"Kobe Shooting Too Much" Thread

[Tommy Trojan]

Kobe wants the scoring title. Now he has a good excuse to chuck away since Bynum is down. He is not forced to shoot that much because his teammates can't make the shot. He shot 11 times in the first quarter. Lot of them were taken as soon as he caught the ball. He is trying to get his rhythm early so he can have a big scoring night.

Get use to more chucking from Kobe. At least for eight more weeks, because that's how much time he has to catch Lebron.

Are you a Kobe hater ballboy?

[Sedale Threatt]

I am exceedingly quick criticize Kobe, particularly as it relates to how many shots he takes, and the quality thereof.

But I am 100 percent certain that the scoring title is the least of his concerns.

[semi-sentient]

But as Miles said, hands down, no questions asked, our biggest problem last night was defense. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but we spend a ton of time harping on offense -- Kobe's shooting too much, Odom's not pulling his weight, etc. -- when defense, as well as we've played this season, is usually a much bigger problem.

Indeed it was our biggest problem, but getting guys involved on the offensive end is going to have them playing with more energy on defense. I'm not excusing our guys from playing without energy just because they weren't flowing offensively, but that seems to be how it works for our guys, Ronny excluded.

[Sedale Threatt]

As you can read, I am right there with you regarding the shot distribution on our team. But one should never affect the other. As my coach always used to harp, your shot might not be falling, but you can ALWAYS play defense. Our effort in that area last night was beyond pitiful, no ifs, ands or buts.

[52-12-7]

-= original quote snipped =-




So let me get this straight... You think the only thing Kobe wants is the scoring title? I really hope you forgot to include green font.

It's not the only thing he wants. It's one of many things he wants. I was just suprised to see Kobe go back to the chucker mode because I thought he grew out of that this year. I maybe wrong, but I think he is trying to chase the scoring title. We'll see how he approaches the game for the next few weeks.

Sorry, if I came out like a hater. Didn't mean to stir up the pot.

[lataflava00]

honestly, 123 points (115 in regulation time) is more than enough to beat any team in the NBA. if a team lets the opponent, let alone the seattle supersonics score 115, you deserve to lose no matter what. kobe shooting 44 shots is honestly the least of our concern. the team as a whole played well offense, no matter how many shots kobe took.

the second unit played with a lot of defensive intensity, thus the positive efficiency ratings for ariza, farmar etc.

[vincanity1]

It's a given that Kobe will have to shoot a lot more with Andrew's absence, the key will be the quality of the shots. Kobe is the best scorer in the game and there is no reason he can't score 30+ efficiently.

[Deuce33]

We can talk about how Kobe shot too much all day long, but let's not over-analyze this too much. Look, Kwame was an offensive dud in the post. Odom shot 3-15. Nothing was going for him whatsoever. Walton was dry, 1-6. Fisher shot poorly at the beginning, ended up hitting 5-10 shots. He also had zero rebounds and zero assists.

The starting lineup absolutely failed us. Should Kobe have fed Kwame more? Run the pick and roll with him? Should Kobe have kicked it out to Walton or Odom more to shoot jumpers?

Let's be real. The only two guys who could do anything offensively, in the starting lineup were Kobe and Fisher. It's no surprise Kobe took a lot of shots, because they still were our BEST shots, generally speaking. Don't get me wrong, 44 is a high number, but if you think Walton, Odom, or Kwame should have had more opportunities, I would say you didn't watch the game.

But really, the real problem was our defense. Specifically, our post defense. Kwame and Odom didn't contest any shots. I'm not sure either of them actually jumped on defense the entire game. They way they play defense? Stop, stand, and raise your arms. The Sonics scored around them, over them, under them. Moreover, their pick-and-roll defense was at an all time low. They were incredibly unprepared, and the word "recover" is not part of Odom or Kwame's working knowledge.

Some players did play defense. Kobe limited Kevin Durant to 6-26. Ariza was everywhere. Turiaf gave some hard fouls. Fisher tried his best to keep up with the quick guards' footspeed. Farmar tried his best to fight through picks.

But let's get back to complaining about Kobe's shots. Kobe shot 44 shots last night. I wish he shot 20 more. If Odom and Walton aren't going to make themselves threats, then they should pass up shots and give them to Kobe, because as a fan, I don't want to see some of that incredibly weak stuff I saw from them.

