Ric Bucher: Tyrus Thomas available in trade talks

[anorexorcism]

A lot of people immediately dismiss somebody like a Van Gundy or Carlisle, but perhaps that's exactly what this team needs

[anorexorcism]

As AirP mentioned, Kirk's idea of a fast break is pulling up for a 15 footer.

OH GOD! When was the last time Kirk DIDN'T pull up for a jumper on a fast break? Him and Nocioni are the biggest culprits of doing that on this team. Thank you for reminding about this horrible act.

[BrooklynBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



OH GOD! When was the last time Kirk DIDN'T pull up for a jumper on a fast break? Him and Nocioni are the biggest culprits of doing that on this team. Thank you for reminding about this horrible act.

Its really the whole team, and it is specifically based on Skiles' strategy. I remember Skiles specifically saying that in reference to Luol, that the 18 foot jumper off the break is "a good shot for him" and that he wants Luol to push the tempo to get some of those.

Every player on the team does it. Hell, Duhon has shot a fastbreak 3 on more than one ocassion.

[anorexorcism]

-= original quote snipped =-



Its really the whole team, and it is specifically based on Skiles' strategy. I remember Skiles specifically saying that in reference to Luol, that the 18 foot jumper off the break is "a good shot for him" and that he wants Luol to push the tempo to get some of those.

Every player on the team does it. Hell, Duhon has shot a fastbreak 3 on more than one ocassion.

Geez, now that I think about it you're right. I'm having recollections of Gordon doing the same thing too.

I think the only player I've seen consistently try to take it to the hole on a fast break has been Deng, although as you said he's been guilty of this stupid pull up jumper crap too.

[BrooklynBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



Geez, now that I think about it you're right. I'm having recollections of Gordon doing the same thing too.

I think the only player I've seen consistently try to take it to the hole on a fast break has been Deng, although as you said he's been guilty of this stupid pull up jumper crap too.

Deng is an awesome slasher in the open floor, and imo, should never take that pull-up. But he's a verand y good perimeter shooter from the wings, so people like that he takes it makes it. Gordon, too, is not remembered for taking these shots because he's a great perimeter shooter. Duhon shoots too rarely and misses too often for us to take exception to ANY of his shots. So it comes down to Hinrich and to a lesser extent, Noc.

Someone's got to tell the team to never take those. Its killing our transition defense because a fastbreak for us turns into a fastbreak for THEM way too easily b/c of these jumpers. And we're not converting a high-enough percentage to bolster our offense anyway. Its a stupid, stupid shot.

[fudgie]

That pull up jumper has to be one of the most stupid plays in basketball. The point of pushing the pace is to get a high percentage shot before the defense is set. All our halfcourt offense generates is jump shots, so what do we do when we have an opportunity to take it to the hole in the open court, we take another jump shot of course.

[ice9]

That pull up jumper has to be one of the most stupid plays in basketball. The point of pushing the pace is to get a high percentage shot before the defense is set. All our halfcourt offense generates is jump shots, so what do we do when we have an opportunity to take it to the hole in the open court, we take another jump shot of course.

And when they do it on a fast break there's no one in position to get a rebound. Such a stupid shot. That's one if you take it, you better make it.

[amcoolio]

Okafor/Harrington/McInnis for Noah/Tyrus/Duhon/future 1st (protected for a while)

What do you think about this?

[BrooklynBulls]

Okafor/Harrington/McInnis for Noah/Tyrus/Duhon/future 1st (protected for a while)

What do you think about this?

Me, I'd protest over the pick. I'm not interested in giving up more than two top-picks for bigmen, even if protected for awhile. But yeah, otherwise, I think I'd begrudgingly do it.

We'd have 3 studs from the same draft, two of which went to UConn. We'd stay young while adding a really necessary piece while trading two potential pieces that aren't helping us a ton now. However, this depends on your opinion of Okafor. I see a guy who can get you 17/11/2/1/3 at the Center spot with very good man and help defense. Your perceptions may differ.

BTW- trading for Okafor with Noah/Tyrus has been a deal I was thinking about as soon as I saw Oak didn't sign an extension.

[Ben]

Me, I'd protest over the pick. I'm not interested in giving up more than two top-picks for bigmen, even if protected for awhile. But yeah, otherwise, I think I'd begrudgingly do it.

We'd have 3 studs from the same draft, two of which went to UConn. We'd stay young while adding a really necessary piece while trading two potential pieces that aren't helping us a ton now. However, this depends on your opinion of Okafor. I see a guy who can get you 17/11/2/1/3 at the Center spot with very good man and help defense. Your perceptions may differ.

I would probably do it, although I would probably protest the draft pick as well.

IMO Okafor is a bit overrated. I don't know how you could expect 17/11 when he has averaged 14ppg over his career and is putting up 12.8ppg in this, his 4th year. I mean, sure, he might start scoring 17ppg but he's done nothing to indicate that he will, and keep in mind that he has played on some very bad teams for which he's been a primary scoring threat.

But it would still be good to have BG, Deng and Okafor and it would simplify things in the frontcourt, b/c I don't believe that we're ever going to develop Tyrus properly.

One more thing to keep in mind: would our ownership really give 3 players big, long-term contracts in the same offseason and possibly dip into lux tax? I don't think so.

[BrooklynBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



I would probably do it, although I would probably protest the draft pick as well.

