Gilbert Arenas this summer?

[Raptors90102]

big woopdie doo, salary cap. LUXURY TAX, HELLO!!!!

hence the proposal for TJ+Bargz+Joey+pick for Arenas S&T.

[The_Hater]

big woopdie doo, salary cap. LUXURY TAX, HELLO!!!!

When you make trades.... salary in --> equal salary out.

So even if you take on a little more salary in the deal, pretty hard to see how that puts a team barely over the cap into luxury tax territory.

[undisputed55]

This would be a dream come true. All the people saying Gilbert isn't a character guy couldn't be more wrong. Gil just wants to win. I'm sure that if we gave up TJ + Bargs + Expiring contracts of Joey and Rasho + 1st rounder then Washington will definitely give it a serious look.

Also, integrating Gilbert into this system will in turn cause him to want to play more defensively. No one in Washington plays D, so he doesn't see it as being a big deal. Come to the Raptors however, and defense is something that our players take seriously. It's a contagious thing and Gilbert would catch on to it quickly.

[The_Hater]

This would be a dream come true. All the people saying Gilbert isn't a character guy couldn't be more wrong. Gil just wants to win. I'm sure that if we gave up TJ + Bargs + Expiring contracts of Joey and Rasho + 1st rounder then Washington will definitely give it a serious look.

Also, integrating Gilbert into this system will in turn cause him to want to play more defensively. No one in Washington plays D, so he doesn't see it as being a big deal. Come to the Raptors however, and defense is something that our players take seriously. It's a contagious thing and Gilbert would catch on to it quickly.

This is a stretch. While I think that Gilbert has the ability to play better D, I don't think that leaving one fringe playoff team for another will be the sole catalyst that turns him onto it. It's not like we're a defensive juggarnaut or anything.

Also Washington has improved from 28th in the league defensively last year to 16th this year with his subtraction the only major change. and it's the main reason that they've remained in the playoff hunt without him.

Now that I think about it, that last fact is making me rethink all my previous pro-Gilbert comments.

[Harry Palmer]

Gilbert is close to the epitome of the kind of player I think you'll never ultimately win with. At least not as a main cog.

He dominates an offense and is a volume guy, and his results don't usually justify the expense, especially at the point.

He's a ton of fun to watch, on and off the court, and he can have absolutely awesome games or runs, but in terms of what he does to your team structure, he has something of the effect that AI has/had, which in my opinion is, even accepting the exceptional individual talent, not something I want on my team.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with any alleged character issues, btw.

[AfricanSensation]

I dont see how a guard can be so bad defensively that he would single handedly destroy our entire defense. That could be true for a Center but a guard?

IMO its clear that Gil is not quick enough to guard many PGs but at the 2 it could be different.

Anyway even if he is still bad guarding SGs IMO Gil + Rasho or Hump gives you a better defensive team on the floor than Parker and Bargs just because I think that having a Center that rebound, block out and play position D is the most important thing.

I mean anyone here will really be against this?

Jose-Roko
Arenas-Parker
Moon, Fino
Bosh-Garbo
Rasho, Hump

And we would have Rasho+ Parker+Graham and Garbo as expiring deals, thats 18 million to go after another big time player if necessary, like a Dalembert for example. And we would have our pick next year to sweeten the deal or feel a need.

IMO we will never have enough cap space in 2009 anyway, so using these expiring deals to get a big name player next season is probably BC s real plan.

[REM]

-= original quote snipped =-



19 teams in the league currently have 4 players on their payroll making at least a combined $40 million in salary. That list includes Boston, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Utah, Houston, Denver and the Lakers.

Or pretty much every top team in the league.

Good point, but no way we would have Caldy, Arenas, Bosh and then get Dalembert like the poster was suggesting. Well actually, if that team would gel, it wouldn't be that bad at all.

[Danchan]

fg%

[Hendrix]

But you could say that about any star player. Kobe, TMac, Bron, Wade.

