And then there were 9

Post #41 » by **KJ7** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:32 am

Less personal insults more on-topic discussion guys.

Just for the record, drag Diaw out of the starting line-up. I said in the first game he started that he should still be coming off the bench and I stand by it. Of course not having Nash in the last game hurts Diaw the most cos it almost seems he gets ignored on when teams switch unless Nash is on the court.

Banks isn't doing himself any favours after earning more mins. He's quickly earning himself a re-visit to the doghouse. Hopefully he can find some consistency.

Frank Lee · Post #42 » by **Frank Lee** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:46 am

I will now be handing out an additional award, due to the above ramblings...I give that lengthy SDU post....

Two horrible deals that are bringing this team down are Banks and Doris...we have 13 mill+ wrapped up in two players who do not contribute....and both of these guys, when they were signed, had immediate minutes to take....and now we can't count on either one.

We have a few more days to make some improvements....

-SDU- · Post #43 » by **-SDU-** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:19 pm

^ um, yeah, now you want to act like I signed them?

well done, you can form an opinion 2 years after a decision was made, someone had to make that decision, dantoni did, and i can understand why.

it didnt work out, bad luck - doesnt mean that it wasnt the right thing to try at the time

you win some (nash barbs ) you lose some (boris, marcus)

@ KJ7 i agree, in a game with a frontcourt like the jazz especially i thought skinner should have started

JustMoe · Post #44 » by **JustMoe** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:30 pm

I don't even want to get into this argument, since I don't feel the need to. But seriously, Frank, regarding Boris: wouldn't you have tried to keep him after the season he had? I mean, what if D'Antoni would have decided that the 9 millions he earns are too much and would have let him go, and then he would have signed with another team and would have kept up his play? I know, a lot of hypotheses, but looking back, this was the decision Mike had to make. And we all know that if Diaw would have been allowed to sign somewhere else and would have kept up his strong play, everybody would be bashing D'Antoni for NOT resigning him right now.
He had a decision to make back then, and looking back, I guess most GMs in the league would have done the same thing as he did.

Banks, on the other hand, was a more risky move, since he didn't exactly have a great reputation regarding his time in Boston and Minnesota. But he definitely had the skills to fit in well, especially due to his defensive abilities. I can't remember whether there were any other PGs available back then that would have made more sense, but it's definitely a fact that we needed a backup PG back then (as we do right now), and one who's a good defender seemed to be the right choice.
I'd agree, though, that Banks' contract is too long, especially since it's not like he's just earning Hill/Skinner-like money. So there's definitely some good reasons for critizising that signing, even though I'd still say that going for a PG was the right move, and, as SDU has pointed out, many people on this board liked the move back then, including myself. I just, as already mentioned, wish we would have signed him for only 2 or 3 years in order to get rid of him easily if he doesn't fit in with the team.

Never Fear 33 Is Here · Post #45 » by **Never Fear 33 Is Here** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:34 pm

Ummmmmmmm JM usually if you don't want to get into an argument then you don't back one persons viewpoint as you just did. :lol:

Just a tip. :wink:

JustMoe · Post #46 » by **JustMoe** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:46 pm

Never Fear 33 Is Here wrote:Ummmmmmmm JM usually if you don't want to get into an argument then you don't back one persons viewpoint as you just did.

Just a tip.

Did I? SDU's opinion is a little too optimistic for my taste, while Frank's is too pessimistic. I can see why he critizises those moves, but i also think that there are some things you just can't neglect when bashing them. Therefor I pointed out that even though those two have some disputes going on recently there are still some points each of them came up with that should receive attention.

