The Best Fit Next To Bynum

[Kweli]

^ and you're overrating Ben Wallace's real impact on the game. Reading your previous posts you're comparing him to Tim Duncan/David Robinson, and Rodman????

Ben Wallace is no longer underrated, or a glue guy anymore. What exactly has he done in Chicago that would classify him as a glue guy?

Since being in Chicago his defense and leadership skills have taken a big hit. He is past his prime, and not as good as Jermaine Oneal.

Is Ben Wallace even as good as Oneal on the defensive end anymore?

-= original quote snipped =-
Then tell David Robinson and Tim Duncan they are dumb for winning the title back in 99'. Then tell Phil Jackson that his triangle offfense is stupid because they don't play real positions but they play real roles.

Bynum is not Tim Duncan and Wallace is not David Robinson.

-= original quote snipped =-

I have proved why Ben Wallace is the better fit while proving that JO is not. You can have these chumps votes because all they look at are stats especially the PPG section. This is not fantasy Bball.

You haven't proven anything besides coming in here, calling everybody chumps and blaming them for looking at RECENT stats, while you're trying to base your argument on how well Ben Wallace played 4 YEARS AGO in the finals.

-= original quote snipped =-
If JO was for 10M, then NP, but since its 20M, no way.

Ok....wait a minute. Are you saying Ben Wallace is a better fit than JO because of the way he plays? Because here it sounds like the amount of money JO makes is your issue. Now you're just contradicting yourself.

[trippy]

If you're going to source my info, don't twist it. Youthinkursogood said I'd rather have 2 Centers, and I justified it by using Duncan/Robinson as they have made it possible. Duncan/Robinson were defensive oriented, and I'm using that as my main point since offense is not the problem.

The lack a offensive post player like Bynum and their Luol Deng is no Kobe Bryant. Ben has proved to maximize his effect with a 1st scoring Option Player and an offensive post player. He won a championship in 04, then NBA Finals 05, and then ECF in 06. Detroit losing to the Cavs last year showed the defensive absence they lacked to stop LBJ.

The whole Chicago issue. As I said already, they don't have an offensive post player, a player of Kobe's magnitude, or a genius of a coach named Phil Jackson. Ben was surely an upgrade for them as they reached the next step in the 07 Playoffs compared to the year before. This year magnified what the Bulls needed, and they're already making changes. At the same time, they see that they can not utilize all of Ben's strengths due to the fact that they lack an offensive post player once again.

Kobe+Bynum does not = Kobe+Shaq, but Kobe+Bynum = contenders as they have shown this year, and we all know that he's only going to get better even though the injury will stall his development for the time being. The title of this thread which player would be a better fit. I have chosen Ben Wallace, and you may agree or you may not. I may be right or I may be wrong.

In terms of argument and debate, I have successfully explained so. If this debate will continue, then I am still waiting for a complete analysis of why JO is the better choice without any assumptions.

Lastly, what we trade for Ben versus what we trade for JO is very different.
Kwame + Luke or Vlad + 2nd pick for Ben.
Kwame + Odom + 1st pick for JO.
We keep some of our depth, versatility, and trade assets. Maybe you heard of the saying "Your trash might be someone else's treasure". That's what this is. Our trash is their treasure, as they want to get rid of Ben's contract while taking an expiring while we get who I think is a perfect fit.

That's my case. Respond accordingly or don't respond at all.

[Kweli]

Ben has proved to maximize his effect with a 1st scoring Option Player and an offensive post player.

Ben has proved to maximize his effect with a younger age.

Since Ben is completely irrelevant on the offensive end how would playing with a good scoring option and an offensive post player affect his defense and rebounding?

Are you saying Wallace would play better defense in LA than he currently is in Chicago because of what Kobe and Bynum can do on the offensive end? That makes no sense.

[trippy]

-= original quote snipped =-



Ben has proved to maximize his effect with a younger age.

Since Ben is completely irrelevant on the offensive end how would playing with a good scoring option and an offensive post player affect his defense and rebounding?

Are you saying Wallace would play better defense in LA than he currently is in Chicago because of what Kobe and Bynum can do on the offensive end? That makes no sense.

It called the intangibles. He does what the team truly needs/lacks such as defense, intensity, and intimidation. That's what Ben Wallace is and he is currently the best at it even though you may say he is declining.. If you're not going to read in complete what I have stated but continue to make such gestures as "That makes no sense", then I rather not respond. Leave your attitude on AIM or myspace.

