"Kobe Shooting Too Much" Thread

[The Laker Kid]

It is true that Kobe attempted way too many shots, but I personally felt that it was something that he had to do in order for us to win... other than Kobe, no one else was hitting their shot.

In the next few games though, I would like to see a Kobe-Fisher duo.

One positive that I can take from last night's game -- is that Kobe WANTED to win. BAD. He wanted that #1 spot in the West, and you can tell. At least that's what it looks like..

[milesfides]

We can talk about how Kobe shot too much all day long, but let's not over-analyze this too much. Look, Kwame was an offensive dud in the post. Odom shot 3-15. Nothing was going for him whatsoever. Walton was dry, 1-6. Fisher shot poorly at the beginning, ended up hitting 5-10 shots. He also had zero rebounds and zero assists.

The starting lineup absolutely failed us. Should Kobe have fed Kwame more? Run the pick and roll with him? Should Kobe have kicked it out to Walton or Odom more to shoot jumpers?

Let's be real. The only two guys who could do anything offensively, in the starting lineup were Kobe and Fisher. It's no surprise Kobe took a lot of shots, because they still were our BEST shots, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong, 44 is a high number, but if you think Walton, Odom, or Kwame should have had more opportunities, I would say you didn't watch the game.

But really, the real problem was our defense. Specifically, our post defense. Kwame and Odom didn't contest any shots. I'm not sure either of them actually jumped on defense the entire game. They way they play defense? Stop, stand, and raise your arms. The Sonics scored around them, over them, under them. Moreover, their pick-and-roll defense was at an all time low. They were incredibly unprepared, and the word "recover" is not part of Odom or Kwame's working knowledge.

Some players did play defense. Kobe limited Kevin Durant to 6-26. Ariza was everywhere. Turiaf gave some hard fouls. Fisher tried his best to keep up with the quick guards' footspeed. Farmar tried his best to fight through picks.

But let's get back to complaining about Kobe's shots. Kobe shot 44 shots last night. I wish he shot 20 more. If Odom and Walton aren't going to make themselves threats, then they should pass up shots and give them to Kobe, because as a fan, I don't want to see some of that incredibly weak stuff I saw from them.

[SnakeEyez]

Today I read a lot of articles on the Lakers and read many posts. I heard the Lakers get trashed on their own radio station. Yahoo is making fun of the Lakers, everywhere you look its Kobe shot too much, its back to the Los Angeles Kobes. I dont get it Andrew Bynum goes down and we dont get respect for making number 1. I wrote a long letter to dumb ass on yahoo because this what he wrote.

"Lakers lead with an asterisk - Title Article"
The his Statement -

1. Los Angeles Lakers

[milesfides]

Complain, refute, discuss here.

[incontrol__]

We can talk about how Kobe shot too much all day long, but let's not over-analyze this too much. Look, Kwame was an offensive dud in the post. Odom shot 3-15. Nothing was going for him whatsoever. Walton was dry, 1-6. Fisher shot poorly at the beginning, ended up hitting 5-10 shots. He also had zero rebounds and zero assists.

The starting lineup absolutely failed us. Should Kobe have fed Kwame more? Run the pick and roll with him? Should Kobe have kicked it out to Walton or Odom more to shoot jumpers?

Let's be real. The only two guys who could do anything offensively, in the starting lineup were Kobe and Fisher. It's no surprise Kobe took a lot of shots, because they still were our BEST shots, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong, 44 is a high number, but if you think Walton, Odom, or Kwame should have had more opportunities, I would say you didn't watch the game.

But really, the real problem was our defense. Specifically, our post defense. Kwame and Odom didn't contest any shots. I'm not sure either of them actually jumped on defense the entire game. They way they play defense? Stop, stand, and raise your arms. The Sonics scored around them, over them, under them. Moreover, their pick-and-roll defense was at an all time low. They were incredibly unprepared, and the word "recover" is not part of Odom or Kwame's working knowledge.