Of course, from today's point of view I hate those two moves and I wish we would have never made them, with the resigning of Boris' being the worse one. I'd love to slap that pantywaist right in the face each time I see him play

And I've also got to admit that sometimes it's hard to read SDU's comments about everything being fine after just having watched the team embarrassing itself again against some team they should have been able to beat easily. But still those signings made sense back then, not to mention we're actually quite successful this season so far, and what bothers me the most is we always kept making fun of fans from other teams bragging about their squad (like the Magic fans for example), just to see that as soon as we don't play well we're not a bit better than them.
I'd say we suck regarding the high standarts we have due to having a strong team with some true stars in this league, but the day Nash retires (and maybe Marion will be long gone by then already) hell will break loose on this board

Frank Lee · Post #47 » by **Frank Lee** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:46 am

Come on JMoe, those signings did not make sense.......one good season for Diaw and he is rewarded 9 mill per for 5 ?? Sure, MD and RSarver had to ink him...but he was contractually obligated to play one more with us. I sincerely doubt, that even with continued success, that any team would have upped the ante more than what we gave the GD pastry forward. Especially when he rolled into camp W/30lbs of extra souffle'.

look around the league...this cap and tax is changing the pay structure. Money is tighter and the terms are shorter....look what Gooden signed for...as well as Varejoa (and he sat idle for 2-3 months). And those guys were sought after talent. (Both inked up for 3 yr deals starting at <6Mil.)

As far as Banks goes...We had inexperience ruling the roost between GM and owner.

Signing Banks gave us a glimpse of the Spin to come.....the awe-jeez-shucks-sunshining-shoulder-shrugging-D'Ant changed his PG tune so many times that offseason....it was a mGM musical. 'We tried to catch Sefaloosha, but no one would give us a shot'...'There's a Salmons on the Hook, but can't get him in the boat' ...'Barbo is our BoyBoy' ... and the finale .... 'Marcus was the mark us wanted all along' ......
some of his more popular tunes spread out valley wide....and still hummed today.

Jeff McGinnis was available for 1 mill per... Please Don't get me started on those Bungling Boobs in the Brass. look back...the first thing they did that yr was to sign Pike ? Check that...the first thing they did was selling a draft pick (Rodriguez)

You pick any side of this fence to stand on...You might label me as the voice of pessimism....but this isn't solo performance, there is a choir practicing in the wings... To ignore the mistakes this front office has made...as well as the inaction we are sure to witness up to the trade deadline should rankle anyone. (with the exception of the perpetually half-full-D'Antoni- disciple SDU). To assume this sub-championship-style of play will work itself out...is purely an assumption based on the songs of D'Ant.

History is repeating itself. and the results will likely be the same.

BurningHeart · Post #48 » by **BurningHeart** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:50 am

Must be tough rooting for a loser like the Suns, eh? Maybe you'd be happier if you followed another team with "better management".

Never Fear 33 Is Here · Post #49 » by **Never Fear 33 Is Here** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:51 am

Frank The Tank wrote:History is repeating itself. and the results will likely be the same.

I see.

so it seems by your comment there, that even you don't believe your own psycho babble. :nonono:

Or is it that you are still in the process of the more rubbish you spit that other people and even yourself may start to believe it? :roll:

Seriously, how do you go about living your life?

All these mistakes, blah blah blah. Did you ever stop to smell the roses and realize that every team in the league has these mistakes? Did you also stop to smell the proverbial and also realize that we also have some, oh I don't know, some not so much mistakes? (If I have to explain this to you then it really isn't worth it. :crazy:

)

I hate agreeing with SDU to this extent.

Oh no, the sky is falling............ahhhhhhhhhhhh

JustMoe · Post #50 » by **JustMoe** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:43 pm

Regarding Boris' resigning: I doubt D'Antoni came up with 9 millions out of nothing and just threw them at him because he thought he'd deserve it. Diaw won the Most Improved Player Award back then, he had a HUGE season due to STAT being injured, and he was still extremely young, so I'd say he clearly had a lot more value than a guy like Drew Gooden, who's a very useful player but nothing special, not to mention Mr. Mediocrity Anderson Varejao. If you'd have a big man in his early 20's on your squad who just had his breakout season, wouldn't you have tried to sign him long-term? I mean, if they would have only given him a 2 year contract and he'd have continued to improve, what amount of money would we be paying him right now?!
Gooden earns about 6,5 millions this season, 7,1 next year, and back then Diaw looked clearly better, so I don't think the 9 millions he ears looked like they were far off from his value in the NBA back then. I agree upon his contract looking awful from a current point of view, he's among the worst in the league right now without any doubt, but back then he definitely didn't look that bad.