I love you..no homo, nah j/k but really great post Miles

[snaquille oatmeal]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep16jan16,1,5335179.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers

Victory wasn't a shared experience
Even with Bynum hurt, Jackson wants more equitable distribution of shots than he saw in Monday's win over Seattle, when Bryant had 44 attempts. The triangle was distorted, the offense unbalanced. Somewhere, Tex Winter, the architect of the triangle offense, was cringing.

The Lakers didn't win a game in Seattle as much as they survived it, sneaking past the SuperSonics in overtime Monday night thanks to Kobe Bryant's season-high 48 points. Or maybe it was despite Bryant's 48 points.

teammates began deferring to him and passing up their own shots as the game progressed, notably Luke Walton and Lamar Odom. Both were yanked by Coach Phil Jackson early in overtime and sat out a little more than a minute before returning. Odom seemed particularly surprised, taking a long, slow walk to the bench as the substitutes entered.

Kwame Brown had 10 points and 10 rebounds in his first start in almost two months. He played a season-high 39 minutes and looked fatigued at times, confused at others. "I think he got tired and Ronny [Turiaf] had [too many] fouls, so he had to play through it. . . . There was no one else to take his position," Jackson said.

[milesfides]

The biggest problem I have with this whole "trusting teammates" thing is that they need to actually be worthy of trust.

There is no question that when one player shoots 44 times, that raises a red flag. The easy answer is, just pass more Kobe. Get everybody involved. Everybody involved could be a good thing, if they're actually doing anything, but it could be a bad thing, for example, when everybody is involved on the receiving end of an ass-kicking. Because when Kobe doesn't kick into gear and play deus ex machina when our team needs it, we can get embarrassed pretty quickly.

What I have a problem with is this suggestion that Kobe is some selfish idiot. First of all, he had no problem passing up shots to teammates when/if they were rolling. We've seen it all year. Kobe has no problem passing to Bynum and Fisher. Why? Because they actually are reliable. In short, they're WORTHY of trust. We've seen it even in the Phoenix playoff series, in such important games, when Kobe would actually try to set up and feed Kwame when Kwame showed some signs of being a capable scorer in the post.

Trusting teammates is a great mantra, but it's absolutely nonsense without qualification. Trusting family is great, unless your cousin is a crackhead.

So are Odom and Walton trustworthy?

The reality is that Bynum's presence on the floor covered up a lot of problems on our team.

For example, Odom inconsistency in scoring, his poor basketball decisions, and his lacking team defense weren't magically corrected in our great start to this season. It was just overshadowed by Bynum stepping into that void. With Bynum, Fish, and Kobe, we had our consistent offense. Odom didn't need to make plays, we had Kobe shifting to guard. Odom didn't need to play great D, Bynum was there protecting the basket. Odom didn't need to score, make key basketball decisions, or play great defense. He didn't need to. The problems didn't go away, just the demands and pressure. Now he's the pressure is on him, and he just showed that he's not reliable. Or did anybody else miss Phil Jackson benching him in Overtime?

Walton is a different story. Walton was off, and he's not the type of player who shoots himself into a nice rhythm. Know your personnel. I don't care if Walton is shooting 39% from three this year, he only takes 1.5 a game. If he's 1-6 from the field in the game, and passing up shots and playing passively, then no, he's not trustworthy. But Walton never was trustworthy to score points - he was always a guy who passed the ball, got his teammates involved, and set up the offense. Walton was a glue guy, except there was nothing to glue that night.

Know your personnel. Kobe knows his teammates. Walton is not a scorer, Kwame is inept in the post, and Odom, after 3 years, has failed to be a reliable and consistent scoring threat. Whether Kobe shoots more or less isn't going to change that. These are individual problems for individual players.

And no matter what happens in the next two months, I have no doubt in my mind that Kobe will go back to playing team ball and quarterbacking the offense. Unless people forgot what happened in the past 8 months.

But for now, the onus is on him to win ballgames. And he's going to dust off the boots, turn on the switch, and unleash the beast.

I'm just glad our team has that luxury.