Some players did play defense. Kobe limited Kevin Durant to 6-26. Ariza was everywhere. Turiaf gave some hard fouls. Fisher tried his best to keep up with the quick guards' footspeed. Farmar tried his best to fight through picks.

But let's get back to complaining about Kobe's shots. Kobe shot 44 shots last night. I wish he shot 20 more. If Odom and Walton aren't going to make themselves threats, then they should pass up shots and give them to Kobe, because as a fan, I don't want to see some of that incredibly weak stuff I saw from them.

I don't really love doing the whole "+1" thing but.. +1.

[zen_4_10]

But really, the real problem was our defense. Specifically, our post defense. Kwame and Odom didn't contest any shots. I'm not sure either of them actually jumped on defense the entire game. They way they play defense? Stop, stand, and raise your arms. The Sonics scored around them, over them, under them. Moreover, their pick-and-roll defense was at an all time low. They were incredibly unprepared, and the word "recover" is not part of Odom or Kwame's working knowledge.

Some players did play defense. Kobe limited Kevin Durant to 6-26. Ariza was everywhere. Turiaf gave some hard fouls. Fisher tried his best to keep up with the quick guards' footspeed. Farmar tried his best to fight through picks.

I couldn't watch the game but you just pointed out probably one of my biggest pet peeves about these 2 guys on defense.

[semi-sentient]

We can talk about how Kobe shot too much all day long, but let's not over-analyze this too much. Look, Kwame was an offensive dud in the post. Odom shot 3-15. Nothing was going for him whatsoever. Walton was dry, 1-6. Fisher shot poorly at the beginning, ended up hitting 5-10 shots. He also had zero rebounds and zero assists.

Just because Walton is 1-6 doesn't mean he needs to be shut out of the offense. How many times does Kobe start 2-10 and end up 9-21 or something like that? Guys need to get touches to get into a good rhythm.

The starting lineup absolutely failed us. Should Kobe have fed Kwame more? Run the pick and roll with him?

Yes. Everyone knows that Kwame has confidence issues, so it would be to the benefit of the team to get him some early opportunities so that he can make a positive impact on the offensive end. That said, we shouldn't overdo it, and I'd be fine with Kwame taking 7 or 8 a game.

Should Kobe have kicked it out to Walton or Odom more to shoot jumpers?

Odom, no. Walton (and Fisher), yes.

Let's be real. The only two guys who could do anything offensively, in the starting lineup were Kobe and Fisher. It's no surprise Kobe took a lot of shots, because they still were our BEST shots, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong, 44 is a high number, but if you think Walton, Odom, or Kwame should have had more opportunities, I would say you didn't watch the game.

They were not our BEST shots. I watched the game twice yesterday and I saw plenty of times where Kobe forced the issue and didn't pass to a wide open man. Again, I realize that Kobe is going to take more shots, but he has got to do a better job of recognizing when teammates are open. What better time for someone else to get on track than when they are wide open?

But really, the real problem was our defense. Specifically, our post defense. Kwame and Odom didn't contest any shots. I'm not sure either of them actually jumped on defense the entire game. They way they play defense? Stop, stand, and raise your arms. The Sonics scored around them, over them, under them. Moreover, their pick-and-roll defense was at an all time low. They were incredibly unprepared, and the word "recover" is not part of Odom or Kwame's working knowledge.

Some players did play defense. Kobe limited Kevin Durant to 6-26. Ariza was everywhere. Turiaf gave some hard fouls. Fisher tried his best to keep up with the quick guards' footspeed. Farmar tried his best to fight through picks.

No arguments there... our defense stunk, and a large part of that was due to Kwame and Odom not giving much of an effort on that end.

But let's get back to complaining about Kobe's shots. Kobe shot 44 shots last night. I wish he shot 20 more. If Odom and Walton aren't going to make themselves threats, then they should pass up shots and give them to Kobe, because as a fan, I don't want to see some of that incredibly weak stuff I saw from them.

