It's time to watch Paxson, not blame him.

[cavsfan_osiris]

Paxson has to accept a ton of blame for this poor Chicago season. There was a lot of young talented players with reasonable contracts, they needed to make that deal while their stock value was high.

With how the team flamed out against Detroit there was zero doubt the Bulls needed to make a move. For whatever reason he failed to get it done, now there are awkward contract situations and ill feelings.

Paxon is responsible for player personnel, managing the roster and keeping watch on the pulse/attitude/morale of the team. He has turned a good situation into a disaster and failed on all levels. There is no way Paxson can sell to anyone that he's done a good job with this situation.

He's not playing on the court. The players have to accept their role, but he has also has to accept responsibility for his front office role in this horrible situation.

[DuckIII]

The bottom line is that this org has to flat-out nut up when it comes to Wallace. He is a spot bench guy AT BEST right now. And if he's not willing to accept that role, the org has to be prepared to Tim Thomas or Jalen Rose him.

Wallace is a douche, sure. But Pax is the GM, and he has not has his finger on the pulse of this particular issue.

I think this has too many characters to be turned into a sig, but it is sig-worthy. It is positively spot-on.

My criticisms of Paxson remain few in number.

But this one absolutely nails my big beef perfectly. And its not a hindsight thing either. Its not a "Wallace was a mistake" beef or "Brewer is better than Thabo" complaint. Its based on what we can all see is happening right now. The problem is before us and solutions are available that don't require the cooperation of another team.

The organization simply has to grow a pair and implement those solutions, no matter how painful or embarrassing it may appear. Its the only thing to be done.

As doug notes, lots of things can't really be done right now in a way that is best for this team. But this isn't one of them. This is something that can be addressed tonight.

I gave Wallace a clean slate when Boylan took over, and he produced fairly well and played with enthusiasm for a little while. And while he was performing like that - so long as he performed like that - I advocated keeping him out there as the starter logging 33+ minutes. But the reversion is here. Hell, the revulsion is here. Now its time to do something about it.

And that most certainly is on Pax.

[Shootdabull]

Paxson has to accept a ton of blame for this poor Chicago season. There was a lot of young talented players with reasonable contracts, they needed to make that deal while their stock value was high.

Pax does have to take the blame, but he has done well in the past. Those young talented players with reasonable contracts are still there. We added the smith deals and noc deal this year which I feel are good contracts. This is Pax first crises situation and we need to see how he handles it. Firing a guy on christmas eve I think was a crappy move. They could have waited until after the spurs game, since the didn't want boylan to start out with a L. I would have thought Deng, Gordon & TT stock would have gone up this year as they are playing for contracts so i thought that was a logical gamble - I would have to think these guys still would have a lot of teams interested if they were made available. I'm willing to see what Pax does to fix this - only time will tell if it is the right move.

[waffle]

Or more like Chris Webber him "here's 40 extra large, git goin". Then he could sign somewhere he reallllly likes....

At this point I want to see as much of TT/Thabo/Gray/Noah as I can stomach. And I am well known for having an iron gut.

[bagsboy]

As I have been saying for two years, PAX MUST GO.
It is a bunch of crap that nobody saw a problem with this team.

[dougthonus]

Why shouldn't we blame Paxson? Is the strategy of getting all hard workers and overachievers proven and unblamable? Or was it bound to flame out sooner or later?

I blame Pax for Wallace. I blame Pax for losing Chandler for squat. I blame him for putting a roster together than has too many tweeners. I blame for valuing the players too high. I blame him not anticipating these problems. I blame him for not overpaying on a trade to get value. I blame him for taking TT is he was not going to create an envirnoment where he can grow. I blame him for this pathetic interim coach.

I agree with all these points (to some extent at least).

My point is that I don't blame him for our current bad play and current record.

There are problems with this team that aren't related to the record (like the ones you mentioned). He made several bad moves (Wallace signing, TT/Thabo draft, Chandler trade), and for those things he's at fault (though I don't expect my GM to be perfect on every trade). While those moves are partially responsible for why we are where we are, going into this season we expected to be much better. I won't blame him for not being desperate to shake up a team that most people figured would win 50+ games just for the sake of change.

That's the point of my thread.

Maybe I should rephrase it a bit. Paxson is at fault for his mistakes, and deserves to take blame for those. Paxson's not at fault for young veteran players drastically under performing their previous shown ability level. Our record is a result of the latter and not the former.

[DuckIII]

As I have been saying for two years, PAX MUST GO.

That would be a terrible mistake. And its just wishful thinking on your part anyway. Jerry's not going to fire him.

What might happen, indeed what I think very well could happen, is that Paxson will resign. Which will make a lot of people happy. Until the new GM starts making moves that don't work out to prompt perfection.

[bagsboy]

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That would be a terrible mistake. And its just wishful thinking on your part anyway. Jerry's not going to fire him.

What might happen, indeed what I think very well could happen, is that Paxson will resign. Which will make a lot of people happy. Until the new GM starts making moves that don't work out to prompt perfection.

We are a long way from perfection. What the team needs is a competent GM who could sign, draft or trade for points down low in something less than three years.