[Slava]

I'm just glad our team has that luxury.

Perfectly said. The Lakers won't appreciate Kobe Bryant until the day the they have to play without him.

[Deuce33]

The biggest problem I have with this whole "trusting teammates" thing is that they need to actually be worthy of trust.

There is no question that when one player shoots 44 times, that raises a red flag. The easy answer is, just pass more Kobe. Get everybody involved. Everybody involved could be a good thing, if they're actually doing anything, but it could be a bad thing, for example, when everybody is involved on the receiving end of an ass-kicking. Because when Kobe doesn't kick into gear and play deus ex machina when our team needs it, we can get embarrassed pretty quickly.

What I have a problem with is this suggestion that Kobe is some selfish idiot. First of all, he had no problem passing up shots to teammates when/if they were rolling. We've seen it all year. Kobe has no problem passing to Bynum and Fisher. Why? Because they actually are reliable. In short, they're WORTHY of trust. We've seen it even in the Phoenix playoff series, in such important games, when Kobe would actually try to set up and feed Kwame when Kwame showed some signs of being a capable scorer in the post.

Trusting teammates is a great mantra, but it's absolutely nonsense without qualification. Trusting family is great, unless your cousin is a crackhead.

So are Odom and Walton trustworthy?

The reality is that Bynum's presence on the floor covered up a lot of problems on our team.

For example, Odom inconsistency in scoring, his poor basketball decisions, and his lacking team defense weren't magically corrected in our great start to this season. It was just overshadowed by Bynum stepping into that void. With Bynum, Fish, and Kobe, we had our consistent offense. Odom didn't need to make plays, we had Kobe shifting to guard. Odom didn't need to play great D, Bynum was there protecting the basket. Odom didn't need to score, make key basketball decisions, or play great defense. He didn't need to. The problems didn't go away, just the demands and pressure. Now he's the pressure is on him, and he just showed that he's not reliable. Or did anybody else miss Phil Jackson benching him in Overtime?

Walton is a different story. Walton was off, and he's not the type of player who shoots himself into a nice rhythm. Know your personnel. I don't care if Walton is shooting 39% from three this year, he only takes 1.5 a game. If he's 1-6 from the field in the game, and passing up shots and playing passively, then no, he's not trustworthy. But Walton never was trustworthy to score points - he was always a guy who passed the ball, got his teammates involved, and set up the offense. Walton was a glue guy, except there was nothing to glue that night.

Know your personnel. Kobe knows his teammates. Walton is not a scorer, Kwame is inept in the post, and Odom, after 3 years, has failed to be a reliable and consistent scoring threat. Whether Kobe shoots more or less isn't going to change that. These are individual problems for individual players.

And no matter what happens in the next two months, I have no doubt in my mind that Kobe will go back to playing team ball and quarterbacking the offense. Unless people forgot what happened in the past 8 months.

But for now, the onus is on him to win ballgames. And he's going to dust off the boots, turn on the switch, and unleash the beast.

I'm just glad our team has that luxury.

Dude, do you write for some paper or something? Because your REALLY GOOD and spot on. I've really enjoyed reading your posts.

[snaquille oatmeal]

-= original quote snipped =-



Dude, do you write for some paper or something? Because your REALLY GOOD and spot on. I've really enjoyed reading your posts.

he plays guitar and writes songs for T-REX

[Stegasauce]

man, if only we still had mo evans and cook on the team.... instant offense...

[LLcoleJ]

Lebrons 51 lift Cavs to OT win, 132-124

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) -- Now this is the way LeBron James likes to go for half a hundred.

James scored a season-high 51 points, including 25 in the fourth quarter and overtime, to lead the Cleveland Cavaliers to a 132-124 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday night.

Bryant scores 48 as the Lakers hold off the Sonics in overtime 123-121 SEATTLE (AP) -- On their first night without Andrew Bynum, the weary Los Angeles Lakers learned they can beat an inferior team without their flourishing young center.

They hope it doesn't take 48 points and an overtime game-winner from Kobe Bryant every night to survive for the next eight weeks without Bynum.

Name that sports ....center?

[MAMBAEMD]

I'm amazed at how much criticism Kobe gets even when the Lakers win and he made the game winning shot.

