Shaq and Vince Go Home: MIA-NJN-MIN

[ecuhus1981]

Trade ID #4417878

If the Nets FO has given up on VC like some fans have, this could be a viable trade. I don't know if I'm in love with the incoming value for NJ, but I have to say, I am intrigued by the idea. See what you think.

Miami Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Nenad Krstic, Bostjan Nachbar, Jason Collins, Vince Carter, Gerald Green
Outgoing Players: Daequan Cook, Smush Parker, Mark Blount, Shaquille O'Neal

***This deal should pass even FitF's rigorous financial sanity test. The Heat reduce their cap number this year by almost $7mil, with over $10mil in savings over the duration of the contracts. Vince's 5th year is a TEAM option, and roughly, he makes over the next 4 years what Shaq will over the next 3. Collins' and Nachbar's deals are a year shorter than Blount's and Parker's, respectively. Hence, the considerabel savings.***
MIA makes a clean break from the O'neal Era, and brings in pieces to complement Wade. The versatility that Dwyane and Vince would have on the floor together would be electric, and very difficult to contain. Plus, by bringing a local star of Carter's caliber, the Heat don't stand to lose much revenue from marketing with Shaq's departure. A note on Krstic: he is with the team now, not practicing, just working with the team trainer. He is asymptomatic, but needs conditioning. Once he's back, though, he could be the primary weapon inside for the Heat.
Williams, Wade, Carter, Haslem, (Krstic)
Quinn, Green, Wright, Nachbar, Collins



New Jersey Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Daequan Cook, Smush Parker, Mark Blount, Shaquille O'Neal, Ryan Gomes, Mark Madsen
Outgoing Players: Darrell Armstrong, Malik Allen, Nenad Krstic, Bostjan Nachbar, Jamaal Magloire, Jason Collins, Vince Carter
NJ takes on a bit of salary (and risk), to bring in a hometown hero. The deal also allows Jefferson to assume the much-deserved role of primary perimeter scorer.
Kidd, Cook, Jefferson, Williams, O'neal
Williams, Wright, Gomes, Boone, Blount



Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Darrell Armstrong, Malik Allen, Jamaal Magloire
Outgoing Players: Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Mark Madsen
Pretty simple for MIN: the Wolves trade a couple of promising youngsters who they do not plan to re-sign this summer, for the ability to shed Madsen's 3-year deal in favor of Magloire's expiring. Although Jamaal has fallen off, he can allow Jefferson to play a few more PF minutes.

[Flash is the Future]

If we're trading Shaq it's to rebuild. In which case, we shouldn't be trading Cook.

[shrink]

MN likes Madsen. He's not talented, but he's not paid like it. He accepts his role, goes to his spots, and is maybe the best Wolf in the community, and on the sidelines. A big man paid in the $2's is fine.

If you want to hear a story of how decent a guy he is, and why you don't see him in any trade offers from the wolves, check this out:

www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/thanks_mad_dog.html

[deeney0]

Wolves do this why? Find a way to move Jaric and it'd work. Moving Madsen? Uh, no.

[ecuhus1981]

I wouldn't be against buying him out, if MIN wanted him back. It's really supposed to be a small deal with good financial benefits, to create a little more cap room this summer.

[shrink]

I wouldn't be against buying him out, if MIN wanted him back. It's really supposed to be a small deal with good financial benefits, to create a little more cap room this summer.

I think your deal is completely understandable, and there's no way that most people outside of MIN would know why we love Madsen. It sure isn't apparent in his stats. MIN is a minor part of the deal anyway.

[ecuhus1981]

If we're trading Shaq it's to rebuild. In which case, we shouldn't be trading Cook.

Similarly, I could say that if the Nets were to trade Carter, IT would be to rebuild, and therefore we wouldn't trade Krstic. The bottom line is, this is not a pure rebuild for either team. For the Nets, they take on salary this year in order to bring in a future supporting cast for Boone and the Williamses. I'm sure you feel that you don't want to move Shaq without getting a young replacement C in return; THAT'S the way we feel about Cook, in regards to Vince's departure. I'm sure your next response will be, "well, Cook is healthy but Krstic is coming off of an injury". To that I answer, Carter is healthy, but Shaq is coming off of an injury. Do you see the give-and-take in this deal?

With a swingman trio of Wade/Carter/Davis (with Green and Nachbar as extra depth!), Cook shouldn't be missed terribly in the rotation. Similarly, Josh and Sean surrounding Shaq, Blount and Gomes should make up for missing Nenad. Be fair, and understand that the Krstic-for-Cook portion of the deal could be the best for both sides.

I'm surprised you don't have anything at all to say about the finances.

[MN Die Hard]

Interesting idea, but why are the Wolves even involved?