Complaining? I see it more as constructive criticism, if that's allowable when discussing Kobe. It's not like we have a bunch of B-Scott type remarks that are meant to stir poop up.

Anyway, Odom had his opportunities and failed miserably. Walton did not. Walton is a better 3-point shooter than Kobe (because he gets wide open shots), but if he's not getting opportunities, then how can we say he didn't make himself a threat? I'm not saying he's some kind of awesome offensive player, but if he's wide open, you have to get him the ball. Walton isn't the only one this happened to. I recall several times when D-Fish had a wide open opportunity and was overlooked.

Would you rather have Kobe shoot over a double team or take your chances with a wide open 3-pointer?

[ChocolateThundr]

-= original quote snipped =-



Complaining? I see it more as constructive criticism, if that's allowable when discussing Kobe. It's not like we have a bunch of B-Scott type remarks that are meant to stir poop up.

Anyway, Odom had his opportunities and failed miserably. Walton did not. Walton is a better 3-point shooter than Kobe (because he gets wide open shots), but if he's not getting opportunities, then how can we say he didn't make himself a threat? I'm not saying he's some kind of awesome offensive player, but if he's wide open, you have to get him the ball. Walton isn't the only one this happened to. I recall several times when D-Fish had a wide open opportunity and was overlooked.

Would you rather have Kobe shoot over a double team or take your chances with a wide open 3-pointer?

Kobe over a double team unless its Farmar or Fisher shooting the open 3. I just dont trust anyone else in that game

[tayzer]

I don't like one on five basketball, but that game was an exception, no one was doing anything.

On paper the Sonics are better than us outside on Kobe. Their center, pf, sf,g was better than ours. If we can somehow get a center besides Kwame than Kobe can share the ball. Kwame is not capable of making a wide open layup. And when the game is on the line Odom chokes, he only plays well when there's no pressure on him to score, like when Bynum is around because no one notice him when Bynum n Kobe get all the attention.

[tayzer]

Walton and Fisher wide open? I didn't see Fisher wide open. If Fisher is wide open Kobe always find him. I did not see the Sonics leave Fisher open at all, they know he's a good shooter.

As far and Walton, he'll just pass on the shot and try to pass the ball and probabay get a turn over like always.

Kobe did what he had to do to win. I perfer him play team ball, but it just wasn't gonna happen if they wanted to win.

[Gerald3Wallace]

if it wasn't for kobe...the lakers wouldnt have won so that guy can shut his mouth

[milesfides]

Just because Walton is 1-6 doesn't mean he needs to be shut out of the offense. How many times does Kobe start 2-10 and end up 9-21 or something like that? Guys need to get touches to get into a good rhythm.

No, I don't think Walton or Odom was shut out of the offense. First of all, both players ended up with 7 assists. They did a lot of passing, everybody else was doing the scoring. The problem was that they weren't SCORING threats, and neither was Kwame. That IS Odom and Walton's fault. How many times did they try to create or do something offensively, only to kick it back to Kobe to get us a shot?

Kobe took a lot of shots with the clock running down, directly because of the other players' inability to get anything going. Kobe didn't take 44 shots early in the clock, many of those were bail out shots.

Walton and Odom were terrible going to the cup. So, what should we do, keep feeding the ball to them and pray they start making baskets, while the Sonics are scoring every time at the other end?

Yes. Everyone knows that Kwame has confidence issues, so it would be to the benefit of the team to get him some early opportunities so that he can make a positive impact on the offensive end. That said, we shouldn't overdo it, and I'd be fine with Kwame taking 7 or 8 a game.

Exactly, and when it is appropriate that your starting center takes only 7-8 shots a game, that means he's not much of a threat, which Kwame isn't. Because Kwame is a terrible finisher, and an even worse free throw shooter. There's absolutely little to be gained by establishing Kwame in the post unless we have a CLEAR advantage against the other team. It was clear we didn't. Collison, Thomas, and Wilcox scored 52 points. We got blown another butthole in the post.