And speaking about Banks - as I said before, he definitely shouldn't have been signed to such a long contract, but Jeff McInnis?! You would have prefered going for a guy who was called a lockerroom cancer back then and whom nobody wanted to have on his team before he got traded to Charlotte? He was pretty bad during his time in New Jersey, wasn't he? Back then I'm pretty sure only very few people would have prefered an older, harder to handle guy like McInnis over a solid young defender like Banks.

Oh, and I'm still not going to "pick any side of the fence" since I think both sides have good arguments, as well as pretty bad ones. I agree with you upon our team looking bad this season and that there's close to no chance we'll get over the second round in the playoffs this year (as I already stated in the recent game thread), and that's something I've been saying all season long already since there are some obvious weaknesses on our squad that nobody seems to try changing anything about.
You mentioned Rodriguez, and I absolutely agree here, as well - I would have prefered giving the young guy from Spain a chance instead of signing Banks. This way we would have saved some money, and it's not like Banks was our once in a lifetime-chance to get a guy who will lead us to a championship.
There are many moves our management made during the past few seasons I hate, especially the ones where we sell picks or throw 'em away in order to get rid of useful veterans. But this is due to Sarver trying to save money, not due to D'Antoni being incompetent. I'm still a Suns fan and, as I mentioned before, the moves you were critizising in here actually did make some sense back then, especially the resigning of Boris. Looking at the situation now, I guess we're going nowhere, and this team definitely needs some changes. I don't expect those to happen before the summer, but this doesn't mean I'm not going to support the team anymore or only post in threads in order to bash any single thing they do.
I can really see why SDU and you drive each other crazy with your posts, and I can also understand that after supporting this team for what? 3 decades at least, you're getting frustrated when seeing them screw it up again. But does this mean everybody has to? I don't think so, since we still have a team that achieves a positive record each season and usually makes it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, which is pretty awesome compared to the crap some other team's fans have to go through.
This season may be special since after the ridiculous Kurt Thomas trade and the way we are playing so far everybody has to realize that we most likely aren't going to win anything despite expecting to do so before the season, but coming up with the same negative stuff after each bad game doesn't change anything about the situation either.

Frank Lee · Post #51 » by **Frank Lee** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:04 pm

Never Fear 33 Is Here wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

.....still in the process of the more rubbish you spit that other people and even yourself may start to believe it?

Seriously, how do you go about living your life?

All these mistakes, blah blah blah. Did you ever stop to smell the roses and realize that every team in the league has these mistakes? Did you also stop to smell the proverbial and also realize that we also have some, oh I don't know, some not so much mistakes? (If I have to explain this to you then it really isn't worth it. )

I hate agreeing with SDU to this extent.

Oh no, the sky is falling............ahhhhhhhhhhhh

so I spit rubbish eh? ....

one man's trash...another's treasure.

I agree with you upon our team looking bad this season and that there's close to no chance we'll get over the second round in the playoffs this year (as I already stated in the recent game thread), and that's something I've been saying all season long already since there are some obvious weaknesses on our squad that nobody seems to try changing anything about.

JMoe... atleast you have the nutz to admit what you think will happen, in spite of what you want/hope. And you are right in some respects about Doris...at the time, he was overpaid by about the same $$ that Barbo was under paid. But, I believe he was a restricted FA...and we could have matched any offer. Either way, it is his performance that has made that such an awful deal.

