legacyinthemakin89c wrote:so does that mean i can keep it until someone complains about it? lol
I didn't see a thing.
Zo unconfirms retirement after initally confirming it.
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sp6r=underrated
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BBallFreak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Bull. Players make the HOF based on the entirety of their careers, not just what they did in their primes.
I don't think averaging 17mpg while only playing 42 games per year is hall of fame production.
BBallFreak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
He was also the two time DPOY, an Olympic Gold Medalist, and a great college player (which counts).
He was still only a top 10 player two years in the NBA. He is your classic borderline player.
BBallFreak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Bill Walton ring a bell?
Bill Walton is the biggest anomaly in basketball history. His peak was much better than Alonzo. Their not comparable.
He was a one man gang carrying his team to an NBA championship. He outplayed a prime Kareem in a playoff series. The next year his team was 50-10 with him in the line up, and went 10-14 without him. Alonzo doesn't come close to having this level of impact.
BBallFreak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Hitting a buzzer beating series winner against the Celtics in 1993, legendary battles with the Knicks, and 6 shots blocked in the decisive game of the finals? Those aren't big playoff moments?
One shot doesn't make up for the fact his team routinely got knocked out by weaker teams.
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BBallFreak
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sp6r=underrated wrote:I don't think averaging 17mpg while only playing 42 games per year is hall of fame production
ya don't say?
But seriously, that's one of the more disingenuous arguments made, because it takes away his impact on a championship team.
He was still only a top 10 player two years in the NBA. He is your classic borderline player.
Again, Bull.
Not being top 10 in an era of greats doesn't diminish what you've done. Is Chris Mullin any less a hall of fame caliber player for playing in an era with Larry Bird, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajawon, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Isiah Thomas, Reggie Miller, David Robinson, James, Worthy, and Scottie Pippen, just to name a few?
Bill Walton is the biggest anomaly in basketball history. His peak was much better than Alonzo. Their not comparable.
Really?
Zo's peak was 23 and 10, Walton's peak was 19 and 13. Those numbers look comparable to me.
One shot doesn't make up for the fact his team routinely got knocked out by weaker teams.
One shot, six blocks, a whole bunch of memories, and teams that were very evenly matched. Miami never had a bench. Don't tell me they were evenly matched when they were using guys like Jon Crotty and Clarence Weatherspoon.
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Blame Rasho
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The Hall of Fame is a joke... lets get that straight.
He only had two standout years compared to his peers. It isn't like in his supposed MVP year he did much damage in the playoffs. He lost in the first round as a 1 seed. I have to mention that even if it stings. The problem is with him is that he really is borderline when you compare his resume to the people that have gotten in.
1993-NBA-All-Rookie (1st)
1999-NBA-All-Defense (1st)
1999-NBA-All-NBA (1st)
2000-NBA-All-Defense (1st)
2000-NBA-All-NBA (2nd)
and
1999-NBA-DPOY
2000-NBA-DPOY
There is nothing more or less... He isn't a lock, he is a borderline case.
In an ideal world... a person who makes the Hall of Fame is someone who stands out compared to his peers. In my opinion Zo never really did that compared to his peers. There have been players that don't stand out compared to their peers that have gotten in like Bradley,Murphy( who I believe shouldn't be in), and to a degree Dumars, but there are players like Gilmore and Dantley that deserved to be much more than Zo in my opinion. If I had I vote I wouldn't vote him in.
He only had two standout years compared to his peers. It isn't like in his supposed MVP year he did much damage in the playoffs. He lost in the first round as a 1 seed. I have to mention that even if it stings. The problem is with him is that he really is borderline when you compare his resume to the people that have gotten in.
1993-NBA-All-Rookie (1st)
1999-NBA-All-Defense (1st)
1999-NBA-All-NBA (1st)
2000-NBA-All-Defense (1st)
2000-NBA-All-NBA (2nd)
and
1999-NBA-DPOY
2000-NBA-DPOY
There is nothing more or less... He isn't a lock, he is a borderline case.
In an ideal world... a person who makes the Hall of Fame is someone who stands out compared to his peers. In my opinion Zo never really did that compared to his peers. There have been players that don't stand out compared to their peers that have gotten in like Bradley,Murphy( who I believe shouldn't be in), and to a degree Dumars, but there are players like Gilmore and Dantley that deserved to be much more than Zo in my opinion. If I had I vote I wouldn't vote him in.
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RatherUnique24
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The way Zo reacts every time he makes a basket, it may seem as if he already won a hall of fame award.
Zo can be considered hall of fame material. He's not a first ballot kind of player, but with his years in Charlotte combined with backing up Shaq in Miami, its fine to put him in the HOF.
He was one of the top bigman during his prime - and the best backup center when he had limited minutes in Miami.
Zo can be considered hall of fame material. He's not a first ballot kind of player, but with his years in Charlotte combined with backing up Shaq in Miami, its fine to put him in the HOF.
He was one of the top bigman during his prime - and the best backup center when he had limited minutes in Miami.
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magicfan4life05
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RatherUnique24 wrote:The way Zo reacts every time he makes a basket, it may seem as if he already won a hall of fame award.