Odom, no. Walton (and Fisher), yes.

So Kobe should have passed up jumpers to feed Walton, who was 1-6?

They were not our BEST shots. I watched the game twice yesterday and I saw plenty of times where Kobe forced the issue and didn't pass to a wide open man. Again, I realize that Kobe is going to take more shots, but he has got to do a better job of recognizing when teammates are open. What better time for someone else to get on track than when they are wide open?

Right in theory, but wrong in the game situation. Both Walton and Odom have a history of being passive scorers and lacking the confidence and ability to shoot. Walton passed up a ton of shots yesterday. Odom didn't, and he missed. I'm not sure what's worse, but it's the same problem. Neither Odom nor Walton are very good outside shooters right now. Walton is shooting a very nice 39% from three, but he's averaging 1.5 a game. He's not a volume shooter. He missed both yesterday. He was "off."

See, there's a big difference between Odom/Walton and Fisher. Fisher and Kobe have the confidence and ability to make jumpers. They'll miss a few, then make a few. They can get hot, and they're always a threat.

Odom and Walton never had that type of confidence or ability, which is why in a game situation, if they're off, you go to Fisher, Kobe, or Farmar, who are capable shooters.

Would you rather have Kobe shoot over a double team or take your chances with a wide open 3-pointer?

That's a misleading question, because Kobe doesn't frequently shoot over double teams. He is almost always single-covered until he drives to the basket. Second, Odom and Walton did shoot open threes. They were 0-5.

[b shaw20]

As long as he recognizes that when the rest of the guys are struggling, I have no problem with Kobe shooting as much as he did last night. And this was the case. However, if guys like Farmar or Fish or even Odom have a flow - he should recognize that as well and let them do their thing.

The biggest pet peeve I have with Kobe is his clock management at the end of quarters or even game. He should make sure there is no time left on the clock when he puts it up to avoid leaving enough time for the opponent to counter. He did it last night...in a tied game you always want to have the last shot and even if you miss, the worst case scenario is another overtime. (KD also was guilty of this in regulation shooting with 8 secs left.)

The shot he took was a vintage Kobe pull up, but can get that shot anytime he wants. We were lucky that they missed an even more lucky that Collison was not behind the 3 pt line for a desperation 3 that would have won it for the sonics.

I blame Phil for not pointing this out to him and making him correct this. Had we lost that game, it would have really, really stung as it would have been out of plain stupidity.

Sign C-Webb and lets get on with the show. No Kwame... I will take Bynum's left shoe instead of Kwame.

[milesfides]

No, that's not always the case. In all of my experience watching basketball, teams run the shot clock down to under 10 seconds, then make their move.

You want to take the best shot available in that 10 seconds.

The problem with running the shot clock too far down is:

1. no second chance opportunities

2. friction

By friction, I mean everything that can go wrong. The opponent can suddenly spring a trap. It's much easier to chase and collapse on a guy with 3 seconds left than 10 seconds left. 10 seconds allows a reaction to a defensive play.

[tnayrbrocks]

Would you rather have Kobe shoot over a double team or take your chances with a wide open 3-pointer?

That's a misleading question, because Kobe doesn't frequently shoot over double teams. He is almost always single-covered until he drives to the basket. Second, Odom and Walton did shoot open threes. They were 0-5.

I agree, the sonics were playing single coverage on Kobe for a majority of the game which gave him the green light while his teammates were struggling.

[Sedale Threatt]

Some good arguments on both sides, with the usual suspects leading the way. I'm always going to lean towards the less-shots-for-one-individual, more-team-play argument. It's just how I think the game should generally be played.

But as Miles said, hands down, no questions asked, our biggest problem last night was defense. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but we spend a ton of time harping on offense -- Kobe's shooting too much, Odom's not pulling his weight, etc. -- when defense, as well as we've played this season, is usually a much bigger problem. It certainly was last night.