McInnis had a bad rap, and was a very low risk acquisition. Besides, having those other great locker-roomers like Pike and Marks...I am sure he would have gotten along famously....atleast he would have had a chance to play.

Excuse me now....I must go sniff some blooms...it has been said it will do wonders for your season.

Post #52 » by **KJ7** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:44 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Come on JMoe, those signings did not make sense.......one good season for Diaw and he is rewarded 9 mill per for 5 ?? Sure, MD and RSarver had to ink him...but he was contractually obligated to play one more with us. I sincerely doubt, that even with continued success, that any team would have upped the ante more than what we gave the GD pastry forward. Especially when he rolled into camp W/30lbs of extra souffle'.

look around the league...this cap and tax is changing the pay structure. Money is tighter and the terms are shorter....look what Gooden signed for...as well as Varejoa (and he sat idle for 2-3 months). And those guys were sought after talent. (Both inked up for 3 yr deals starting at <6Mil.)

Where were you during the Joe Johnson debacle? Or do you think Suns mgmt handled that well?

How is the Diaw situation different? There was a chance that he couldve gotten better, asked for more and left. Just because that didn't happen you pounce on it.

What gets me is at the time, you didn't really come out saying that it was a bad/good move IIRC (likewise when we signed Banks) but now that it hasn't turned out very well you're willing to throw stones. Geez, Mr Hindsight in da house. You can look at *any* team and say they gave a bad deal in the last couple of years.

e.g. Spurs - J.Butler & Rasho (didn't stop them from winning)

I just find it frustrating when ppl do this much like the "we couldve had Arenas/Boozer" crowd. If you can pick it at the time then props to you but it's a calculated gamble just like everything else. You obviously didn't pick it at the time yet here you are throwing stones.

ppl here can testify that I was all over Salmons from the Jan *before* the offseason (and remember he was our first priority but turned us down) but I'm not on here trumpeting about how mgmt got it wrong. You on the other hand feel the need to. I don't understand that.

For every J.Butler/Rasho/Banks/Diaw you are gonna get a Ginobili/Nash/LB etc. Hopefully you get more of the latter then the former but it's always a calculated gamble and no-one has cracked the system last time I checked.

-SDU- · Post #53 » by **-SDU-** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:20 pm

^ ive been waiting for that point to come up

fact is, the suns were smarting from the JJ situation where they could have signed him earlier, but let him play out his contract year and either had to pay max or lose him

so when it reared its head with boris again, they figured best to get it done now than have a team offer him 60 mil if he had another great season like the MIP one (which seemed likely)

of course hindsight is clear, but the simple fact is with the boris and banks signings, that it was easy to see why the decision was made at the time

im not about to criticise management because it didnt work out, as long as at the time, it was a justifiable move. which in this case it was

its not like we gave jerome james 40 mil

Frank Lee · Post #54 » by **Frank Lee** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:24 pm

Jeezus....and yet another musketeer comes forth....

Where were you during the Joe Johnson debacle? Or do you think Suns mgmt handled that well?

Nope...but in the end, JJ wanted to go...at least we received something for him.

How is the Diaw situation different? There was a chance that he could ve gotten better, asked for more and left. Just because that didn't happen you pounce on it.

A chance he would improved upon his career yr and someone offered him 50 Mill??? do you really believe that?

What gets me is at the time, you didn't really come out saying that it was a bad/good move IIRC (likewise when we signed Banks) but now that it hasn't turned out very well you're willing to throw stones. Geez, Mr Hindsight in da house. You can look at *any* team and say they gave a bad deal in the last couple of years. e.g. Spurs - J.Butler & Rasho (didn't stop them from winning)

I did not come to this site until 11/07/06...and believe it or not , there are other places of expression. If any old posters from azcentral are around...I would be able to verify my consistent opinions....but alas...it would be heresay... and BTW, I am not F-n Banterstien. The Spurs are a championship team...their deals were supplementary in nature...we , on the other hand , were needing a deal to bring us up to their level....didn't happen did it.

