PG: Sam is GREAT!! Hamilton too

Tha Cynic · Post #101 » by **Tha Cynic** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:39 am

Darrick Martin wrote:Apparently the sky is falling and guys like Ginobili and Delfino are now considered European.

Whatever. I'm talking style of game, not actual nationality.

And I've held this stance since the beginning of the season, when BC went out and got Kapono and Delfino and did nothing to address our weaknesses. It has nothing to do with them losing or winning one game.

El Presidente · Post #102 » by **El Presidente** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:40 am

A question to put this loss in perspective. Did anybody expect us to win this game coming in? If you answered yes, you've seriously overvalued the Raptors.

What ticks me off isn't that we lost but the way we lost, especially Sam's coaching, our defense (leaving shooters open) and Bargnani's continued poor play. I thought we could've done more to win the game.

eddbot · Post #103 » by **eddbot** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:50 am

I don't know what's funnier, D Mart's missed layup attempt or the Sam's stare-down... I think I'll go with the stare-down. Anyway, Rasheed has proven, time and time again, that he's the certified Bosh-killer.

Anyone catch what Leo said (I believe in the 4th)... i had the volume down kinda a low but did he say something about Sam Mitchell not speaking to Bargs for 3 weeks or something?

El Presidente · Post #104 » by **El Presidente** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:56 am

eddbot wrote:I don't know what's funnier, D Mart's missed layup attempt or the Sam's stare-down... I think I'll go with the stare-down. Anyway, Rasheed has proven, time and time again, that he's the certified Bosh-killer.

Anyone catch what Leo said (I believe in the 4th)... i had the volume down kinda a low but did he say something about Sam Mitchell not speaking to Bargs for 3 weeks or something?

Yup, I think Chuck brought the Sun article up which said Sam didn't talk to Bargnani for three weeks earlier in the season as a sign of tough love. Pretty lame on the part of Sam, he chose to alienate rather than communicate. Not the way tough love works.

Tha Cynic · Post #105 » by **Tha Cynic** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:59 am

El Presidente wrote:Yup, I think Chuck brought the Sun article up which said Sam didn't talk to Bargnani for three weeks earlier in the season as a sign of tough love. Pretty lame on the part of Sam, he chose to alienate rather than communicate. Not the way tough love works.

To be fair, Sam has been trying to communicate with Bargnani for a couple of seasons now. Something must have forced him to take those drastic actions. Apparently Bargnani hasn't been too receptive of the coaching he receives. If a player isn't listening then what else can you do?

Yosemite Dan · Post #106 » by **Yosemite Dan** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:05 am

El Presidente wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yup, I think Chuck brought the Sun article up which said Sam didn't talk to Bargnani for three weeks earlier in the season as a sign of tough love. Pretty lame on the part of Sam, he chose to alienate rather than communicate. Not the way tough love works.

If Bargs had this 'nose up in the air" attitude in regards to simple drills to try and develop some big man skills and, given the demeanor of Bargs it seems entirely possible, then Sam was wrong in giving him the cold shoulder. He should have bitch slapped him until nose came down to earth. Nothing infuriates a coach more than a player who feels he is too good to do the simple things to try and get better and does it half assed.

Let's not get too down on the Raptors, they are just a long list of teams who have fell to the Pistons this year. Alot of other teams have been intimidated. We have beaten the Spurs in their house this year so we are starting to grow a pair of balls. We can't beat every top team this year o n the road.

El Presidente · Post #107 » by **El Presidente** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:15 am

Yosemite and Cynic. Sam has many faults as a coach and Bargnani has even more faults as a player. But no matter how you put it, not talking to somebody for weeks is not going to make things better, regardless of who the player is. It's immature on the part of Sam to deploy this kind of strategy.

Post #108 » by **Shaazzam** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:24 am

Some tired comments on the game

Guard play, guard play, guard play.

I've said it many times, we need TJ to really compete against the top teams.

Jose showed what a guard could do when they were able to attack when the score was about 20-12. But he can't break down top tier defensive teams, not for extended minutes.

LOts of guys played poorly, but we can't beat Detroit, because we are trying to out execute teams. And we can't out execute them, and we can't beat them on talent.

TJ is our second most talented player, and is by far the most dynamic. We need that pure talent ot be succesful against the best teams, or we need to upgrade somewhere else, like the two, to help for Jose. Hell we need Jose to help out TJ and vise versa, so I don't mean to hate on him, but we need more talent at the guard spots.

Yosemite Dan · Post #109 » by **Yosemite Dan** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:27 am

Shaazzam wrote:Some tired comments on the game

Guard play, guard play, guard play.

I've said it many times, we need TJ to really compete against the top teams.

Jose showed what a guard could do when they were able to attack when the score was about 20-12. But he can't break down top tier defensive teams, not for extended minutes.

LOts of guys played poorly, but we can't beat Detroit, because we are trying to out execute teams. And we can't out execute them, and we can't beat them on talent.

TJ is our second most talented player, and is by far the most dynamic. We need that pure talent ot be succesful against the best teams, or we need to upgrade somewhere else, like the two, to help for Jose. Hell we need Jose to help out TJ and vise versa, so I don't mean to hate on him, but we need more talent at the guard spots.