Zo can be considered hall of fame material. He's not a first ballot kind of player, but with his years in Charlotte combined with backing up Shaq in Miami, its fine to put him in the HOF.
He was one of the top bigman during his prime - and the best backup center when he had limited minutes in Miami.
^ not when he makes a basket, when he blocks a shot. Big difference, reacting when you make a shot is showing off, but doing the same after a block is showing his intensity and fire imo
Dwight Howard on his FT struggles:
"I just think everybody needs to stop talking about it," Howard said. "There's more to life than free throws."
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BBallFreak
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TD is the MAN wrote:He is a great player but I don't think so...
If you* said Dominique Wilkins I would have said otherwise.
OK, let's work with Nique. Same thing stands. This is a phenomenal player who didn't "stand out" amongst some of the greatest players the game has ever seen. That doesn't diminish his accomplishments, nor should it keep him out of the Hall. Same for Zo, and Zo accomplished more, IMO...
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Blame Rasho
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BBallFreak wrote:OK, let's work with Nique. Same thing stands. This is a phenomenal player who didn't "stand out" amongst some of the greatest players the game has ever seen. That doesn't diminish his accomplishments, nor should it keep him out of the Hall. Same for Zo, and Zo accomplished more, IMO...
How did he accomplish more? 2 All NBA teams and 2 DPOY awards compared to 7 all NBA teams. Don't give me this rubbish about the championship. He was a role player nothing more. It is like giving massive amounts of credit to Horce Grant during the Chicago Bulls championship run.
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BBallFreak
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Horace Grant deserves massive amounts of credit for his time with the Bulls.
And two time DPOY and finishing in the top 5 in NBA voting two years does deserve some credit.
But again, you're diminishing Zo for playing in an era of great centers. It's not his fault that David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Ewing, and Hakeem Olajawon all played in his era, and you're attempting to punish him for it...
And two time DPOY and finishing in the top 5 in NBA voting two years does deserve some credit.
But again, you're diminishing Zo for playing in an era of great centers. It's not his fault that David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Ewing, and Hakeem Olajawon all played in his era, and you're attempting to punish him for it...
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a-rod
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TD is the MAN wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
He is a great player but I don't think so...
If you* said Dominique Wilkins I would have said otherwise.
what he done after a life-threatening kidney disease was remarkable, TD my man its not always about the stat zo impact exceeded reasonable limits.
btw his resume is not bad ether.....
pillwenney wrote:SacKingZZZ wrote:No thanks to Deng. I read a rumor surfing hoopshype awhile back saying Gay for Reke is a possibility.
Must be true, if it's a rumor you read on Hoopshype.
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BBallFreak
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a-rod wrote:what he done after a life-threatening kidney disease was remarkable, TD my man its not always about the stat zo impact exceeded reasonable limits.
btw his resume is not bad ether.....
Bingo!
Like it or not, you guys need to recognize that Zo's comeback from extreme adversity, and the level he was able to bring himself back to will positively effect his chances at getting into the hall.
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sp6r=underrated
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BBallFreak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Bingo!
Like it or not, you guys need to recognize that Zo's comeback from extreme adversity, and the level he was able to bring himself back to will positively effect his chances at getting into the hall.
I don't want to come off as a hater and his admission to the hall won't bother me that much because it is borderline.
But if you want his comeback to be acknowledged you also have to factor in what he did to the nets/raptors.
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BBallFreak
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What did he do to the Nets? Get them Vince Carter? Told them he couldn't safely play the minutes they were demanding of him?
What did he do to the Raptors? They were told beforehand that he wouldn't play for them, and they took him anyways.
I fail to see that as having a negative impact.
But you admitted that he's borderline, which is a shift from your initial stance, so I'll accept that and move on...
What did he do to the Raptors? They were told beforehand that he wouldn't play for them, and they took him anyways.
I fail to see that as having a negative impact.
But you admitted that he's borderline, which is a shift from your initial stance, so I'll accept that and move on...
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sp6r=underrated
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BBallFreak wrote:But you admitted that he's borderline, which is a shift from your initial stance, so I'll accept that and move on...
How have I shifted, in my second post I made clear that I felt he was borderline.
This is what I wrote
In short a very good career but not a hall of famer. I understand why people feel otherwise
I understand why people feel otherwise, made clear that I felt a case could be made. So don't put words in my mouth.
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BBallFreak
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1st post: Alonzo had a very good career but he was not a hall of famer.
2nd post: In short a very good career but not a hall of famer.
Afterwards, you said you understood how some people could feel otherwise. That's not you softening your stance, that's you adding a caveat.
As an example, Antoine Walker is garbage. I can understand why some people feel otherwise.
Does that mean I don't think he's garbage? No, It means I can understand why some people wouldn't (again, it was an example - no I don't understand why they'd feel otherwise)...
2nd post: In short a very good career but not a hall of famer.
Afterwards, you said you understood how some people could feel otherwise. That's not you softening your stance, that's you adding a caveat.
As an example, Antoine Walker is garbage. I can understand why some people feel otherwise.
Does that mean I don't think he's garbage? No, It means I can understand why some people wouldn't (again, it was an example - no I don't understand why they'd feel otherwise)...