I just find it frustrating when ppl do this much like the "we couldve had Arenas/Boozer" crowd. If you can pick it at the time then props to you but it's a calculated gamble just like everything else. You obviously didn't pick it at the time yet here you are throwing stones.

and yet another assumption on your part. This is becoming a pattern with you SUNShiners. Hey, maybe we can sticky a special 'Stone Throwing' thread so you and yer buds can remain insulated from we undesirables. (jeez,,,I hope there is more than one of me)

ppl here can testify that I was all over Salmons from the Jan *before* the offseason (and remember he was our first priority but turned us down) but I'm not on here trumpeting about how mgmt got it wrong. You on the other hand feel the need to. I don't understand that.

That whole process of trying to sign a PG was another looselipping fiasco, as one by one all of the available PGs were signed... Jackson, Salmons, Claxton, (but we did get Pike) Bottom line is we inked up a player who did not fit the criteria that mngmt spelled out in the beginning...and then after mngmt said they were content with LB....they then found Marcus in his bedroom on a 3 day boohoo binge, inked him to a 5 yr F-n deal when he was obviously not in demand nor in a position of leverage. It was a pizz poor move and you know it. I said so at the time...but with hopeful reserves of 'lets wait and see'. Well we have waited, and apparently MikeyD has seen enough. Meanwhile, we let TThomas walk over less than 2 mill...yet we can sign Banks...You can issue free passes all you want...but these little moves are often what bring championships to town. How good would this team look if we had kept TT?

Your little cushy yesman world has been off kilter since I have been here. You and your Cronies try to strongarm any dissenting opinions and boister claims of board unity on these deals....and seem to believe that if it wasn't said here, then it could not be true. I am getting tired of that one. My views are common amongst many of these boards....there are some , like me, who are fed up with this mickeymousing management. Others have identified needs for this team...Do we need a better back up PG ? Do we need a Center or PF ? Well, many think so...and we have the capabilities to do that with the Trade Exceptions...the question is, does this Owner/group want a ring or cozy bottom line. And right now, I blame our inept front office behavior over the past 3 yrs as the biggest factor to why we are in this mess. (Yeah, I call it a mess when you look at our Defense and pathetic Rebounding and lack of future talent cultivation) Oh, I'll cheer for my boys, and likely die a slow death again...but if nothing changes, I am going to call for some major head shaking come June. We will see...

Now let me get back to my roses.

-SDU- · Post #55 » by **-SDU-** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:58 pm

Nope...but in the end, JJ wanted to go...at least we received something for him.

JJ only wanted to go because he felt disrespected that we didnt offer him the contract he wanted the year before

and we "at least received something" only by the pure genuis of management convincing atlanta that we would match

by your logic we didnt offer diaw a deal, then he had another great year (which seemed likely at the time) then signs someone elses offer sheet of 50mil the next year and says to us "dont match, im not happy here because you didnt respect me last offseason" then he is gone. front office was scared of that happening, AGAIN, so they reacted and signed him for too much. I can understand why they thought the contract was reasonable tho. If diaw plays like yesterday more often he will start earning it too

Bottom line is we inked up a player who did not fit the criteria that mngmt spelled out in the beginning...and then after mngmt said they were content with LB....they then found Marcus in his bedroom on a 3 day boohoo binge, inked him to a 5 yr F-n deal when he was obviously not in demand nor in a position of leverage.

firstly, he was very much in demand and was negotiating with the rockets and the cavs at the time he signed with us and MANY unbiased sportswriters etc thought banks would get at least the FULL MLE and that we signed him to a reasonable contract

secondly a tough defensive minded "under your skin" type player who is considered to be one of the fastest players in the league certainly would have fitted our "criteria"

frank, you act like this board is against you, thats not a fact, everyone can have their opinions, thats what its here for, i dont want to come here and just have everyone agree with each other, but the fact is you are overly negative, thats your choice, but i wonder why you even support this team, and honestly, you come out with crap like "dantoni the genius signed boris for this and banks for that" etc when its clear to see why that decision was made at the time

im not going to be critical of someone for making a decision that was justifiable. Was it a dumb move looking back? maybe, maybe not, but either way, im not going to get on his case and act like hes a loser just because something didnt work out.

walkingart · Post #56 » by **walkingart** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:07 am

I am not going to waste my time reading all of the previous posts about Boris signing, Banks signing and the way they tried to resign JJ. But I read enough to throw my two cents in.

