Would you do this deal with Detroit?

Post #1 » by **roc** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:00 am

I posted this on the trade board a bit back and posted it in the Flip thread here. I got only 2 replies from ATL fans, 1 of whom would like to keep Marvin but wouldn't be upset if a deal like this happened. The other liked it. I wanted some more input from you guys to see if this is a fair deal.

Tay/Hayes/Murray for Marvin/Chill/Speedy

Tay is still young but has a ton of playoff experience and has a reasonable contract, Hayes is pretty good off the bench (he is putting up the same numbers per minute as Marvin FWIW) and has a super cheap contract(expiring), Murray is an expiring as well and could play some minutes at the 1 or 2 if needed.

Marvin and Chill are good young players but both will be getting new deals soon (Marvin's should cost a chunk) and Speedy...
I think a playoff tested and unselfish vet like Tay could be useful to this team and it's playoff aspirations but would ATL do it?

Thoughts?

Does a pick need to be added? Is it fair as is? or No way in hell?

HoopsGuru25 · Post #2 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:04 am

I like Prince and i really like his contract but I wouldn't do that....can't speak for every one else.

High 5 · Post #3 » by **High 5** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:19 am

I'm also a big fan of Prince (and dread playing him), but Marvin and Chill? Hayes is a Georgia boy, but Marvin and Chill are both much better in my opinion. Murray ends up hated wherever he goes.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #4 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:41 am

i said i liked it but id be reluctant to give up a 21 year old 6-9 SF

evildallas · Post #5 » by **evildallas** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:45 am

I like Prince and don't think it is a horrible offer. It gives us some extra flexibility in the off season because Murray and Hayes are expiring deals. However we could essentially renounce Childress and have almost the same cap room. That makes it basically Prince for Marvin. Marvin is 6 years younger while Prince is a better 3 pt shooter and defender. Since Speedy comes off the books before we'd have to absolutely deal with an extension for Marvin I can't see it as a good long term move.

Realistically the trade wouldn't occur with BK still in power. As Marvin is the guy he selected over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, Marvin has to either break out as a star or be part of a trade for a "Superstar" for him to save face. Tayshaun is an excellent player, but isn't a "Superstar".

JoshB914 · Post #6 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:58 am

Hell yes I would do that.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #7 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:18 am

JoshB914 wrote:Hell yes I would do that.

Prince doesn't fill any major holes though. If you add in the fact that he's already like 6 years older than Marvin...it makes the trade an even bigger gamble.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #8 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:44 am

^ how bout a shooter? i dont think we have any lock down defenders either. sign someone with high energy in the offseason to replace chill

reazun · Post #9 » by **reazun** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:57 am

thats hard, I wouldnt do it, but if it happened then I wouldnt be mad. Tayshaun is a great player and I would love to see him in Atlanta. but Marvin is still young, Chillz brings so much energy too, that deal might bite us in the end. I think JJ would be happy to have another vet though. Now that I think about it, yeah Id probably do it, because Tayshaun would bring the energy we lose from giving up Chill plus he brings experience, plus we get rid of Speedy's contract.

Post #10 » by **roc** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:08 am

I feel you guys on the iffiness/gamble factor. The fact that it is hard to decide is what a fair deal is all about. It is a gamble for both teams no doubt but it may actually be a bigger one for Detroit due to their championship aspirations and overall great team chemistry.

I like it for both teams though as it gives each team something they could benefit from either now or down the road.

Post #11 » by **dms269** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:10 am

The problem is we are trading both of them to not fill a hole. if we do trade Marvin/Chill, I would hope it would be to bring in a pg or a center, not another sf.

JoshB914 · Post #12 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:08 am

We trade Marvin for Prince and upgrade big time at SF. Especially on defense and perimeter shooting. Marvin may be younger but Prince is just 27 and probably primed for at least four more years playing at a level Marvin may never play at.

dominique21 · Post #13 » by **dominique21** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:34 am

Hell no......Marvin and Chills>Prince

Post #14 » by **roc** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:22 am

evildallas wrote:Realistically the trade wouldn't occur with BK still in power. As Marvin is the guy he selected over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, Marvin has to either break out as a star or be part of a trade for a "Superstar" for him to save face. Tayshaun is an excellent player, but isn't a "Superstar".