Regarding Kobe's shot total -- it was maybe the second or third game this season, with the opener against Houston coming immediately to mind, where I thought he overdid it. And considering the circumstances -- no Drew, on the road, starting lineup struggling -- I'm willing to cut him some slack. For the most part, as much as his shot selection drives me nuts, he's done a good job sacrificing his own offense for the sake of the team.

Also, we won, and every victory we get without Drew is precious, so I'm not going to be overly picky about one game.

My big concern is that we don't fall into a habit of it over the next few months. Because no matter what the circumstances were, no matter who's to "blame," we will never, ever win anything of any importance if we're relying on Kobe to shoot every other trip down court for any lengthy stretch.

We've made the playoffs the past two years that way. But we should be beyond that, even with our second best player out. Let's hope everyone, from Kobe on down to Coby, does their part to make sure it doesn't happen.

[dockingsched]

lakers offense is almost never a problem. i'm probably going to sound repetitive but this board is just too occupied with offense. threads calling for freakin randolph, calling for people to step up offensively, kobe shooting too much, who cares!. lakers only concern should be playing good defense consistently. it wasn't there last night. the offense was. i'd like to see threads titled "pick n roll defense sucks!", "get off the damn floor kwame/odom", "stop hacking ronny, you're a good player", "amare can't guard kwame". i'm not going to start them but someone sure as heck should.

[52-12-7]

Kobe wants the scoring title. Now he has a good excuse to chuck away since Bynum is down. He is not forced to shoot that much because his teammates can't make the shot. He shot 11 times in the first quarter. Lot of them were taken as soon as he caught the ball. He is trying to get his rhythm early so he can have a big scoring night.

Get use to more chucking from Kobe. At least for eight more weeks, because that's how much time he has to catch Lebron.

[LLcoleJ]

Kobe wants the scoring title. Now he has a good excuse to chuck away since Bynum is down. He is not forced to shoot that much because his teammates can't make the shot. He shot 11 times in the first quarter. Lot of them were taken as soon as he caught the ball. He is trying to get his rhythm early so he can have a big scoring night.

Get use to more chucking from Kobe. At least for eight more weeks, because that's how much time he was to catch Lebron.

So let me get this straight... You think the only thing Kobe wants is the scoring title? I really hope you forgot to include green font.

[semi-sentient]

No, I don't think Walton or Odom was shut out of the offense. First of all, both players ended up with 7 assists. They did a lot of passing, everybody else was doing the scoring. The problem was that they weren't SCORING threats, and neither was Kwame. That IS Odom and Walton's fault. How many times did they try to create or do something offensively, only to kick it back to Kobe to get us a shot?

Just to clarify, I didn't say Odom was shut out of the offense. My point was that Luke and Fisher had some wide open opportunities that were missed because Kobe was trying to do too much. While Walton might have passed a couple up, we should still kick it out to him if he's open, if for no other reason than to break the defense down. I don't really see him passing up too many wide open 3 pointers though, unless he thinks there is a better play to be made.

Kobe took a lot of shots with the clock running down, directly because of the other players' inability to get anything going. Kobe didn't take 44 shots early in the clock, many of those were bail out shots.

I understand that, but there were plenty of shots that were not so great. Kobe established very early in the game that he was going to take it upon himself and not really look to get everyone involved, so that's more of what I have a problem with. It's not so much that he didn't get individuals such as Kwame or Walton involved, just that he wasn't looking to really get his teammates involved period. Maybe this was just a one game thing because he felt that the teams confidence took a hit, but I have to think that our guys are a little above that at this point. Mostly.

I think my main beef is that I don't want Kobe reverting to this style of play and not recognizing that this is basically the same team that jumped out to a 26-13 start last season. Trusting his teammates now is going to prepare us more for when it counts -- in the post-season.