1. You need to be consistent! Currently, the Suns aren't giving the Matrix an extension, ala JJ. But with Diaw, they were scared they would have to shell out too much. Bottom line is, if you gamble, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But if you start betting big, cause you are already down the way the Suns were with JJ, you usually end up losing more. If you keep playing your hand the same, things should balance out.

2. With the Banks signing, the Suns were scared. They lost out on Salmons, the player they really wanted, and they signed a player that was not what they needed. Yes, he is good defender, but he is too small. Now, he has sat on the bench for too long, and has no value around the league. He is also known for having a poor work ethic, last man on the court, first one off.

That being said, there are other deals that have really paid off.

1. Hill
2. Skinner
3. Barbosa
4. Bell
5. Nash

And they have payed there players and locked them up.

1. Stat
2. Matrix

Look around the league, other teams have made mistakes too, its bound to happen.

Maybe we should all stop pissing in the kool aid, there's nothing else to drink!

Frank Lee · Post #57 » by **Frank Lee** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:09 am

JJ only wanted to go because he felt disrespected that we didnt offer him the contract he wanted the year before

JJ had more reasons than what you may think or remember. No one is bitchin about JJ...he was leaving. period. Feather management's cap with something else, for it sure would be different if he was here rather than Doris.

secondly a tough defensive minded "under your skin" type player who is considered to be one of the fastest players in the league certainly would have fitted our "criteria"

Thats baloney right there....the Brass Boys wanted a Big PG/SG who could play along side of Barbo and his defensive shortcomings...thus Salmons...thus Sefaloosha.... and it seems to me, ol Marcus was getting little to no attention. He was holed up and pouting fer christsakes. This was a panic move plain and simple. Poorly researched and poorly negotiated.

Y'all can forgive and forget so quickly...but it these fine tuning moves are where our front office has failed us. We stock our cupboards with valueless vets, pawn off any hope of youth development, max out our payroll, and let valuable pieces get away (TThomas, Hunter, KT, JJ (oops) )...and then become hamstrung with a roster that is one or two position players shy of what is needed, with limited ways or means to acquire them...

Just think of how lucky we were that Grant Hill decided to play here....it was not some magical GM move. Skinner as well. Both these boys are ring seeking vets...with some gas in the tank...and they chose Phnx....if we had to pay market value/worth...they'd be elsewhere.

I do not know which is worse...overly negative or overly positive...
I do know that one is based on fact, the other on hope.

You won't catch me whistling a happy tune because we have a good record. I continue to find the slacker D we play to be very disturbing. Sure, we can beat anyone anytime...but only if we are raining the threeball...and they aren't. This placating plea for chemistry development has run its course with me as I view it as just more streetbeats from SpinMasta MikeyD. If a move is not made for interior help...we will know just where RSarver and SKerr place their priorities...we are so close right now.

Yall keep your glasses on...I prefer to look at this team in the real light. Call it negative all you want...the opposition does not and will not ignore these shortcomings and weaknesses....and yall SUNShiners will be forced to go shadeless come playoff time.

shrink · Post #58 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:38 pm

I'm amazed by the positive reaction to Banks now. Yeah, he's super-athletic, but you guys watch Nash all the time, so I would think you'd realize brains are more important to be a good point guard. This time last year, didn't Banks have more turnovers than assists? If he's starting to turn it around for you, congrats. There's no denying that athleticism.

