When Andrea gets 30+ mins...

[hoop_head]

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So you are willing to lose a game or more even if his plays cost the team a win. And if other players can contribute more, wouldn't it be fair for them to sit while watching Andrea is struggling?

I am willing to take the loss because I'm thinking long-term, and we need to invest time in Andrea's development now. This season is largely about evaluating strengths and weaknesses of the Raptors as a whole, because this team isn't the finished product that Colangelo will eventually build. Bargnani is Colangelo's chosen C of the future, so doesn't it make sense to play him as much as possible this year, to improve his game? How is Colangelo supposed to make an informed decision on Bargnani's development if Bargnani isn't given the opportunity to play significant minutes?

This is a necessary step forward. Bargnani needs playing time, as much as he can get. It could also be argued that if Bargnani isn't going to be able to play the C-spot adequately, the more he plays now, the sooner Colangelo will identify the problem and do something about it. Sporadic play will only prolong the evaluation period in this scenario.

[reptar15]

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maybe cuz he plays d, rebounds and blocks shots?
he only shoots cuz the other team leaves him open all the time.

are you kidding me? moon takes a lot of bad shots

he keeps holding the ball and then jacks it up with the defender in his face.

[Guy Smiley]

Let's take this one step further. If we look at Barg's 40+ minute games he is a scoring machine.

[JN]

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moon takes every freaking shot that comes to him
but mitchell loves the guy

Moon contributes a lot more to the team then poor shooting. All AB contributes is poor shooting,

[JN]

Let's take this one step further. If we look at Barg's 40+ minute games he is a scoring machine.

1. if we look at Chris Bosh FG% in the games he scores over 30 points a game, it is much much higher.

2. When Chris Bosh scores 30 points, he also on average takes more shots in those games.

So therefore if we let Chris Bosh take as many shots as possible, his FG% will go way up.

[Komodo]

Thing is, he gets 30 minutes when he plays well.

When he doesn't, he tends to get yanked off the court.

I'm of the opinion that he should be allowed to make mistakes without worrying about being subbed off, but then again, if you make this exception for him, then you have to make the same exception for any other player who is playing below his level.

No, you don't.

We've invested a great deal into bargs, and with that comes a little leeway for him to develop; I certainly feel that he is entitled to that, moreso than role-player-at-best such as Moon and Hump.

[Komodo]

As for foul trouble, did you see bargs' first foul? It was on Pryzbilla at the 3-point line, damnit!

[CreaM]

You realize that the doubters are the same people who bitched about Jose last season? Or bitched about Bosh early on when he "wasn't leader material". I'm sick of all this f*cking whining from so-called fans who can't see the game for what it is. Dirk struggled with fouls early on too but he came around. Andrea needs confidence and that's something the coach ain't giving him...

At the beginning of the season Moon had a couple of rough games off the bench and the coach put him in the starting lineup with extended minutes (right around the same time he yanked Andrea). He put more confidence in an undrafted player out of the CBA than a developing young guy that went first overall in the 2006 draft (and is suppose to be the future of the team). Maybe if Andrea was black he'd get more playing time but either way it's ridiculous cause he was a big part of last year's success and it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) how quickly most of you "fans" have forgotten. You rather get rid of him now after half a season for next to nothing then give him a chance to get back on track?!

Personally I think we need a new coach. I trust BC over Sam anyday cause I saw first hand how great a coach Sam was before BC got here (<-- sarcasm if you can't tell). BC gave Sam the players, Sam used them to get his new contract and now he's pretty much slapping the GM in the face by benching guys like Kapono and Bargs. Last game Bargs should have come back in the 2nd quarter but we didn't see him till the start of the second half... I want Sam to bench Bosh or Moon for 18 minutes after picking up two quick fouls so we can see how hot those guys are coming off the break.

LOL.
Smitch is teh racist.
You are f***ing pathetic. The excuses keep mounting. Smitch all of a sudden hates Andrea because he is white!!!. Thats why he plays Calderon, Nesto (last year) , Garbo (last year), Delfino, Kapono, and all the other white players that have gone through him. You are a douche bag for bringing racism to the conversation to cover your frustration.

Face it, Bargnani is a limited 3 point shooting stiff. The sooner you get over it the better.

[tecumseh18]

Maybe if Andrea was black he'd get more playing time ...

Last game Bargs should have come back in the 2nd quarter but we didn't see him till the start of the second half... I want Sam to bench Bosh or Moon for 18 minutes after picking up two quick fouls so we can see how hot those guys are coming off the break.

Um, last week against Philly, Sam did exactly that to Bosh. Bosh picked up two quick fouls, and didn't come back until the second half. At which point CB4 commenced to pulverize the Philly defenders, ending up with another 20-10 (or thereabouts) game in limited minutes.

What's your next point?

