Hedo's Role

[knappy]

I was looking at the message board on the Orlando Magic site, but I don't post there anymore, but there was an interesting thread started by Military Magic and good comments by Military Magic that I agree with - almost no one agreed with him.

The gist is that the Magic are hurting with Hedo trying to be the go to guy when he is better suited as a role player - I agree.

If I posted on the Magic site I would have added what I am about to add now, but I just can't seem to go back to that site so you all are stuck with me.

The best the Magic ever played was the end of the 05 - 06 season - I am trying to recapture that time and we just haven't yet. What were the differences - one of the biggest was that Hedo became a role player and deferred to Nelson. Nelson was our go to guy and the Magic did not force the ball into Dwight over and over again - BHill left them alone and the Magic played great, plus GHill was out and Jameer did not defer to anyone.

Hedo is best suited as a complimentary piece not as the go to guy - he is rarely successful in the clutch - does he deliver in the clutch at times yes, but he is not a go to guy like the go to guys in this league. The closest go to guy we have right now is Jameer Nelson, but he is totally lost right now so that is another problem. Lewis could become a go to guy, but Hedo doesn't play as well when he is being the Man. He plays well as a role player.

I agree with Military Magic that he is putting up too many shots and with Hedo as our go to guy we will lose more games than we will win. Will he come through on ocassion yes, but it hurts the team. The offense should start with Jameer, but he has been missing in action and until he returns we'll have some problems. Lewis out of position and the lack of a decent PF that can play some serious minutes we'll continue to have problems and lack of defense doesn't help either.

Not having Darko and not having Ariza hurt this team also - those were boneheaded stupid decisions - if you lose Darko you get something in return - if you trade Ariza you make him part of a package and get a player like Artest - I am sick of nice guys - give me some players with attitude. Rasheed Wallace had a bad attitude - how good is he for Detroit - I don't want a team of bad attutudes, but give me someone tough and he'll fit in here and curb his ways and maybe curb the ways of the soft Magic.

So, where am I going with all this rambling - Hedo needs to be a role player and stop forcing so much action through himself - he plays better when he is not the one creating the offense.

Jameer needs to step up and start looking for his shot - stop the passing **** - everyone knows you won't shoot - score 20 points a night and let Hedo be a role player - Jameer we know you can do it - now step up and stop this BS.

Military Magic was attacked because everyone said how good Hedo was playing and that he wasn't the problem, but no one got what the MM was saying - Hedo is fine, but he needs to adapt to a complimentary role - he needs to be a role player to Dwight, Lewis and Jameer - can he put up some points yes, but let Jameer run the offense if he'll wake up.

It is not necessarily Hedo's fault as many players are absent on the Magic, but he needs to be a role player and the Magic desperately need a solid strong PF - move Dooling, Arroyo and Garrity with cash (the only way anyone will take Garrity) and if you aren't going to play Redick than use him to get us a strong PF - come on now - enough is enough - don't blow another season like last year when the Magic wouldn't fire Brian Hill.

We have a great coach - give him a PF. Get Hedo to be a role player. And send Nelson to shock treatments - Nelson is so key to this team. Keys in that run - the end of 05 - 06 - Nelson #1, Ariza #2, Darko #3 - #2 and #3 are gone, but we have Lewis. #4 Hedo playing a role and not being the go to guy at that time and he did well and the team did well.

Anyways, sorry to go on so long - I'm interested to see if on this board everyone disagrees and thinks Hedo should remain our #1 option - I'm interested to see if people get what is being said here by me - I get what MM was saying, but it didn't seem like anyone on the Magic message board got it. Many times however I'm in the minority.

[knappy]

running the offense as much as we do through Hedo is not a good idea - I forgot that in all that I said prior

[DiplomaticMagic]

EDIT: OH **** WRONG THREAD

[mhectorgato]

Not having Darko and not having Ariza hurt this team also - those were boneheaded stupid decisions - if you lose Darko you get something in return - if you trade Ariza you make him part of a package and get a player like Artest - I am sick of nice guys - give me some players with attitude. Rasheed Wallace had a bad attitude - how good is he for Detroit - I don't want a team of bad attutudes, but give me someone tough and he'll fit in here and curb his ways and maybe curb the ways of the soft Magic.

A) Didn't lose Darko for nothing. Losing him gave us the Lewis cap space.

B) Artest >>> Ariza. No way would a trade be centered around Ariza that would yield us a player of that caliber.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Sorry about my error earlier. To go about Jameer...I was watching his pre-season games vs. Cavs in China today. And the 1st one he looked amazing. I don't know if it was Cleveland's Defense or what. But he was just going to the hoop laying it up. And he had like 3-4 pretty nice crossover. And I'm just thinking wouldn't it be beautiful to see him do that every game. I don't know about Jameer being a consistent 20 ppg scorer. But definetly 15ppg and up.

Hedo is best a complimentary player but so is Jameer. And being a pass 1st pg is something he is not. And he's shooting it well this year by taking limited shots. If he starts looking for his shots more his ppg will raise up.