I'm always for ball movement and better distribution of shots, but those of you who watched that game saw how poorly Lamar and the rest of the suppoting cast were playing.
Kobe was out there with a very ineffective Luke and Lamar, and only partially effective Ronny and DFish. Don't even talk about getting Kwame involved in the offense because last night he couldn't throw a pea in the ocean, his 2 free throws in OT notwithstanding.

I hope that in the future in Bynum's absence that we move the ball around a lot better and for Kobe to shoot less, but having watched last night, shooting less by him would have probably translated to a loss for us.

Our poblem last night was horrible team and pick&roll defense not Kobe shooting too much.

[nermindee]

Lebrons 51 lift Cavs to OT win, 132-124

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) -- Now this is the way LeBron James likes to go for half a hundred.

James scored a season-high 51 points, including 25 in the fourth quarter and overtime, to lead the Cleveland Cavaliers to a 132-124 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday night.

Bryant scores 48 as the Lakers hold off the Sonics in overtime 123-121 SEATTLE (AP) -- On their first night without Andrew Bynum, the weary Los Angeles Lakers learned they can beat an inferior team without their flourishing young center.

They hope it doesn't take 48 points and an overtime game-winner from Kobe Bryant every night to survive for the next eight weeks without Bynum.

Name that sports ....center?

Yahoo can beat that!

Welcome to the first edition of Yahoo! Sports

[nermindee]

dammit some of you kobe haters came out again... you guys are missing the point of last nights game... kobe had to take that many shots to win cus no one else was playing well... you guys are crying over 1 game! I also agree that in the future kobe shouldnt have to shoot so much, but last night was an exception... so you people that agree kobe shot too much would rather have him shoot less so they could lose last night? a win is a win give kobe credit for being clutch when it mattered cus lamar and luke sure as hell couldnt save a game, bottom line lakers defense sucked ass last night and they got killed on the boards. can you guys blame kobe for collisons career night? pleeeez kobe haters check yerself! like some of you said earlier, some of you fools wont realize kobes value till you lose him. I swear some of you guys sound like the lakers can be number 1 in the west without kobe hahahaha

[SashAlex]

It was a back-to-back game ! They did not have enough time to adjust without Bynum...who's that fool who's saying that ?
A win is a win !

[b shaw20]

No, that's not always the case. In all of my experience watching basketball, teams run the shot clock down to under 10 seconds, then make their move.

You want to take the best shot available in that 10 seconds.

The problem with running the shot clock too far down is:

1. no second chance opportunities

2. friction

By friction, I mean everything that can go wrong. The opponent can suddenly spring a trap. It's much easier to chase and collapse on a guy with 3 seconds left than 10 seconds left. 10 seconds allows a reaction to a defensive play.

You aren't running an offense at the end of the game Miles. He could have taken that shot 3 seconds later. Kobe almost always gets the ball far away from the basket so he can survey the defense and see if a double team is coming. If they were to send a second man early, with all the spacing you leave someone else wide open. Perhaps its just that Kobe just wants to have the last shot no matter what. I guess we can't expect him to manage it like MJ did vs Utah. I don't think that asking for similar clock management from Kobe is asking too much.

Regarding you don't get any 2nd chance opportunity - if you are tied, it doesn't matter. You get a 2nd chance for 5 minutes. The point is that the opponent does not get a chance themselves to outright win it. Control your own destiny as much as possible is all I am saying.

I have seen it several times before where Kobe makes a shot with 3-4 secs left and we wind up giving up a 3 pointer, in essence getting the short end of the deal (making a 2 and giving up 3). There is no excuse for that in my mind. Kobe is too good

On friction - 3 seconds is a lifetime in basketball, especially with Kobe having the ball in his hands since he can elevate and shoot like no one else. Yes, it may be harder to get out of a trap with less time but its very difficult to do that when the spacing is right. And if he's at the top of the key they'd have to leave D Fish or Luke wide ass open and live with the outcome.

I am of the opinion that I want Kobe to have the last shot unless they send the "wolf and the boys" to get the ball out of his hands, but all I am saying is that there is room for him to improve on this issue and pray to God that it does not cause us a major game going forward.


"So pretty please, with sugar on top - clean the fukn car."