Lastly, it's funny how 99% of the posters here we're supporting a Bynum for JO type trade and how they bashed Mitch so hard for not doing it. Now they're kissing up to the both of them. What makes you so special to assume such a thing like what you're doing now with JO? All you're doing is assuming and giving an unclear and partial analysis. You would think after the whole Bynum/Mitch thing that posters would think twice and use critical thinking and logic to explain their reasons for their own thoughts.

If you respond with garbage again, I will not respond.

[UThinkUrSoGood]

You brought up that J.O. would actually hinder Bynum's play, but then again like what J Rob said earlier, having Wallace who will virtually do nothing for us on the offensive end will just make things harder for Bynum. Ben Wallace's inability to hit a mid-range will have Bynum being double teamed easier and faster. You brought up that the Triangle Offense would fix this problem. Again how? The Triangle offense focuses on spacing between the players, and with that point is exactly why Ben isn't a fit for this team at all. (unless he's coming off the bench for Bynum). Alot of us are already angry at the fact that we are over paying so many players, then we add another huge contract to the fold for one player? At least J.O.'s contract is almost up, and again if we choose to re-sign him or not that is a huge cap relief if we don't.

Also with your Duncan/Robinson comparison, Duncan's natural role is the PF, and is he able to hit the midrange as well, pairing up with David Robinson of course would work because you have a natural PF and a natural C playing in their natural roles.

You're talking about using Ben Wallace to his maximum effect. He played his maximum effect at the position he's best at. There is a reason we rarely see Bynum+Kwame on the floor together(it happened only once this season), congestion makes it really difficult to operate. It will make the slashing non-existent and people already complain about Kobe taking too many jump-shots as it is.

Defensively, do I need to repeat myself? Just last year Jermaine Oneil was the lead candidate for DPOY for more than half the season until his injury. Ben Wallace on the other hand who is now 34, is past his prime and his DPOY days are over as you can see from his play in Chicago, he is not going to deliver that defensive intensity your hoping for. I have to agree with JustBlaze on this one, the type of players that surround him doesn't effect what he does on the defensive end, and all the intangibles. Qualities like those are going to be there regardless of who youre teammates are. Having Kobe Bryant of Andrew Bynum as teammates won't improve his defense or intensity.

At this point, I'm sure everyone will agree with me if Odom had a more consistant jump shot, we would be happy with him playing the PF besides Bynum. We have too many slasher on this team to be able to add another big body down there with Bynum who we wouldn't be able to rely on offensively.

What you're hoping Ben will bring on the defensive end will not make up for that. Besides, again thinking Ben will play like he was playing 4 years ago in Detroit because we have Phil, Kobe, and Bynum is all speculation. There is a reason Detroit didn't resign Ben Wallance. They are doing what they have been doing w/o him. What Lebron did against the Pistons was just Godly and thinking Ben Wallace would be a difference maker in that series is just speculation. I'll state it again, thats like me saying having a HEALTHY Malone in 2004 Finals would have made the difference. FYI Malone was injured in the Timberwolves series where he did an amazing job containing Garnett. He wasn't 100% in Game 1 @ Staples, again its all speculation.

Bottom line, Ben Wallace, yes he was a great defensive player and yes he was equally important as any of the other Piston players during their run. But thinking he will be able to deliver those same results at age 34, because of Kobe/Phil/Bynum isn't "logical". Kobe is the best player in basketball today(speculation, which I do agree on), but that won't make Ben Wallace play to your expectations.

Jermaine Oneil who has come off a serious injury is still playing decent basketball. Is a great defender and it seems like your underestimating his defensive presence. He's just unfortunate to be in an offensive system in which he isn't thriving on. Again, it was just last year he was the leading DPOY candidate (and no it wasn't 3 years ago).
Ben Wallace on the other hand, what he has done and the type of basketball he was playing, that was about 3 years ago.

fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt!!!!

[UThinkUrSoGood]

-= original quote snipped =-



It called the intangibles. He does what the team truly needs/lacks such as defense, intensity, and intimidation. That's what Ben Wallace is and he is currently the best at it even though you may say he is declining.. If you're not going to read in complete what I have stated but continue to make such gestures as "That makes no sense", then I rather not respond. Leave your attitude on AIM or myspace.