Why not simplify it and start out with Shaq for VC and Jason Collins?

[ecuhus1981]

Interesting idea, but why are the Wolves even involved?

Why not simplify it and start out with Shaq for VC and Jason Collins?

The basic answer is, to use MIN as a financial lever, to get MIA as much savings as possible. MIN adds to their capspace slightly this year, in order to save over the long term. Also, I wanted to find a willing partner to dump salary in exchange for extra youth. That fits the description for MIN. Finally, I wanted to replace Boki with someone for NJ, and Gomes would be a nice fit, even if he finds a richer offer elsewhere this summer. Similarly, Miami I figured could use a 5th swingman for Cook's departure, and Green could be good with Wright for this year, even if HE leaves after the season.

Is MIN interested, provided NJ buys out Mad Dog so he can return to the Wolves?

[Flash is the Future]

-= original quote snipped =-



Similarly, I could say that if the Nets were to trade Carter, IT would be to rebuild, and therefore we wouldn't trade Krstic. The bottom line is, this is not a pure rebuild for either team. For the Nets, they take on salary this year in order to bring in a future supporting cast for Boone and the Williamses. I'm sure you feel that you don't want to move Shaq without getting a young replacement C in return; THAT'S the way we feel about Cook, in regards to Vince's departure. I'm sure your next response will be, "well, Cook is healthy but Krstic is coming off of an injury". To that I answer, Carter is healthy, but Shaq is coming off of an injury. Do you see the give-and-take in this deal?

With a swingman trio of Wade/Carter/Davis (with Green and Nachbar as extra depth!), Cook shouldn't be missed terribly in the rotation. Similarly, Josh and Sean surrounding Shaq, Blount and Gomes should make up for missing Nenad. Be fair, and understand that the Krstic-for-Cook portion of the deal could be the best for both sides.

I'm surprised you don't have anything at all to say about the finances.

So you keep Krstic and we'll keep Cook. But really, we wouldn't want VC. We'd want expirings.

[4ho5ive]

How about swapping out Madsen for Greg Buckner. Adds that vet presence for young Cook and it still works financially. Same length of contract also.

Sota is left with exps in Doleac, Ratliff, Smith, Telfair, Green, Allen, Mags, and Armstrong.

Leaves us thin at the 3 spot. I may do this.

Lets say NJ throws in Jefferson to even this out

[deeney0]

No, Buckner is only guaranteed for next year. Madsen runs longer than that.

[4ho5ive]

You're right ESPN Trade Checker has him listed as 3 more years but ShamSports salaries shows he isnt guaranteed beyond next year. Good call deeney.

[ecuhus1981]

So, I think I have the Wolves on the bus for their role in the trade. I'd like to hear from some other Nets fans, but sometimes I'm the only one around here!

[BBallFreak]

I would want Vince Carter dealt elsewhere for a rebuilding package - expirings and picks/prospects, but I'd be fine with this as a basis. I'd be much better without Cook's exclusion. You could take Wright, instead.

[deeney0]

So, I think I have the Wolves on the bus for their role in the trade. I'd like to hear from some other Nets fans, but sometimes I'm the only one around here!

You have a funny way of listening.

[hermes]

wolves gotta keep madsen
he can dance

[the_bruce]

Not a bad Idea financially but 90% of MN fans say no.

1) Everyone loves Madsen and noone sees the point of moving him
2) Some want to keep gomes
3) Some fans want to keep green around (I'd like to see them resign him, and I've seen a few other post a similar sentiment)

[ecuhus1981]

What I'm saying is, the Nets would buy out Madsen so he can return to Minnesota for a minimum contract. You want him, so you get to keep him! You also get an expiring that can play come C for you.

As for Gomes and Green, I thought most MIN fans agreed that the Wolves FO will not pursue either Gomes or Green this summer, preferring to extend Al and re-sign Smith while staying under the cap. I don't think it's too much to ask for what you get out of this trade, either; they're a couple of promising players, but they're rentals.

I seriously want to throw up in my mouth, that Heat fans honestly feel this deal is unfair.

[deeney0]

You're not listening; so what if Madsen comes back (which would be impossible cause the Wolves would be at 15)? This trade is giving Green and Gomes away for nothing. I don't think Green is going to be kept, but that doesn't mean you give him away. Gomes may be kept - I'd say it's probably 60-40 letting him go right now, but there's still a long season of auditions for these guys. Just because the Wolves may not keep him doesn't mean they just give him away.

Moving Madsen's deal doesn't do anything, it's not big enough to make a difference, and we like him here. Moving Jaric might get the Wolves to part with Smith or Gomes. Gomes might be had for a future 1st or a promising young C or PG. That's about it.