[SherronShabazz]

"You said it perfect." -The Iron Sheik

perfect post. 100% accurate.

[cavsfan_osiris]

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Pax does have to take the blame, but he has done well in the past. Those young talented players with reasonable contracts are still there. We added the smith deals and noc deal this year which I feel are good contracts. This is Pax first crises situation and we need to see how he handles it. Firing a guy on christmas eve I think was a crappy move. They could have waited until after the spurs game, since the didn't want boylan to start out with a L. I would have thought Deng, Gordon & TT stock would have gone up this year as they are playing for contracts so i thought that was a logical gamble - I would have to think these guys still would have a lot of teams interested if they were made available. I'm willing to see what Pax does to fix this - only time will tell if it is the right move.

The stock value of all the Bulls players has significantly decreased.

[Shootdabull]

[quote="Shootdabull
The stock value of all the Bulls players has significantly decreased.

We may have some players where it has significantly decreased such as big ben, but I don't think that is the case overall. Lets face it no one was offering us star players for one of guys before the year started. Memphis wanted gordon & deng for Pau - I bet we could still make that deal if we wanted. With everyone having a down year I would expect all of there stock to drop. That said I still believe these guys are tradeable with the exception of Ben. I also don't think the whole team needs to be gutted we did win 49 games last year. Pax needs to come up with a way to make it work again.

[kyrv]

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We are a long way from perfection. What the team needs is a competent GM who could sign, draft or trade for points down low in something less than three years.

So the new GM trades Luol/Gordon/Noah to the Knicks for Randolph.

Everybody is upset. But not you - we have points down low?

[cavsfan_osiris]

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We may have some players where it has significantly decreased such as big ben, but I don't think that is the case overall. Lets face it no one was offering us star players for one of guys before the year started. Memphis wanted gordon & deng for Pau - I bet we could still make that deal if we wanted. With everyone having a down year I would expect all of there stock to drop. That said I still believe these guys are tradeable with the exception of Ben. I also don't think the whole team needs to be gutted we did win 49 games last year. Pax needs to come up with a way to make it work again.

The stock value of almost every single Bulls player has significantly decreased. There is no way the Bulls can get the same type of players today in return for any combination of their best players that they could have gotten this past offseason or last season.

Paxson should have made a move, for whatever reason didn't and now the team stands where they do now with respect to player personnel, a mess.

Paxson has done a great job up until this offseason. He's ruined much of the hard work he did and now has to find a way to salvage this situation.

[kyrv]

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The stock value of almost every single Bulls player has significantly decreased. There is no way the Bulls can get the same type of players today in return for any combination of their best players that they could have gotten this past offseason or last season.

Paxson should have made a move, for whatever reason didn't and now the team stands where they do now with respect to player personnel, a mess.

Paxson has done a great job up until this offseason. He's ruined much of the hard work he did and now has to find a way to salvage this situation.

What move?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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The stock value of almost every single Bulls player has significantly decreased. There is no way the Bulls can get the same type of players today in return for any combination of their best players that they could have gotten this offseason.

Paxson should have made a move, for whatever reason didn't and now the team stands where they do now with respect to player personnel, a mess.

Paxson has done a great job up until this offseason. He's ruined much of the hard work he did and now has to find a way to salvage this situation.

Thats patently false. How has Dengs value decreased since this same time last season? Or Nocioni? Or TT?

Dengs numbers are almost identical, and all while battling through injury - and lets not forget he is only 22yrs old. 1 year younger than the phenom himself.

Nocioni is also posting very similar numbers to last year - his problem is that he is BYC.

Players value doesn't rise and fall as dramatically as the stock market. GM's know what players have done in the past, and they don't write a player off because of a bad month.


What move should Pax have made?

[bagsboy]

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So the new GM trades Luol/Gordon/Noah to the Knicks for Randolph.

Everybody is upset. But not you - we have points down low?

Do you know what competent means?
Note: I have not attacked other posters and expect the same treatment.

[babblin-on]

Is ERob/Tim Thomasing Wallace a viable option for Pax?

In the case of Tim Thomas, it was easier to justify because ultimately that year of big salary was going to be on the books regardless, dating back to prior to Pax having the job(Jalen Rose trade). Erob also was a situation where the mistake of bringing the guy to Chicago wasn't on Pax.

I have my doubts about whether or not a meeting where Pax tells Reinsdorf basically "I screwed up giving that huge deal to Wallace and now I need you to pay him $40+M to not play for us" ends with Pax still having his job.

[Addicted123]

A well thought out logical post that I can't disagree with. Nice job Doug.

It's a well thought out logical post that I completely disagree with.

The difference between winning and losing is not that big in the NBA. Just with the signing of Ben Wallace, Paxson created an incredibly terrible team dynamic. This year is Paxson's fault.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

It's a well thought out logical post that I completely disagree with.

What can I say - I'm shocked?

[JeffJordan]

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What move?

What move???

Give me a break Paxson could have easily made a deal had he wanted to. With all of the pieces he had I am sure there were TONS of phone calls to Pax. Keep being a Paxson apologist though, it adds humor to this forum.