Lastly, it's funny how 99% of the posters here we're supporting a Bynum for JO type trade and how they bashed Mitch so hard for not doing it. Now they're kissing up to the both of them. What makes you so special to assume such a thing like what you're doing now with JO? All you're doing is assuming and giving an unclear and partial analysis. You would think after the whole Bynum/Mitch thing that posters would think twice and use critical thinking and logic to explain their reasons for their own thoughts.

If you respond with garbage again, I will not respond.

You can't blame some of the people for wanting that, but again it was one or the other. No one here wanted to give up both Odom+Bynum, give the posters here credit for that. With Bynum's play last year, and knowing what Jermaine Oneil has accomplished, it's justified to want that kind of trade.
There was no way to know Bynum would have made this much of a significant imrpovement. You do remember Kobe himself wanted Bynum outta here right?
Who knows? Maybe because Kobe went on that tyraid is the reason Bynum was motivated enough this summer to work on his game.
But again, without knowing what Bynum was going to accomplish this year, it wasn't unreasonable for fans to want Jermaine Oneil here, even if they had to give up Bynum, but at least no one here was willing to part with both Bynum + Odom. It was all 50/50 and luckily we were on the winning end.

[Joe Kleazy]

Trippy if you think that wallace is anywhere near the player tthat JO is then your name truley fits you. Let me add to the multiple times that this will need to be re-typed for you to figure it out.

Like many have said JO brings EVERYTHING that ben brings to the table while ALSO adding offense. Both have ridiculous contracts for their current game while JO's end earlier.

Bynum's game has stepped up but the fact that kobe involves his team now allows all of them to produce more. Having ben allows bynum to be doubled everytime downcourt, which then KILLS production on both sides since he isn't as good on D as he used to be.

JO would allow bynum the space needed while still being capable of knocking down the mid-range J. Having bynum lengthens his career while allowing him to roam due to playing off the better player on D.


It is pretty clear why your the ONLY person who in this whole thread thinks ben would fit better. The chicago board is now in favor of playing ben's superior game off the bench due to his suckyness, so why would we want him. Then you want to WASTE our expiring contracts on this guy.

Get with the program my friend. Having JO would also be perfect in situtions like now where we need a back-up low scoring option, that can also hit mid range jumpers. JO also does what odom can on the boards and due to our SF depth losing odom wouldnt hurt also.

We complained all summer about not moving Bynum and Odom, so if we can get JO for Kwame and Odom it will be a steal. Keep ariza, luke, and radman. Lastly we wouuld need a cheap big from the D-league and we wait for Bynum to return.


Fish / farmar / critt
KB / critt / sasha
Ariza / luke / rad
Jo / rad / Turiaf
Bynum / Mihm / ??



That is a sweet azz rotation

For the current situation

Fish
KB
Ariza
Turiaf
JO

This would keep us afloat while bynum, and radman are down depending on who that additional backup big is. Maybe somone who can split the 4/5 in a cook( ) or garrity mold who is cheap. At this point Webber would be creamin his pants to join us. Or add sasha into the JO deal to take one of their bigs, maybe the drugged out harrison.

[trippy]

I will respond to every single thing you'll say, but this is my last go around.

You brought up that J.O. would actually hinder Bynum's play, but then again like what J Rob said earlier, having Wallace who will virtually do nothing for us on the offensive end will just make things harder for Bynum. Ben Wallace's inability to hit a mid-range will have Bynum being double teamed easier and faster. You brought up that the Triangle Offense would fix this problem. Again how? The Triangle offense focuses on spacing between the players, and with that point is exactly why Ben isn't a fit for this team at all. (unless he's coming off the bench for Bynum).

I want a Kobe-Bynum 1-2 punch. Meaning that Bynum would get more touches by next season. By bringing in an offensive player such as JO, he would take up some of Bynum's opportunities. During the games that Bynum scored 20+, he showed his post plays developing. Since Kobe was shooting less, guess who was taking his shots? Bynum. During the Sonics game, who took Bynum's shot amount? Kobe. It's a trade off, you can't have every damn player scoring. Sonics game didn't reveal the offensive absence, it revealed the defensive absence. This is my whole damn argument about Defense First. We score enough already, and the Sonics game proved just that.