As I mentioned earlier, I see Arenas a lot like I see Iverson. And part way through AI's career coaches finally realized that you were best off with him playing SG instead of PG. And he's played that position (for the most part) every since. And it wasn't because AI couldn't play the position, but because you don't really want a high volume shooter initiating the offense. That often promotes selfishness as everybody doesn't always get involved. Wade and Bron were 2 more guys that started as PG's but eventually moved to the wing.

As for the bad defensive tandom? You're dead right. And that would be a problem. But I've always thought that if you have a star player who is very difficult to guard (in this case Arenas), you more often than not force the other teams to match up with you. Not the other way around. Similar to the problems Golden St. creates with Ellis and Davis in the backcourt or when the Suns play Nash and Barbosa together for long stretches.

But it might end up backfiring as well. Or it might just force us to keep Moon at SF and find a defensive minded Center to help cover up all the mistakes in the backcourt.

GM's also realized that for Iverson to win they needed to suround him with solid defensive players. His team that went to the NBA finals had ver good defenders all around him. I like the idea of having an unselfish player to either run the point or SG beside him. Baron's also a solid defender, and GS has the worst defence in the league. So i don't know if that's what I want. Plus Ellis causes a lot more matchup problemns then Calderon does.

Personally I think for it to work offensivly all you need is Bosh to get touches, and Gil to get touches then let everybody else play off of them. In Washington gil had two 20 pt scorers on his team so I don't think getting Bosh touches would be a problem. He aslo has a usage rate the same as LBJ's, and Assist rate the same as LBJ's who we all know can share the ball. I don't think our offence would be a problem with him at the point. Washington had one of the best offences in the league last year with him at PG.

Mostly I just think that defensive back court would let a lot go, and they would be perfecently fine offensivly with 2 all stars, and solid role players around them.

But agree to disagree I guess.

I think we need Calderon's intelligence and calm on the floor especially when Arenas is playing for us. Arenas has a tendancy to do too many things on his own and could possibly ignore Bosh. What we need is a floor general (who wouldn't demand that he be a first-secnd offensive option, Calderon fits the mould) and make plays for the team. If Bosh needs to be fed into the post, he'll feed him. If Arenas has a good shot, he'll get it. All we need is Calderon's ability to bring the ball up the floor and direct plays and feed the ball to the right guy. Arenas, too often, gets pretty selfish and decides to be a one-man wrecking machine, which won't work in Sam's unselfish system. As well, how many times have we seen Arenas bringing the ball up the floor and jaacking up a quick shot when his teammates had a much better chance at knocking a shot down. What we need is Arenas playing the 2, and attarcting as much attention from the defence as possible and Calderon to feed the ball to Bosh and let Arenas and Bosh break the opposition defences down. Arenas is big enough to play the 2 spot.

As for your argument of poor backcourt defence, well, Arenas is even poorer defensively, so having him guard point guards (who all happen to be quick) would be an even worst option if he were playing the 1. Atleast Calderon does a much better job than Arenas defensively. Arenas can guard the 2's better since not many teams have dominant 2's hat will need the best defender on them. Parker/Delfino/Moon can take care of guarding the 3's (and in the case of the likes of Kobe, they can take Kobe). Like I said, the Jose-Arenas backcourt defensive deficiencies can be somewhat covered by having imposing post presences. A centre like Dalembert to pair up with Bosh and Moon would provide good weekside help and shotblocking to Jose and Arenas. I say Dalembert because he doesn't have to be an offensive option (except for put backs, alley oops and dunks) and would be a workhorse on the board, not to mention a shotblocker.

I would do TJ+Bargz+Joey G's expiring and even a first round pick to get Arenas, you're talking about a 25 yr old superstar here.

And then if Philly wants to get rid of his hefty contract, get Dalembert with Rasho's expiring + a pick ot two.

In order to become contenders, we will need to take up some contracts, but it would well worthed. Just imagine, Jose-Arenas-Moon-Bosh-Dalembert. Wow!