Post #59 » by **KJ7** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:03 pm

My bad Frank. You're exactly right about when you arrived and when we signed Banks. It's just that I don't see you having all that much of an opinion when we sign players.

I didn't see you saying much when we signed Hill and Skinner at the time and all I really recall you saying during the draft thread (and correct me if I'm wrong again) the players you were only really for/against was Noah (against) and Fazekas (for).

For someone who is willing to rip mgmt when they make a bad move and for something that is completely obvious you sure don't see it.

As to your question about whether I really thought Diaw would improve, he WAS the MIP just the prev year. You really think at the time it was that ridiculous that Diaw would actually improve more? He was still very young as well just to add to the fact he could potentially get better. And Yes, that's why we gave him so much. Due to potential. Just like that's why JoeJ got so much. He only scored about 16ppg when he got a max/near max contract remember.

JJ had more reasons than what you may think or remember. No one is bitchin about JJ...he was leaving. period. Feather management's cap with something else, for it sure would be different if he was here rather than Doris.

The thing is you just fail to see the "once bitten, twice shy" situation this created. Since you weren't around I'll inform you that the board went ballistic around that time shouting at how bad our mgmt was and how we shouldve locked him up early and not waited til the end of the season. (Notice how it's always mgmt's fault). People were jumping up and down saying "lock them up!!!". Mgmt does, and now ppl come out saying "management sucks!".

Just step back and take a look for a second. I honestly believe regardless of how many good things mgmt does it will always get ripped for the bad decisions until we win a championship.

Since you weren't here at the time let me also tell you that almost nobody believed that we would still have Marion at this stage (hence the annual Marion trade threads). Everyone told us that we would be trading Marion for junk almost on an annual basis.

But hey, I don't want to be a henchman :roll:

By no means do I feel like mgmt has made all the right moves. The Kurt trade *still* disgusts me and I think in future we will really find out just how bad that was. But at least I can understand their line of thinking and for the most part I agree with it. We needed defense. We've added Bell, Kurt, Skinner, Hill, Banks in the last 2/3 seasons. All are still here with the exception of Kurt. I dunno, maybe my logic is off but it just seems that even when mgmt does what we think is right at the time somehow they still get ripped for it.

I don't blame mgmt for Diaw's contract. I blame Diaw (until he improves).

walkingart · Post #60 » by **walkingart** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:47 pm

Props to KJ, I completely agree with you.

The once bitten twice shy analogy is where I think the Suns screwed up. Your team should have a philosophy, and they should stick to it. If your stance as a team is too NOT extend players until there contracts are up(unless you are a bonafied All Star; ie Stat and Marion), then stand by it. While we were all excited at the time of Diaw's signing, I think most including the Suns brass thought his contract was on the high side. If the Suns would have stood by their philosophy, and Diaw had underperformed as he did, we would not be crippled by his contract. If he had continued to be motivated and kept improving, we would have had a much better chance to be the reigning NBA champions and who would care if he crippled us with a contract after we had a ring?

All that aside, despite the KT contract dumping (if we had kept him till the trade deadline, we might have been able to get something for him), I think Kerr has done a really good job. We finally used some draft picks, even if they're not playing currently. I would rather have potential sitting on the bench, then someone else's leftovers waiting to be tossed out. We brought in two veterans on minimum contracts who have contributed greatly and kept our core players together.

Compare that to the other contenders in the league. The Spurs gave Scola to Houston. Signed nobody. The Mavs did nothing as well, even though they were dropped in the first round. The Warriors traded away a starter for a rookie who has yet to contribute (in the long run, this deal should be a good one, but in the now it is horrible). The Lakers brought in Fisher and nothing else. The Nuggets didn't do anything to talk about either. The Hornets and Blazers made no moves that you would have thought would make them better this season, despite having great coaches and character players that for the most part, were brought in through the draft.

With that being said, we should all stop our bitching and start counting our blessings!