As far as being the player in clutch..We don't really have one. But I'm hoping Lewis will be that guy.

BTW..since this thread involves Jameer heavily..I thought that I should say that he is questionable for tommorow's game.

[taruky1]

I would agree that the Hedo of the moment who can't hit the broad side of a barn shouldn't have the offense run through him. But once this funk ends, whatever the reason for it is, I think the Magic get a lof of benefit out of having the ball in Hedo's hands. He's a quadruple threat; shoot the three in your face, drive and shoot the midrange jumper in your face, take it to the hole, or draw a defender and get it to an open shooter or Dwight. The past couple games he hasn't kept that balance out of frustration and trying to snap out of a funk. I mean he has really missed some easy layups and jumpers.

[TooNice00]

the offense should run through no one else but dwight. until dwight is the center of our offense we will never go anywhere. hedo taking the most shots on this team is just stupid.

[knappy]

-= original quote snipped =-



A) Didn't lose Darko for nothing. Losing him gave us the Lewis cap space.

B) Artest >>> Ariza. No way would a trade be centered around Ariza that would yield us a player of that caliber.

Ariza for Artest straight up no they wouldn't go for that, but Ariza in combination - some expirings, a first round draft pick.

Ariza had some appeal and could have been packaged for a big time player or a solid PF is what I was saying, but I agree you won't get Artest for Ariza straight up.

[TooNice00]

lol ariza would never be packaged for a big time player. are you kidding me?

[knappy]

the thing with Hedo - I would get frustrated the end of 05 when he was acting as the go to guy and we weren't doing well and Hedo was pressing a little. With the way everyone is playing I don't blame Hedo, I am just saying the very end of 05 - 06 he stopped being the go to guy and we still got all the benefit of having Hedo without the negatives that come along with him trying to be the guy.

we are limited with the who the guy will be on our team, but I would rather it be Nelson and hopefully Lewis

[mhectorgato]

Ariza for Artest straight up no they wouldn't go for that, but Ariza in combination - some expirings, a first round draft pick.

Ariza had some appeal and could have been packaged for a big time player or a solid PF is what I was saying, but I agree you won't get Artest for Ariza straight up.

I think your over valuing Ariza ... But you'll probably say that I'm undervaluing him.

Artest = All-Star; defensive lock-down; offensive weapon.

Ariza <<<< Artest.

Artest >> Ariza + non-lottery pick + expiring

iirc, our 1st round pick is untradeable because you can't do in successive years.

[vinageras]

I do think that we've been forcing Hedo to do to much in the last games, the problem I see is the next: we DO NOT have a go-to guy. Rashard has proven to be very passive at times. What we DO have is 4 guys who have been forced to be go-to guys somewhere in their NBA career (Jameer - with Brian Hill, Hedo - right now, Shard - sometimes at Seattle, Dwight - in some games), and a guy who has been submitted to that kind of pressure on an everyday basis at college level (JJ Redick - at Duke), so we should take advantage of this. Let's stop trying to find our go-to guy, when we can give the ball to 5 different guys and draw them the adequate play to be a go-to guy. I still remember the game vs. the Nets, when, at the last play, everyone in the O-rena, in Orlando, in New Jersey, and even where I was on vacations (Yucatan) knew that Hedo was going to take that shot. If we look to surprise them by having 5 possibilities on the court, other teams' defenses will not know who to guard.

On another point, IF we ran our offense through Jameer, we would need Hedo to be our Point Forward, since we need to have better ball movement. I do believe Jameer is more suited to play a shooting role, than a pass first role. If Jameer was a few inches high, and we had a defensive PG, Jameer would be playing SG, but we have what we have, so we need SOMEONE to pass the ball. Stan knows this, and that's one of the main reasons the offense flows through Hedo most of the time, because he seems to be the best passer we have on our starting lineup. That is the other reason why Hedo hasn't been sent to a backup role. By having Hedo and Jameer on the court, we almost have 1 PG's abilities. If we had a pass first PG, Jameer and Hedo would run the backup unit, in my opinion.

[knappy]

lol ariza would never be packaged for a big time player. are you kidding me?

You don't think Ariza and a 1st round draft pick plus Carlos and Dooling couldn't have gotten us a good player? And throw in Garrity and cash to cover his contract for more cap relief.

I think Ariza has as much trade value as Redick.

[The Letter J]

A) Didn't lose Darko for nothing. Losing him gave us the Lewis cap space.

That would be nothing. If Dwight left tomorrow, we wouldn't view as gaining cap space, we would view it as nothing. When someone refers to getting something for a player it usually means another player (via trade), picks, or maybe cash (which means nothing to fans).

We could have lost other useless players to gain cap Lewis.

[mhectorgato]

You don't think Ariza and a 1st round draft pick plus Carlos and Dooling couldn't have gotten us a good player? And throw in Garrity and cash to cover his contract for more cap relief.

I think Ariza has as much trade value as Redick.