Pretty much summed up most of my thoughs in my last post for offence. But Calderon is not a better defender then Arenas, nor does Arenas have the size to gaurd SG's effectivly. There is a ton of hard SG's to gaurd. He'd have Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Ben Gordon, Michael Redd, Caron butler, Tmac, Ginobili, Kevin Martin, Ellis, Kobe, Durant, Iverson, and Roy. You can put your 3 on these guys, but then you have 6"3 Arenas trying to gaurd the other teams forward which I don't think you really want. Personally I think the PG position is currently weaker then the SG position in the NBA.


I do like the idea of pulling some moves like Dalembert in parrallel if a trade ever happened. But personaly I'de also do a Calderon for a quality SF out of the Gerald Wallace mould.


Arenas
Parker
Wallace
Bosh
Dalmebert

Could rebound the ball, defend much better, score the ball very well, and have a crunch time player imo.

[Hendrix]

fg%

Gils TS% was 56.5% last year. Above Vince Carter, Lebron James, Joe Johnson, Carmel Anthony etc....etc...

[AllKnowingNBAer]

I don't see how our cap situation gets ruined by acquiring Gilbert. Assuming we trade away Ford and Bargnani in the proposed Arenas deal, our salaries for the 2008 season look like this:

Chris Bosh $14,410,581
Gilbert Arenas $12,804,000*
Rasho Nesterovic $8,400,000 (FA)
Jason Kapono $5,784,480
Anthony Parker $4,550,000 (FA)
Jorge Garbajosa $4,250,000 (FA)
Kris Humphries $3,000,000*
Jose Calderon $8,000,000*
Carlos Delfino $2,744,299 (FA)
Maceo Baston $1,976,400 (FA)
Joey Graham $2,449,184 (FA)
Jamario Moon $711,517 (FA)
Roko Ukic $600,000*
Rookie Free Agent $1,000,000

* - estimated 2008-09 salaries

Total salary for 14 players: $70,680,461

Scary number, but this is the total salary for a full roster of 14 players and there are also seven free agents for Toronto that year whose salaries total to $25,081,400.

This is what keeps things under control. Every team has thei high salary players, but our high salary players (Bosh, Arenas, Caldy) earn their salaries. Our remaining medium to high salary players are on short term deals, that make them easy to trade and deal with. If things don't work out, it is easier to fix.

[JD225]

Gilbert would mean an end to both Jose and TJ. Any combinitation of Jose/Gilbert or TJ/Gilbert would be a disaster.

I'm not all that high on a guy who tells the media he is going to score 50 on x team either.

[AfricanSensation]

A Jose-Arenas backcourt would not be worse defensively than the Nash-Barbosa tandem...

[REM]

Gilbert would mean an end to both Jose and TJ. Any combinitation of Jose/Gilbert or TJ/Gilbert would be a disaster.

I'm not all that high on a guy who tells the media he is going to score 50 on x team either.

All in good fun.

[Raptors90102]

People opposing this idea don't know how scary the raps will become.

You'll have the best young 3 in the game , Bar none! (Roy, Oden and Aldridge don't count, atleast just yet)

Bosh 23 yrs old
Arenas 25
Jose 26

We can become contenders for the next 8 yrs ATLEAST!

Also, Arenas' crazy yet unharmful personality + Smitch's spicy nature = Probably THE best interview team ever assembled. He and Bosh will put Raptors on the map.

[EnigmaticProblem]

lol..

[Teabag]

I don't think it's even 1% possible that Arenas will be a Raptor but to get him we'd have to S&T for him as other posters have pointed out and some of the suggestions are a combination of Calderon, Bargnani, Rasho, Ford and a #1 pick ... now, I've been hearing and it seems to be true (the 2 wins over boston say so) that the Wiz are better without him and as good as a player that he is they might actually be a better team as a whole and now we want to give them one of our PG's where both are on the verge of being an allstar and/or a 22 year old 1st overall pick with the potential to be really good and/or a 7' playoff tested 5 that can start or come off the bench and doesn't complain and/or a 1st round pick? ... how good do we want to make a conference rival for many years to come? ... if we had the straight cap room than fine but in no way do I want to stack a team that just beat Boston 2 games in a row and is ahead of us now and could be for many years