Butler or Arenas?

[hands11]

-= original quote snipped =-


Neither of those questions are relevant to this thread. The question asked is which player would you keep? No answer is necessary because the Bullets are keeping both.

I will never understand why people waste their time posting stuff like this. If you don't like a thread, read another. The thread does make sense and is a fine question. Management does have to consider these types of questions. That's why this is realGM.

But why come into a thread to say you don't like it and not participate?

[ZonkertheBrainless]

Because it's a "when did you stop beating your wife?" question. The question is designed to cause you to insult one of the two best players on the team. Did you really have to phrase it as "which of these two would you rather kick off your team?"

[Spence]

Because it's a "when did you stop beating your wife?" question. The question is designed to cause you to insult one of the two best players on the team. Did you really have to phrase it as "which of these two would you rather kick off your team?"

Precisely. It's a silly question with no relevance to the real world. It's possible to compare and contrast the two players, but this question doesn't do that. This question just demands that you pick one player to dump. I don't want to dump either one, Ernie Grunfeld doesn't want to dump either one, and he doesn't have to dump either one. So what's the point?

If your delicate constitution is wounded by having to witness a silly question being called a silly question, perhaps you should be doing something else with your free time.

[Kanyewest]

The Wizards only would consider Butler more valuable because of the lack depth at the small forward department, considering Jamison gets the majority of his minutes at power forward. Antonio Daniels can fill in nicely with Arenas out. Still, as well as Butler is playing now, Arenas is a much more valuable player overall when healthy.

[RickRoll_inDC]

The beautiful thing is...

We have both, and hopefully will have for years to come.

[DC old guy]

The question isn't really which player is better, or even which is more valuable to the team, it is what kind of a team do you want. Right now, we have a traditional team, with a point guard distributing the ball to more prolific scorers, and playing good defense on the opposing point guard. With Gilbert, we have a team where the point guard is a versatile scorer and the center of attention and the other players are in a supporting role.

Personally, I think the traditional team concept is likely to be more successful in this league. I hope that Gilbert is learning from his months on the bench how important it is to have a balanced attack, and that when he comes back, he distributes the ball more and takes only sure shots. If not, I would avoid paying him the $15 million or so that he will expect next year, and spend the money on a pure point guard and a strong power forward. I think we would do very well as a team.

[JonoMike13]

I'd gladly trade both to get Jared Jeffries and Michael Ruffin back.

*Sigh*

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Give the guy a break. It seemed like a straightforward Q to me.

I think people just don't want to compare Gil and Caron. I admit, it's pretty hard to do. I took a stab at it, though.

I just didn't want it to become an either or thing, where it would divide loyalties. However, since several people have legitimately answer this, so will I attempt to.

Caron overcame being involved in the correctional system in order to make his mother proud. He's made lemonade out of what was just lemons. He is indeed a tough dude.

Gil came up without a reponsible mom, and he and his dad were once homeless. He's also a guy who from my vantage point has some obsessive stuff going on. Agent Zero wears his emotions publically and is a sensitive guy. I think Gil's very lonely, personally. (Been there myself.) Gil is a hard, hard worker but IMHO he's not mentally tough in some areas.

My take on the Wizards is that very clearly Caron is the better leader. He is more valuable to the team than Gilbert because more players can grow and not be in his shadow, as they are with the better player, Gilbert.

The spotlight doesn't have to be on Caron. He doesn't have to take that last shot. Caron is a patient dude who's thrilled now to see the offense being run to the second and third option. Caron is a guy who unlike Gilbert tends to get focused when challenged. Butler has a more grounded approach and is more of a marathon runner and a grinder than a sprinter.

The highs and lows with Gilbert aren't going to win games because he's not playing good defense and he's by being such a virtuoso becoming like Iverson. A team will live and die on his shooting and his ego. He's just NOT QUITE ready to win consistently.

Butler OTOH is a team guy in that he understands teams win and not guys who go out and drop 50. He is a much better leader than Gilbert, IMO.

Caron's taken DeShawn aside and pumped him up. Butlers a good floor leader when he's not forcing things. I like what he brings better than Gil just being freakishly talented.

BUT TO ADD ONE PARTING SHOT I think this is Jamison's team even more than it's Butler's. Jamison's a guy who'll coast a bit but who's very active on the boards. He's running the show behind the scenes, not Caron.

And for all the toughness attributed to Caron, I think Jamison's just as tough if not tougher. That guy studies things and is technically very sound. Jamison might whup Caron in a scrap and he definitely is the more vocal guy. He'll get lockers moved and call out people.

The Wizards are better with him leading and Caron setting the tone for naturally playing all out. Jamison's trying to not get hurt or to conserve his energy at times. So thus, the team's playing like Caron.

But the professional tone and no nonsense leadership is coming from Jamison IMO.

[Gil0]

Arenas, gun to head, but love them both...