[Mr. Perfect]

You realize that the doubters are the same people who bitched about Jose last season? Or bitched about Bosh early on when he "wasn't leader material". I'm sick of all this f*cking whining from so-called fans who can't see the game for what it is. Dirk struggled with fouls early on too but he came around. Andrea needs confidence and that's something the coach ain't giving him...

At the beginning of the season Moon had a couple of rough games off the bench and the coach put him in the starting lineup with extended minutes (right around the same time he yanked Andrea). He put more confidence in an undrafted player out of the CBA than a developing young guy that went first overall in the 2006 draft (and is suppose to be the future of the team). Maybe if Andrea was black he'd get more playing time but either way it's ridiculous cause he was a big part of last year's success and it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) how quickly most of you "fans" have forgotten. You rather get rid of him now after half a season for next to nothing then give him a chance to get back on track?!

Personally I think we need a new coach. I trust BC over Sam anyday cause I saw first hand how great a coach Sam was before BC got here (<-- sarcasm if you can't tell). BC gave Sam the players, Sam used them to get his new contract and now he's pretty much slapping the GM in the face by benching guys like Kapono and Bargs. Last game Bargs should have come back in the 2nd quarter but we didn't see him till the start of the second half... I want Sam to bench Bosh or Moon for 18 minutes after picking up two quick fouls so we can see how hot those guys are coming off the break.

No more Dirk comparisons. Dirk at Andrea's age was putting up 22/9 and was an All-Star.

Oh, and if you're going to try and play the racism card, lmao @ you. You're not doing a good job at defending Andrea's case.

[gusguy]

Thing is, he gets 30 minutes when he plays well.

When he doesn't, he tends to get yanked off the court.

I'm of the opinion that he should be allowed to make mistakes without worrying about being subbed off, but then again, if you make this exception for him, then you have to make the same exception for any other player who is playing below his level.

Moon anyone. The only thing missing is Mitchell inserting the pacifier into his mouth.

[supersub15]

Well, on current form, he'd average 14.6 ppg and 5.1 rpg per 36 minutes.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bargnan01.html

You are taking his highs and ignoring his lows.

[Mr. Perfect]

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Moon anyone. The only thing missing is Mitchell inserting the pacifier into his mouth.

Moon, despite his shooting woes brings a lot more to the table than Andrea. Who, at this point only misses shots and contributes not much else.

Ok, so let's say you take out Moon at the end of the game there and put in Andrea, you think Andrea would step up and block those shots from Brandon Roy or any of the Blazers guards penetrating the lane with Bosh tied up?

[tecumseh18]

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Moon anyone. The only thing missing is Mitchell inserting the pacifier into his mouth.

Moon rebounds. Moon blocks shots. Apart from Bosh, he's the only guy on the team who consistently does those things. Can you imagine how bad we would be without him?

Coddle away, Smitch!

[magani]

Some of you are saying that of course Bargs has those inflated numbers when he plays 30 minutes. He must be playing well to warrant that. My issue is that he is fully capable of producing those numbers when given more opportunities. So Bargs has to show in the first 5-10 minutes that he deserves extended playing time? What kind of way is that to develop such an important piece of this team's future? This is why I think BC gets frustrated with the situation. Bargs is integral to this team taking the next step - whether it's forwards or backwards. Let him work out his warts on the court. We're not going anywhere this year anyway. Why win an extra 3 games at this expense? Bargs shows and has shown these flasshes. He needs PT pure and simple. If with the PT he doesn't play well, then it's on BC to remedy and change course. We can't go in to year 3 not knowing what to expect from Bargs.

[Pchu]

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No, you don't.

We've invested a great deal into bargs, and with that comes a little leeway for him to develop; I certainly feel that he is entitled to that, moreso than role-player-at-best such as Moon and Hump.

Your role player at best are out playing Bargnani right now.

And, Hump is only a few months older than Bargnani, so isn't he part of the future too?

[tecumseh18]

Maybe if Andrea was Matt Bonner he'd get more playing time

Fixed.

[JN]

22 minutes a game is not chicken **** time. Simple as that. One should be able to fully and capably develop based on 22 minutes a game.

I love how you are all acting as if 22 minutes a game is insignificant playing time for a second year player.

[Antoine_Wright21]

How does this thread become a thread into hating Moon?

All you BUSTnani backers are fools if you can't see that he's not gonna be anything special anytime soon. He's shown to himself to be a complete idiot, who does nothing to improve his game.

And the reason why Moon gets to stay in the game sometimes is look what he brings on the defensive side of the ball. He messed up big time last night fouling Outlaw. But instead of crying like a baby, he played even harder and making 2 CLUTCH blocks in OT and even knocking down a j. If that were POONani... not only would he have fouled the shooter, he would have commenced to not rebounding + taking some idiotic shot the next time he touched the ball.