We had a similair but even worse situation (although our team won a title so it didn't sting as much as it really should but it does sting none the less) with Darko. Joe D bit the bullet and traded him for a draft pick that ended up being Rodney Stuckey. If Stuckey works out and we stay at the top for a few more years then all is good and Darko is forgotten.

Marvin has already shown a lot more than Darko so at least BK has that going for him.

In the end it doesn't matter whether or not he gets a superstar for Marvin as much as it matters that he creates a team that can get to the playoffs and have a reasonable chance at the title. If he can do that then people won't care as much that Paul and Deron were passed over. I am not saying Tay will do that for ATL just that he adds a dimension to the team that is lacking and gets them one step closer. You still need another C and a legit PG to get over the final hump. Of course Horford and Law may develop into those players for you at which point backups for them would be all that is needed. Time will tell but I like your team a lot, hell I picked them to win the SE at the beginning of the season if that tells you anything.

JoshB914 · Post #15 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:33 am

dominique21 wrote:Hell no......Marvin and Chills>Prince

No.

Skyhawk1 · Post #16 » by **Skyhawk1** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:48 am

I would not do that trade. Marvin is only going to get better. He can be the 2nd option on our team. The guy is very young and just needs time and confidence.

High 5 · Post #17 » by **High 5** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:27 pm

[quote="r0cd0gg"][/quote]

Like you say, we have other more important areas and if we're going to part with good pieces like Marvin and Chill it would be to upgrade an area that needs upgrading.

conleyorbust · Post #18 » by **conleyorbust** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:03 pm

If I did it, it would be a salary inspired move. Tay is a better overall player than Marv - great perimeter defender, solid 3 point shooter, doesn't turn it over. With regards to the Hawks though, our defense at the wings isn't a problem and Marv is above average in that capacity. Marv doesn't have as much range to his shot but he is a far more dangerous offensive player because of his ability to get to the line. Since the Hawks need offense more than defense, I say no from a personnel perspective but you can never tell if BK would do something like this to get rid of Speedy's contract.

Post #19 » by **roc** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:02 pm

conleyorbust wrote:If I did it, it would be a salary inspired move. Tay is a better overall player than Marv - great perimeter defender, solid 3 point shooter, doesn't turn it over. With regards to the Hawks though, our defense at the wings isn't a problem and Marv is above average in that capacity. Marv doesn't have as much range to his shot but he is a far more dangerous offensive player because of his ability to get to the line. Since the Hawks need offense more than defense, I say no from a personnel perspective but you can never tell if BK would do something like this to get rid of Speedy's contract.

I think Tay's offensive numbers would go up in Atlanta as he is anywhere from the 3rd to 5th option depending on how Sheed or Dice's shots are falling. When Rip is out of the lineup and Tay becomes the 2nd/1st option his scoring numbers jump significantly. He can post up and get inside for scores pretty good to but doesn't get to the line like Marvin on a consistent basis.

As far as monetary savings go this deal does that but could also be tweaked to get ATL another $4 mil + in savings by adding Brezec/Herrmann for Zaza if Dumars really really wanted Marv/Chill and BK really really wanted extra savings to go through with the deal.

I do think it is fair as is but as stated in the OP more sweetner could be added if need be either in the just mentioned extra savings scenario or via a draft pick.

FWIW I am not fond of Murray as a backup PG but when he starts or gets a lot of minutes he plays a lot more like a proper PG and can get to the hoop pretty easily. He absolutely destroyed Nash (6 steals, over 20 points and a fair amount of dimes) when he had to play most of the game because of an injury to Billups. Not saying he could do that on a consistent basis just that if the situation is right for him he can explode. He may actually be a pleasant suprise for you guys just like Nazr has been for the Bobcats. Our team is deep and balanced so it is harder to judge the players solely on stats (not saying that any player should be judged that way because they shouldn't be).

anyway...

Rod700 · Post #20 » by **Rod700** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:49 pm

I'm torn on this one. Prince is great all around and really seems to know how to adjust his game unselfishly to play in a team dynamic. Yet, while I wouldn't be too distraught over losing Chill, especially to get out from under Speedy's contract, I would still hate to lose Marvin at such a young age after so much investment. In the end though, Prince is the perfect team player, and I would lean towards pulling the trigger on this deal. I would try to exchange a second round pick for a first rounder though to sweeten the deal for us. All of this may be moot though considering that I don't think Detriot would do this trade this year. Granted they are getting older, but they are second in the East right now and they've beaten the Celtics earlier in the year. It's just not quite time to rebuild that team yet.