Small Forward Question

[roc]

^And probably about as likely as Artest to land in Detroit.

For the exact opposite reasons but yep.

[roc]

^Well, we arent getting one of those.

I think Marvin could be had but not the other 3(well with how crappy the Bulls are doing maybe Deng but we don't have the kind of player Chicago would want for him).

[#1stunna]

Agree with what you say hunter except for maybe artest being a black hole offensively. Maybe I overvalue him on the O-side but I see him as a guy that can do a little bit of everything just like tay can. Tay might take smarter/better timing shots but atleast artest doesnt disappear for games. Unless the nutcase is suspended

Tays usually what, our 3rd,4th, sometimes 5th option on offense. If artest played as a role player & only took high% shots I see no letdown. This is all fantasy talk anyways, no way artest would be trusted.

[Manocad]

Chelios might have been hated, but he was never as destructive to his team as Artest has been, and (correct me if I'm wrong on this one) I don't remember Chely ever beating his wife or abusing animals.

You are correct. Not to get too tangential here, but using Chelios is a horrible analogy. Like Brett Hull, you hated him because he always seemed to beat you, not because of who he was as an individual. I don't think there's a true Red Wings fan alive that didn't go "What? We got who? Holy crap--that's awesome!" when Chelios (and Hull, for that matter) joined the Wings.

[Snakebites]

I saw another interesting thing, forget where it was, but it does even more to underscore how big a cancer Artest is.

A few people who's job it is to analyze these things looked at Ron Artest in situations in which a play is called, and he nearly always ignores the play called and goes wherever he feels like going.

What to disrupt the team's offensive harmony? There is NO better way to do it than to add Ron Artest. Even without his history here there is more than enough reasons not to want the guy here. EVER.

[#1stunna]

If artest helped us bring our 4th title home.... I bet his past would be forgiven by most. "artest just needed to grow up" he just needed to find a organization that trust & respects him" & so on.

Who wanted the lazy, pot smokin, disrespectful, tech record breakin, felony just waiting to happen(at a club) 2003 Sheed. The man came here, cleaned up his act, won us a title, & now most is forgiven & for some a favorite. Artest no doubt is worst than younger sheed but at the time we got him he had a very bad rep.

[Snakebites]

If artest helped us bring our 4th title home.... I bet his past would be forgiven by most. "artest just needed to grow up" he just needed to find a organization that trust & respects him" & so on.

Who wanted the lazy, pot smokin, disrespectful, tech record breakin, felony just waiting to happen(at a club) 2003 Sheed. The man came here, cleaned up his act, won us a title, & now most is forgiven & for some a favorite. Artest no doubt is worst than younger sheed but at the time we got him he had a very bad rep.

Of course he would be forgiven if that happened. That if isnt surmountable, though.

And Rasheed is a horrible example as well. He had some issues on and off the court, but by all accounts got an unjustly bad rap as a teamate. He complained about calls and had some trouble off the court, but nothing compared to Artest's problems. Those run far deeper than that, and if you dont see the distinction then I cant help you.

[Hunter]

If artest helped us bring our 4th title home.... I bet his past would be forgiven by most. "artest just needed to grow up" he just needed to find a organization that trust & respects him" & so on.

Who wanted the lazy, pot smokin, disrespectful, tech record breakin, felony just waiting to happen(at a club) 2003 Sheed. The man came here, cleaned up his act, won us a title, & now most is forgiven & for some a favorite. Artest no doubt is worst than younger sheed but at the time we got him he had a very bad rep.

Again, it's a bad comparison.

I for one was all on board with the Sheed acquisition from the very beginning. His problems have almost always been with the media and with the refs. He's always been a great teammate, and techs aside, hasn't done anything truly horrible. So he got busted for smokin' a lil pot, big whoop.

Artest on the other hand absolutely ruined the Pacers. Don't forget it was him losing his head and taking a flagrant foul on Rip in the ECF that essentially sealed our series victory in '04. And let's not forget the dude asked for time off to promote his rap album. And then after all the crap he did (including the brawl, which obviously ruined yet another Pacer season) the dude decided he didn't wanna play there anymore -despite the Pacers sticking by him the entire time. Then he goes to Sacramento, gets in trouble for spousal abuse and for neglecting his dog.