IMO Okafor is a bit overrated. I don't know how you could expect 17/11 when he has averaged 14ppg over his career and is putting up 12.8ppg in this, his 4th year. I mean, sure, he might start scoring 17ppg but he's done nothing to indicate that he will, and keep in mind that he has played on some very bad teams for which he's been a primary scoring threat.

But it would still be good to have BG, Deng and Okafor and it would simplify things in the frontcourt, b/c I don't believe that we're ever going to develop Tyrus properly.

One more thing to keep in mind: would our ownership really give 3 players big, long-term contracts in the same offseason and possibly dip into lux tax? I don't think so.

I know people don't think he can get 17 ppg. I think he can, and its cuz I'm a huge homer for him.

You know, whether we'd give them 3 big contracts would be decided by whether we trade for him at all. If we do, then we're willing.

But I did the math, and if we dropped Noah, Tyrus, Duhon, and only signed one mid-1st and 2nd, we could afford to give the "Trio" a combined 33 million dollars. Maybe a bit more. After that, Joe Smith would be off the payroll, and we'd likely make other smallish moves to stay under the tax. All I know is, its feasible to stay under the tax that first year, and its good enough for me.

[JeremyB0001]

In his 10+ minute games on the season he is: 7.1 PPG 5.7 RPG in 20.8 MPG.

In other words, he'd be averaging at least 12 and 10 with phenomenal defense (you conveniently ignored his contributions on that side of the floor) if he played starter's minutes? Congratulations, you somehow managed to come across as oblivious and biased in the same post.

Only thing discouraging about TT IMO is his lack of ability to finish strong. He gets blocked and stopped a bit to much for my liking. Scoring downlow should be easier for him than most with his hops and long arms but he just hasn't figured it out yet.

This puzzles me some. I've had this conversation with other people before and I just don't get it. Yes, he's not very good at making layups and doesn't always go up as strong as I like but he often attempts to dunk when he gets the ball in the paint and that virtually always leads to a bucket or free throws. His "inside" scoring is way down this season according to 82 games but I think that includes things like hook shots or jumpers 6 or 8 feet out which I don't consider finishing.

I realize alot want to see what they "really have" in Tyrus, but in this situation, I think it's pretty simple. Is Tyrus Thomas going to be better than Pau Gasol?

Either this is a distortion of Bucher's "report" or his "report" was about as meaningful as reporting that the team's uniforms include red. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that Tyrus is untouchable in a Gasol deal, so if that's what Bucher reported, it wasn't news.

I'm very leery of the Tyrus/Noah frontcourt ever being functional. They have looked like a disaster the few times they have played together this year (anyone see that atrocious pass TT attempted to Noah last night).

They just both share too many of the same traits and lack the ones we will eventually need. Keeping them both, regardless if they play different positions, seems like it would be creating the Deng/Noc situation all over to the effect that only one is going to have a good night at the expense of the other and his minutes.

I think it's a stretch to place a great deal of emphasis on the incredibly few minutes that Tyrus and Noah have played together, especially when both are still learning their way around the system and the league. Balance is ideal but I don't think it's essential. People wanted to move Chandler because he resembled Wallace but in retrospect, he would've been better paired with Wallace than P.J. who was a better fit. There are worse things than having two players who are phenomenal at defense and rebounding, as long as they can score some.

The Bulls simply don't have the talent to be the Suns. Don't have the guards, don't have the shooters and don't have the finishers. Skiles spent the first 20 something games of the season waving his arm emphatically for the team to run more, and now Boylan does the same thing screaming "run run run" to the team every time they get a rebound. Then we push it down the court and either make a silly turnover or move the ball a couple times and the offense stutters as no one is in position to get a quick score.

I agree with this but that doesn't mean the two can't be used more effectively on offense. Right now we run an offense where the job of our bigs is to set picks and shoot jumpers, clearly it's a poor fit for these two players.

Will people please stop defending Tyrus blindly.

If people were defending Tyrus blindly, they probably wouldn't provide reasons for their beliefs. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean their viewpoint is flawed. Show some class.

He has no offensive game whatsoever and he is not big enough to be Shaq and just pound in dunks.

Yet he somehow scores at an OK clip and scored even better than that last season. How do you explain that?

At his size, he needs a mid-range game. He doesn't have one and does not appear to be on the brink of developing one.

I'd say attempting and making jumpers considerably more often than last season would be a sign he might be developing one. Don't you hate it when the facts contradict your opinion?

His defense is shoddy.

He blocks shots and generates steals at a great clip and advanced metrics have rated him one of the best defenders in the league. Defense is his calling card and there's close to a universal consensus that he's great at it. There are those facts getting in the way again.

His turnovers are excessive.

There are something like 50 regulars in the league who turn the ball over more often (plenty are C's and F's) and he's improved drastically in that area since last season so I don't think it's the kiss of death.

His shot blocks are nice, when they aren't goal tends.

Do you watch games much? I'm not sure I've seen him get called for a goal tend all season.

He doesn't have a clue as to playing "team defense".

I'd say his ability to help constitutes pretty good team defense.

Many of his rebounds are uncontested after missed free throws or bad shots by opponents.

And other good rebounders don't go after those? This is beyond ridiculous. It really seems like you have an ax to grind.

He gets pushed around by people smaller than him, let alone having the stones or strength to deal with someone bigger than him.

Yet he still rebounds well. Go figure. Oh yeah, I forgot, he's the first player in the history of the league to pull down a ton of rebounds that shouldn't actually count.