[Shanghai Kid]

Gilbert's the better talent, and to be honest I think the whole idea of "oh they play as a team now, now they play a traditional style" is becoming overblown. Did Gilbert not lead one of the best offenses in the league last season? Was he not an MVP candidate half way through the season?

I take Gilbert simply because in the playoffs, those highs that Gilbert have can overcome anything. When Arenas has a great game, it's almost over the top. A great game for him can be outdueling Kobe, scoring the most points ever in OT, and winning the game on the road. When he's on, he can overcome a Suns team thats on a 10-15 game winning streak. He can hang with Lebron in a playoff series when he's on.

Butler actually may be more valuable to the Wizards since the Wiz have AD has a real good backup PG. Butler gives you a consistent 22ppg.

I think the Wizards went 12-3 last year in December with Arenas averaging 35ppg on 48% shooting. I have not forgotten how good Gilbert is when he's healthy. He's streaky, but the Wiz were still 10 games over .500 last season, that was without this improved defense that Gilbert has not gotten to play with.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

From the end of November 06 to mid-January 07, the Wizards were 23-7 with Gilbert.

This team's better defensively and has all the key personnel responsible for that play.

No need to worry about Gil messing this up.

[P'Oed]

Gil

3 pt shooting
Drive to the basket
FT shooting
Mid range game
Speed
Ball handling
Decent passer

Butler

Mid range game
Post game
Drive to the basket
Ball handling
FT shooting
DEFENSE
Decent passer

an overloaded offensive game versus an all-around game...pick your poison

[WaltCulver]

[quote="DC old guy"]The question isn't really which player is better, or even which is more valuable to the team, it is what kind of a team do you want. Right now, we have a traditional team, with a point guard distributing the ball to more prolific scorers, and playing good defense on the opposing point guard. With Gilbert, we have a team where the point guard is a versatile scorer and the center of attention and the other players are in a supporting role.

Old Guy, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'd restate it a little by saying which guy is the more valuable depends on match-ups -- if you've got a ball-denial, bumping defense to face that's not going to score a lot, such as Detroit's, then you're going to need Arenas-the-ball-handler to drive down the lane and either score the acrobatic shot, get the foul, or pass it off to the man open because of the collapsing defense. If you've got the traditional team to face, such as Phoenix or Dallas, then you need the traditional model yourself, with greeat defense, that doesn't revolve around Arenas's dominance with the ball.

San Antonio has been grerat because it can go either way, and if Arenas comes back healthy and smart(er), the Wizards can develop that two-way model too.

[Brenice]

I choose Gil. I remember last posession daggers. I remember a last posession shot being blocked by Josh Smith last week in the ATL. I remember breaking down defenders to get to the rim. I remember And1's. I remember the deepest range in the league. I remember jerseys getting thrown to fans. I remember Gil playing pickup in not the 'hood, but the projects of the Farms. Too much criticism has been directed towards Gil. Does Gil get the blame for Haywood missing free throws in prior years, or does Caron get the credit for that Haywood making most of them this year? What about Haywood's ability to make any shot other than a dunk for that matter? What about Haywood's inspired play? Caron's improvement is based on Caron improving, not Gil being injured. What about Blatche. The same thing. Gil had a 1-legged jumpshooter with no handle coming off the bench in Arvis and then Donnell Taylor. Caron has Nick AND Roger Mason(who has improved as well). I choose Gil. I remember. I remember!

[Spence]

Also, this question is completely skewed by present circumstances. If Butler gets hurt next year and the team stays afloat thanks to great play from Gilbert Arenas, how do you think a vote on this question would go?

[Joe Kleazy]

-= original quote snipped =-


Precisely. It's a silly question with no relevance to the real world. It's possible to compare and contrast the two players, but this question doesn't do that. This question just demands that you pick one player to dump. I don't want to dump either one, Ernie Grunfeld doesn't want to dump either one, and he doesn't have to dump either one. So what's the point?
If your delicate constitution is wounded by having to witness a silly question being called a silly question, perhaps you should be doing something else with your free time.

If that is the case then what was your point? You could have figured out what this thread was from the title and decided that your FREE time would have been better spent elsewhere. Like the guy said, he didn't intend to cause a problem. Hell its not like anyone's opinion on Real GM causes any REAL trades anyway.

Lay off the man.

[Spence]

If that is the case then what was your point? You could have figured out what this thread was from the title and decided that your FREE time would have been better spent elsewhere. Like the guy said, he didn't intend to cause a problem. Hell its not like anyone's opinion on Real GM causes any REAL trades anyway.

1. The title of the thread, "Butler or Arenas?" could be an invitation to compare the players -- which I have no problem with -- or, I suppose, it could be an invitation to announce which player you would rather get rid of for no good reason. The nature of the thread was not immediately clear so I read further.

2. I believe I made my point abundantly clear in previous posts in this thread.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

Yeah, the opposite applies... I can go in this thread, realize the question is silly and say so. If you don't like it you can stop starting threads with silly questions in them.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I'll take Cilbert, or Garon.!