Once again I am going to re-plug Karl Malone into this equation. He's a great all-around PF, but he's just not a role player/specialist. Assuming Malone is a much better player than JO, why wasn't he much of an impact when he was on the Lakers? Because it was all about him playing a ROLE while Shaq and Kobe did the damage. Just like how Rodman was for the Bulls, I think Ben is the perfect ROLE player that would compliment Bynum. Don't tell me Rodman always shot mid-range jumpers. He works without the ball and he did all the dirty work. It's called the intangibles.

So last playoffs the Bulls met the reigning champs, the Heat. How were they able to beat them that year when the only real adjustment they made was acquiring Ben Wallace. It must have been that inside presence. I wonder who was guarding Shaq. It must have been all the intangibles that aren't recorded in the scorecard. What's a big reason they didn't beat Detroit next round? Pistons had good team defense, Bulls lacked an offensive post player, and Luol Deng is still developing.

Alot of us are already angry at the fact that we are over paying so many players, then we add another huge contract to the fold for one player? At least J.O.'s contract is almost up, and again if we choose to re-sign him or not that is a huge cap relief if we don't.

Guess what? We're doing trade proposals. Not FA market. Don't go off on a whole new thing. I am totally for JO when he opts out because he would be willing to play for cheap as he already stated. But we're suggesting trade proposals from now till the offseason. When I use that whole Bynum/Mitch scenario, I'm using that as a means of showing that all we do is cry and moan about getting certain players without explaining effectively the reasons why. Unlike them, I have given valid reasons and explanations for Ben and not assumptions like them.

Also with your Duncan/Robinson comparison, Duncan's natural role is the PF, and is he able to hit the midrange as well, pairing up with David Robinson of course would work because you have a natural PF and a natural C playing in their natural roles.

Get over it already, the NBA has evoved. Versatility. Triangle doesn't need natural postions only specific roles. I'm tired of this subject already.

You're talking about using Ben Wallace to his maximum effect. He played his maximum effect at the position he's best at. There is a reason we rarely see Bynum+Kwame on the floor together(it happened only once this season), congestion makes it really difficult to operate. It will make the slashing non-existent and people already complain about Kobe taking too many jump-shots as it is.

He played his best doing what he always done. That's the dirty work. The intangibles. Defense, intensity, hustle, and intimidation. I really hate when people say Kwame is similar to Ben. Kwame is not DPOY material. Kwame is stupid as hell. Kwame sucks so much. Ben is a damn specialist aka role player that does the dirty work. You keep talking about offense while I bring up trading 2 tradeable assets for Ben. Offense is not the problem, DEFENSE is.

Defensively, do I need to repeat myself? Just last year Jermaine Oneil was the lead candidate for DPOY for more than half the season until his injury. Ben Wallace on the other hand who is now 34, is past his prime and his DPOY days are over as you can see from his play in Chicago, he is not going to deliver that defensive intensity your hoping for. I have to agree with JustBlaze on this one, the type of players that surround him doesn't effect what he does on the defensive end, and all the intangibles. Qualities like those are going to be there regardless of who youre teammates are. Having Kobe Bryant of Andrew Bynum as teammates won't improve his defense or intensity.

You just answered your own question. JO is injury prone and not worth 20M, yet you're more willing to use up cap space for him. Once again if JO comes for cheap during FA, I would take him but not 20M. Back to the subjest, If JO is supposedly godlike on D, how did he get owned so bad by someon like Bynum? Imagine if it was TD and KG, wow. Please don't use assumptions in an argument or debate. Saying his days are over is the same thing as saying JO should retire. Ben is in better shape and he is not injury prone. It's a fact that JO's knees are messed up. So please, no assumptions. Prove your point without personal assumptions. Now tell me, who's days are over? Kevin please keep in mind that you don't watch Pacer games, but I always watched the Bulls game when they were available. Please link me to where he was supposedly DPOY candidate last year.

At this point, I'm sure everyone will agree with me if Odom had a more consistant jump shot, we would be happy with him playing the PF besides Bynum. We have too many slasher on this team to be able to add another big body down there with Bynum who we wouldn't be able to rely on offensively.

What-ifs and make-believes isn't an effective way for argumentation. Once again, Triangle offense has certain people playing certain roles. What do you think Ben use to do for the Pistons? Set all these screens especially for Rip and other dirty work such as put backs and defense.