Sheed has NEVER been the sort of cancer that Artest is. Not even close. There are times I'd wish would just shut the hell up, but not for one minute have I ever felt like we'd be better off without the guy. There is no question in my mind we're better off without Artest.

[#1stunna]

Chill out buddy. This became a what if conversation. What if artest became a good teammate & helped us get another ship. His past would be forgive by most. Thats all I'm saying.

And 2003 sheed is almost as close as a example you could get(a negative player/person). He was seen as a cancer with attitude & respect towards the nba & officials. Theres was a few worst out there but not many. See how winning makes you forget all that

For the record. I have no problem with sheed. When he comes to play for real hes 1 of my favorite bball players to watch.

edit: he broke the law also. Even though its a outdated law, its still a law. & hes seen(& still is) as a player that only shows up for big games. Being a pro you shouldnt take off many games. Also when he was younger he wasn't afraid of the party scene to speak nicely of it.I dont remember him ever getting into trouble though.

[Low-Ki]

No chance in hell. Davidson would never allow it forst of all and it would be TERRIBLE PR if Davidson was preoccupied and Joe Dumars went off the deep end and decided to bring him in.

Ruben Patterson would be a solid back-up, however the PR hit for bringing in a registered sex offender blocks that from ever happening.

Marion is too expensive, Crash and Josh Howard are not available (unless we make an offer they can't refuse and then they would fall under too expensive), Maggette has a low BBIQ and would have a helluva time picking up Flips systems.

I'd love Marvin Williams, don't know if Josh Childress would be much of an improvement in the "happy to be fifth option" category. I just don't think we'd have anything (reasonably available) that Atlanta would want.

I think we're stuck with him.

[bstein14]

You know who I like and possibly would be available is Nocioni from the Bulls.

He makes alot of money, and Chicago is going to be forced to up # for Deng and Gordon this summer if they want to keep them.

Nocioni is a bigger 3 who can also play as an undersized 4. He's hustle, and works hard, can play defense, and hit the open jumper.

He is making almost as much as Prince, and is signed for 5 more seasons.

Which brings his trade value down, and is another reason that makes Chicago willing to trade him more realistic.

[Hunter]

^Nocioni is somebody I've mentioned before myself. I like him a lot. I actually call him Mini-Lamb because he's exactly the player I reckon Laimbeer would have been if he were a few inches shorter.

[#1stunna]

tay makes 9.5,10.3, & 11.1

noc makes 37.5 over the next 5. Couldn't figure out how its structured.

With all the expirings & maybe 3-4 million saved from noc would we have enough to pick up a decent fa?

[Snakebites]

Ive been a big Nocioni fan since his rookie season. He seemed like the scrappy hustle type of player that would be great on the Pistons.

Would be tough to get him, though. He's not untouchable, but he's one of the only guys theyve got still playing at the level he was at last season, and we are in the same division as they are. They dont have much incentive to deal him for Tay. They have Deng, IMO a better version of Tay, who is also due big payday.

Cant hurt to dream, though. And no capspace we could conceivably get would be more than the MLE we'd get regardless of our cap situation.

[Hunter]

^Yeah. You'd probably have to find some way to turn Tay into a PF, with a bit of a post-game. Not necessarily a guy the caliber of Pau or JO, but somebody decent enough to start and get then 14 & 8, or so.

[stones88]

Perhaps aiming for Marion was aiming a little high, I guess I didn't realize his value was so high(they really wanted Sheed, Tay, and both our first! wow, just wow). This Nocioni idea sounds good though. I like him for the same reasons stated above.

Apparently Chicago is looking to trade Tyrus and they're talking with Memphis about Gasol. Maybe we could get in there as a third team sending Prince to Memphis(do they need a do it all but not all the time SF) and get Nocioni in return.

[nasty daddy]

Nocioni = Herrmann.

[roc]

Memphis is set at the 3 with both Gay and Miller, don't see why they would trade for Prince.

I am not a Nocioni fan, he hustles sure but he just is not a top notch SF/PF. Tay >>> Noc and Tay <= Deng. Deng can't really create for himself or shoot the 3 ball but he does get to the rim pretty well when motivated.

[Hunter]

Nocioni = Herrmann.

Put down the pipe and back away slowly...

[Snakebites]

Nocioni = Herrmann.

We all love ya nasty but .

Luckily we dont get many Bulls fans around here, or this one liner would be populating sigs in no time.