at 6' 4 is too short to play in this league - utter nonsense #1
A three point shooting guard has to be a good rebounder - Utter nonsense#2

(IF he is at the three point line he isn't supposed to get offensive rebounds)

All guards in the NBA have to have a post up game - utter nonsense #3

Need I go on?

Find me another player that has a resume like that but still plays 15-20 MPG....there are none.

Plese consult what a resume means. Your attacks on him and baseless criteria is not his "resume"

The reason he doesn't get in the game is because we have other capable shooters who are FAR superior in EVERY other aspect of the game(which isn't saying much because we have an awful stock of SG's).

Yes of course thats why we are tearing up the league in rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams even when he isn't on the floor. Keep up the Ostrich stuff.

JJ never did anything to my college team. Jackie Manuel continuously held him in check and UNC won a title while JJ was at Duke. JJ himself, or his team, never did a damn thing at Duke either.

Thanks you. I touched the right button and you gave yourself right away finally. Your bias was showing a little before but now its just plain naked. JJ never did a"damn thing" in college? You are hereby dismissed from being considered rational. Please consult a psychologist for your deep seated hate issues. Incidentally I watch almost no college ball my and others assessment of his shooting ability is based on how he shoots the ball now.

[Lord Ashram]

I hate when you JJ defenders never come up with hard evidence to support anything you say..

He has no man to man defense.
Can't help with a teammates man because he can't get back to his own (his BIGGEST problem, IMO)
Bad dribbler
Can't create his own shot
Bad court vision
Can't rebound
No back to the basket game (obviously not Dwight style, but like a lot of SG's in the league)
He may not be a slow runner but basketball is a game of quickness...and JJ has none.
Amazingly unathletic
Weak
Short

Wow. WOW. You are SO, so stupid and so obviously biased.

You want hard evidence? Way more evidence than you have ever provided for anything?

Here.

http://www.newsobserver.com/736/story/411946.html

Of course, I am sure you will argue that the leading scorer in ACC history is unathletic and weak and short and can't create his own shot and has bad court vision and can't dribble, and you will argue it with SUCH convincing evidence that we will all bow before you and your basketball knowledge. You know... because you are smart and understand basketball.

Heh. Moron. Go back to hick school. A hick school which, btw, JJ beat six times and only lost to five times. Whoops! So much for not doing anything to "your" school!

[SHS21]

Its pretty obvious that you are a UNC fan LBPTarheel, concidently the rival of Duke, where JJ Redick played.

You are not the one to argue about JJ since you have a biased opinion of his skills because you hated him for 4 years. JJ my never be a great defender but he is the hardest worker on the court, and besides Turk he is the only one who can consistenly hit a jump shot.

I do agree though JJ should be traded but not for the Magic's sake, for his own because of the way he's been treated.

[Togo]

lol. Just trade him to the Suns. We will see what happen then. (like 15ppg off the bench.)

[oakfanintheeast]

[quote="Lord Ashram"][/quote]

do you know how many players in the AAC left early? hundreds and hundreds. who cares if he was the leading scorer? it's fake. also, i agree with almost everything tarheels has said about redicks game.