What you're hoping Ben will bring on the defensive end will not make up for that. Besides, again thinking Ben will play like he was playing 4 years ago in Detroit because we have Phil, Kobe, and Bynum is all speculation. There is a reason Detroit didn't resign Ben Wallance. They are doing what they have been doing w/o him. What Lebron did against the Pistons was just Godly and thinking Ben Wallace would be a difference maker in that series is just speculation. I'll state it again, thats like me saying having a HEALTHY Malone in 2004 Finals would have made the difference. FYI Malone was injured in the Timberwolves series where he did an amazing job containing Garnett. He wasn't 100% in Game 1 @ Staples, again its all speculation.

LOL we average 108PPG but give up 101.4PPG. Look at all the elite teams that has won championships. They don't give up 100PPG. And guess why analyst repeats over and over and over that defense wins championships. And Ben is better player in terms of defense opposed to JO, his past has proved it.

Bottom line, Ben Wallace, yes he was a great defensive player and yes he was equally important as any of the other Piston players during their run. But thinking he will be able to deliver those same results at age 34, because of Kobe/Phil/Bynum isn't "logical". Kobe is the best player in basketball today(speculation, which I do agree on), but that won't make Ben Wallace play to your expectations.

For the sake of players on the decline, JO is way ahead of Ben. Let's see, does Ben have any injuries to prove this wrong? Again no more assumptions.

Jermaine Oneil who has come off a serious injury is still playing decent basketball. Is a great defender and it seems like your underestimating his defensive presence. He's just unfortunate to be in an offensive system in which he isn't thriving on. Again, it was just last year he was the leading DPOY candidate (and no it wasn't 3 years ago).
Ben Wallace on the other hand, what he has done and the type of basketball he was playing, that was about 3 years ago.

Underestimating? I don't know about you, but I saw him get punked by Duncan and even Bynum this season and last season. There is a reason why he is known to be "soft". Just imagine if he were against Dirk and KG that can play on the perimeter. I rather rely on someone who has proven to be effective on the defensive end over and over.

Here is what it comes down to:
Ben is healthier.
Ben has no real history of injuries.
Ben doesn't have bad knees.
Ben is a true role player and that's the major element that this team needs and not offense.
Ben is cheaper in terms of what they trade for him vs what they would trade for JO.
Your trade proposal is currently unrealistic. Explain you're trade to Pacers fans and not me. Bulls are already wanting to move Ben's salary, that's why my proposal is realistic.

As I have already stated, we have reached the next level because of Bynum's development. His improvement is one of the biggest concerns for the Lakers. Lakers have always talked about a legit 2nd scoring option and role players. Guess what, Bynum is now the 2nd option. And guess what? We need solid role players. 16M is alot, but not that much if we get to keep Odom while trading Kwame + Vlad or Luke + 2nd pick.

[trippy]

Trippy if you think that wallace is anywhere near the player tthat JO is then your name truley fits you. Let me add to the multiple times that this will need to be re-typed for you to figure it out.

Like many have said JO brings EVERYTHING that ben brings to the table while ALSO adding offense. Both have ridiculous contracts for their current game while JO's end earlier.

Bynum's game has stepped up but the fact that kobe involves his team now allows all of them to produce more. Having ben allows bynum to be doubled everytime downcourt, which then KILLS production on both sides since he isn't as good on D as he used to be.

JO would allow bynum the space needed while still being capable of knocking down the mid-range J. Having bynum lengthens his career while allowing him to roam due to playing off the better player on D.


It is pretty clear why your the ONLY person who in this whole thread thinks ben would fit better. The chicago board is now in favor of playing ben's superior game off the bench due to his suckyness, so why would we want him. Then you want to WASTE our expiring contracts on this guy.

Get with the program my friend. Having JO would also be perfect in situtions like now where we need a back-up low scoring option, that can also hit mid range jumpers. JO also does what odom can on the boards and due to our SF depth losing odom wouldnt hurt also.

We complained all summer about not moving Bynum and Odom, so if we can get JO for Kwame and Odom it will be a steal. Keep ariza, luke, and radman. Lastly we wouuld need a cheap big from the D-league and we wait for Bynum to return.


Fish / farmar / critt
KB / critt / sasha
Ariza / luke / rad
Jo / rad / Turiaf
Bynum / Mihm / ??