Doing this turns into cap relief + Ariza - who has a player option so he might be more cap relief.

Didn't we trade our 1st last season? If so the best would be a 2nd rounder.

[knappy]

the offense should run through no one else but dwight. until dwight is the center of our offense we will never go anywhere. hedo taking the most shots on this team is just stupid.

Dwight should be involved, but he has not progressed enough to make him the sole focal point of our offense - too many turnovers and too much struggling from the line, but I think he needs to be more of a focal point that Hedo.

Hedo can get his touches and scoring opportunities and he can contribute I just don't want him to be our go to guy at the end of games and I don't want him to be as much a focus on the offense as he is.

More should run through Lewis and Jameer and Dwight - I think we are a little out of balance - mostly with Jameer choosing to pass all the time instead of shoot. Anyway, Hedo can be a contributor, but he should let some others create more and he create a little less.

Until Dwight learns to pass better and cut down on his turnovers - I don't think he can be the focal point of our offense - now, I am not saying you don't go to Dwight - you go to him as much as anyone else or more than anyone else, but when BHill was here he tried to go into Dwight about 60% of the time and had nothing else setup for anyone else and it was awful. Going into Dwight the proper amount - what that is I don't know, but I think Jameer, Lewis, Hedo and Dwight all need to be productive scoring and in crunch time I would rather have Jameer direct things and look for his shot than Hedo and we could try Lewis as well in the clutch, but I don't see that as a good fit for Hedo.

[mhectorgato]

That would be nothing. If Dwight left tomorrow, we wouldn't view as gaining cap space, we would view it as nothing. When someone refers to getting something for a player it usually means another player (via trade), picks, or maybe cash (which means nothing to fans).

We could have lost other useless players to gain cap Lewis.

What exprings did we have at the end of last season?

Would they be enough to cover Darko's 7mill contract?

We had to renounce Darko AND Hill to get the space. Had we not done both of those actions, we couldn't have signed Lewis. Therefore we didn't lose Darko for nothing.

Had we signed him earlier in pre-season, then a good chunk of our cap would have been used up.

We'd have to make trades ...

Had we traded him, we'd just get another salary back....

Renouncing Darko gave us the opportunity to get Lewis... Just think of it as a trade.

[knappy]

I do think that we've been forcing Hedo to do to much in the last games, the problem I see is the next: we DO NOT have a go-to guy. Rashard has proven to be very passive at times. What we DO have is 4 guys who have been forced to be go-to guys somewhere in their NBA career (Jameer - with Brian Hill, Hedo - right now, Shard - sometimes at Seattle, Dwight - in some games), and a guy who has been submitted to that kind of pressure on an everyday basis at college level (JJ Redick - at Duke), so we should take advantage of this. Let's stop trying to find our go-to guy, when we can give the ball to 5 different guys and draw them the adequate play to be a go-to guy. I still remember the game vs. the Nets, when, at the last play, everyone in the O-rena, in Orlando, in New Jersey, and even where I was on vacations (Yucatan) knew that Hedo was going to take that shot. If we look to surprise them by having 5 possibilities on the court, other teams' defenses will not know who to guard.

On another point, IF we ran our offense through Jameer, we would need Hedo to be our Point Forward, since we need to have better ball movement. I do believe Jameer is more suited to play a shooting role, than a pass first role. If Jameer was a few inches high, and we had a defensive PG, Jameer would be playing SG, but we have what we have, so we need SOMEONE to pass the ball. Stan knows this, and that's one of the main reasons the offense flows through Hedo most of the time, because he seems to be the best passer we have on our starting lineup. That is the other reason why Hedo hasn't been sent to a backup role. By having Hedo and Jameer on the court, we almost have 1 PG's abilities. If we had a pass first PG, Jameer and Hedo would run the backup unit, in my opinion.

Good comments throughout - On Hedo's passing I think that there is plenty of room for improvement - Hedo can make a decent pass on occasion, but he can also throw the ball to no one and have it bounce out of bounds. Hedo does need to learn how to make a bounce pass though - he doesn't do it and defenders know it - teach him how to throw a bounce pass and he'll be better.

[knappy]

-= original quote snipped =-


That would be nothing. If Dwight left tomorrow, we wouldn't view as gaining cap space, we would view it as nothing. When someone refers to getting something for a player it usually means another player (via trade), picks, or maybe cash (which means nothing to fans).

We could have lost other useless players to gain cap Lewis.

I agree that we really didn't get anything for Darko - yes it gave us cap space, but without it I think we would have signed Lewis for $75 to $80m -the amount he wanted and we wouldn't have over paid.

[mhectorgato]

I agree that we really didn't get anything for Darko - yes it gave us cap space, but without it I think we would have signed Lewis for $75 to $80m -the amount he wanted and we wouldn't have over paid.

Reportedly he wanted the max. Why would he take 2/3 of that?

Besides, if you lower the price to that level, that takes him out of Base Year issues and then many more teams would be have a good chance of getting him.