Well then BC better find a serviceable back up slashing PG to Jose because the odds of Ford lasting even another 2 years is not good unless he gets some kind of bionic spine implanted.

Death Knight · Post #110 » by **Death Knight** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:40 am

El Presidente wrote:A question to put this loss in perspective. Did anybody expect us to win this game coming in? If you answered yes, you've seriously overvalued the Raptors.

What ticks me off isn't that we lost but the way we lost, especially Sam's coaching, our defense (leaving shooters open) and Bargnani's continued poor play. I thought we could've done more to win the game.

That's what I'm all about most of the time. How they lose games rather than the fact that they just loss. The "how" is very important for me.

Death Knight · Post #111 » by **Death Knight** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:51 am

Speaking of tough love, not everyone can handle tough love. IMO, I don't really think Bargnani knows what tough love is or why Sam wasn't talking to him. Bargnani looks like a guy that needs to be pampered, which shouldn't be a surprise, as he is as soft as a pillow. Not good.........

We can talk about this team missing TJ Ford or Garbajosa, but the truth of the matter is that Bargnani is the key to the Raptors becoming an elite team. This team can have Chris Paul on the floor and it wouldn't matter if Bargnani plays mr. invisible out on the court...the Raptors would be playing 4-5. Bargnani needs to start playing better or mediocrity will be a norm for the Raptors for many years to come.

Post #112 » by **Shaazzam** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:54 am

Death Knight wrote:Speaking of tough love, not everyone can handle tough love. IMO, I don't really think Bargnani knows what tough love is or why Sam wasn't talking to him. Bargnani looks like a guy that needs to be pampered, which shouldn't be a surprise, as he is as soft as a pillow. Not good.........

We can talk about this team missing TJ Ford or Garbajosa, but the truth of the matter is that Bargnani is the key to the Raptors becoming an elite team. This team can have Chris Paul on the floor and it wouldn't matter if Bargnani plays mr. invisible out on the court...the Raptors would be playing 4-5. Bargnani needs to start playing better or mediocrity will be a norm for the Raptors for many years to come.

If you don't have decent guard play, it doesn't matter how good your bigs are, because the defence can sag on them, or in Bargs's place, smother him.

He needs the space created by penetration.

Buyaka · Post #113 » by **Buyaka** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:22 am

Darrick Martin wrote:Is anyone really surprised or upset that we lost? The game was pretty much a mirror image of the first game and the score also confirms this.

This also foreshadows the fact that winning a round in playoffs as a jump shooting team with flawed D is an uphill battle.

rdtx2005 · Post #114 » by **rdtx2005** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:49 am

El Presidente wrote:What ticks me off isn't that we lost but the way we lost, especially Sam's coaching, our defense (leaving shooters open) and Bargnani's continued poor play. I thought we could've done more to win the game.

no **** Einstein.. but I don't think you should be pissed about the coaching. other than the players playing like a bunch of idiots with a butterfingers the first few minutes of the 3rd quarter.. there wasn't much Sam could have done after the team unraveled

rdtx2005 · Post #115 » by **rdtx2005** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:50 am

KingClutch wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

...because that one free throw we should've had would have changed the entire game

we would have been tied going into the half on a high note.....

:wavefinger:

rdtx2005 · Post #116 » by **rdtx2005** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:52 am

El Presidente wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I believe Calderon/Delfino/Parker got us back within 1 at the end of the second quarter. Are you saying we shouldn't even give those player a chance to make another run?

the starting five miraculously turned the ball over 3 straight possessions which led to 6 pts from Rip Hamilton..

are you saying we should give this group of 5 more time to 'work things out'?

beau · Post #117 » by **beau** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:44 pm

Is Alvin Williams' 4.5 million dollars contract tradeable?

fabste · Post #118 » by **fabste** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:48 pm

fire smitch, hire ettore messina and win the **** ring
max 3 year, without upgrade.

Post #119 » by **Shaazzam** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Jose: 3-7 FG 5 Ast 3 Reb 3 TO 8 Pts
AP: 5-11 FG 0 Ast 3 Reb 2 TO 10 Pts

Billups: 5-9 FG 4 Ast 3 Reb 2 TO 20 Pts
Rip: 16-22 F 6 Ast 4 Reb 0 TO 39 Pts

Death Knight · Post #120 » by **Death Knight** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:40 pm

Shaazzam wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

If you don't have decent guard play, it doesn't matter how good your bigs are, because the defence can sag on them, or in Bargs's place, smother him.

He needs the space created by penetration.

We are talking about the Raptors. TJ and Jose are already pretty good. We know what guys like TJ, Jose, and Bosh are going to bring to the table. The only one that hasn't brought it is Bargnani. So if you talk about guard play, TJ and Jose can continue to do their thing, but until Bargnani improves, develops and starts playing better, this team can't take the next step.

Wouldn't you agree that Bargnani has the most improving to do out of all the Raptors' players? Truth is, Bargnani is the key for the Raptors make the jump to elite level. You can't tell me that the Raptors can just waste a number one pick and still be able to take it to the next level.

Guard play has always been consistent for this team. Even going back to last season, they were pretty consistent all season long. But the Raptors didn't start to make their second half run until Bargnani started to play better.