That is a sweet azz rotation

For the current situation

Fish
KB
Ariza
Turiaf
JO

This would keep us afloat while bynum, and radman are down depending on who that additional backup big is. Maybe somone who can split the 4/5 in a cook( ) or garrity mold who is cheap. At this point Webber would be creamin his pants to join us. Or add sasha into the JO deal to take one of their bigs, maybe the drugged out harrison.

You talk pretty big for a lil chump. You're not worth much of a response.

Here learn the triangle offense before you talk about spacing:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vk5x6cLJLt0

Chicago issue:
Luol Deng is no Kobe
They have no post player
They lack a well-executed offense.

You're right. I'm the only person who wants Ben. I'm the same person that was against a Bynum for JO trade. Case closed.

[UThinkUrSoGood]

here's a link
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/bio.html
read 2006-2007

I'm done with this arguement, final thing I'd like to add. I'd rather have Kwame just expire then use him as a trade asset for a player like Ben. It's just not worth it. He isn't playing at the level your hoping and you really didn't defend against the statement of how playing with Kobe and Bynum will improve his intagibles which he is currently lacking in Chicago. He's not the same as he was in the Pistons, get over it. Ben is 34, J.O. is 29.

On a side note, Karl Malone played his role excellent for the Lakers. Yes he was a tremendous impact for the team. It's like your forgetting the job he did against Garnett in the WCF, but I really don't want to go into another arguement about that.

[trippy]

here's a link
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/bio.html
read 2006-2007

I'm done with this arguement, final thing I'd like to add. I'd rather have Kwame just expire then use him as a trade asset for a player like Ben. It's just not worth it. He isn't playing at the level your hoping and you really didn't defend against the statement of how playing with Kobe and Bynum will improve his intagibles which he is currently lacking in Chicago. He's not the same as he was in the Pistons, get over it. Ben is 34, J.O. is 29.

On a side note, Karl Malone played his role excellent for the Lakers. Yes he was a tremendous impact for the team. It's like your forgetting the job he did against Garnett in the WCF, but I really don't want to go into another arguement about that.

LOL you said you were done, but you still go on omg. If he expires, then he goes into FA how can he get traded if hes on the FA market.

Argumentation and debates requires listening, understanding, then responding. I have given the exact basis of requirements in order to prove my point. Respond to my valid points, and stop giving me assumptions. No one on this board has effectively "proved" that JO is a better "fit" while I given my personal opinions, responses, and reasons.

I don't care if you like JO as a better fit. I just want to see the analysis and basis of your conclusion. That's the purpose of argumentation and debates.

Ben is 33 not 34. I'll take his Age+Physicality over JO's.

[UThinkUrSoGood]

Your evidence and reasoning are on accomplishments of his past. It's clear from his play in Chicago that he is not playing at the level he was playing then, which is a valid point which you are choosing to ignore. It's nothing but an opinion of yours that he would be playing this perfect role playing position if he were to be on our team. By what analysis and logic are you basing that explanation on? What makes your views now any more valid then anyone elses on this board? As for me, you asked for a link to back up my claim, and I provided one, which you were unable to post reasonable arguement on.

main points of this discussion -

you discussed Ben Wallace bringing the intensity, intimidation, defense
reponse: why is he not showing all of these intagibles playing in Chicago?
you reponded with: due to his teammates, they are not the same as Kobe & Bynum.

your reponse there was irrelevant because like I said before, and which you chose to ignore, those intagibles you speak of are efforts that are going to be there regardless of who you're surrounded with.

We discussed the pay issues, obtaining Wallace means we have a big contract that we are stuck with for a couple of years, I brought that up and you didn't want to debate into that, even though it is a valid and important aspect of the discussion between the two.

Your statements of not wanting to trade JO for Bynum to back-up your case against others is also irrelavant. That has nothing to do with the current discussion.

point is, people have made valid posts which were just as valid as your own so really when it all comes down to it, it is all opinion, and majority would take Jermaine Oneil over Wallace.

[J Rob]

Trippy, calm down man. Its just basketball.

As far as I'm concerned, there's only one thing you need to focus on regarding the 33 year old big man:

$15.5 million/year

for

PPG 4.5 | RPG 8.8 | BPG 1.7



No thanks. Big Ben's best years are behind him.

JO at 29 can still play at a high level for another 4 years or so.