Does adding Ben Wallace make the Raptors contenders?

tosi · Post #1 » by **tosi** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:13 pm

Regardless of the Cap implications, what I really want to know is what you guys think of Ben Wallace on the team.

It seems like most Bulls fans are willing to ship him out for merely expiring contracts. That's almost nothing for a player that plays in a way that we need in a bad way. A rebounder, and a big body to detract players from driving in the lane.

I find with out team mostly a jump shooting team, Ben Wallace could be huge for our team. With so many shots being fired wouldn't it would be nice to have a rebounding monster underneath the basket? Granted he is not what he used to be, but with the Raptors eyeing a spot in the playoffs, wouldn't it be nice to have Big Ben?

HighOctane · Post #2 » by **HighOctane** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:15 pm

Contract aside, he would add the necessary grit to this team, as well as a veteran's presence. Our team needs a lot of that, and perhaps it would quell the illusion of a 'soft euro' team.

JD225 · Post #3 » by **JD225** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:16 pm

Adding Ben Wallace makes us awful. Give me Hump any day of the week.

Shak23 · Post #4 » by **Shak23** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:16 pm

hump > ben wallace

deknow · Post #5 » by **deknow** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:16 pm

nope. I think his game has regressed mightily since leaving the Pistons. He is no longer the intimidator in the middle and still a liability on the offensive end.

A starting five that features

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
Wallace

is an offense that will struggle to score.

True Warrior Zo · Post #6 » by **True Warrior Zo** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:16 pm

It depends on what the Raps would have to give up to get him of course... however, if he was to be just placed on our team i dont think he would help us much anyways. He's been known to be a distraction in the locker room as well as an offensive liability. He also cant be in teh lineup at the end of games due to his horrid FT%. Wallace is not right for this team (or most now-a-days).

bcskunk · Post #7 » by **bcskunk** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:18 pm

Ben Wallace:

33mpg 34%fg 45%ft 4.5ppg

/thread

dirtybird · Post #8 » by **dirtybird** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:18 pm

We already have someone like that, his name is Hump. Ben has been declined alot since leaving the Pistons. Plus, how can you say ignoring cap implications? That's the whole point of throwing out ideas. It's to see how it fits in the REAL WORLD. I could just say, say we could trade for Kobe, Duncan, and Boozer for Dixon, Martin, and Joey G wouldn't that be great for the Raptors? What's the point of even thinking about that?

Post #9 » by **SWN** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:18 pm

Why would he make us contenders while the bulls with him are struggling to make the playoffs?

Both teams can be classified fairly similarly as "jump-shooting" teams.

Trilogy · Post #10 » by **Trilogy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:20 pm

Hell No.

People don't realize how bad Wallace has become.

He's probably the worst contract in the whole league, and he's a cancer to boot.

tosi · Post #11 » by **tosi** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:20 pm

dirtybird wrote:We already have someone like that, his name is Hump. Ben has been declined alot since leaving the Pistons. Plus, how can you say ignoring cap implications? That's the whole point of throwing out ideas. It's to see how it fits in the REAL WORLD. I could just say, say we could trade for Kobe, Duncan, and Boozer for Dixon, Martin, and Joey G wouldn't that be great for the Raptors? What's the point of even thinking about that?

Because it's a discussion that does not mean that we would get him. I said to avoid cap implications because i wanted to know what people thought about Adding Ben Wallace without going into Detail about cap.

HighOctane · Post #12 » by **HighOctane** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:22 pm

deknow wrote:nope. I think his game has regressed mightily since leaving the Pistons. He is no longer the intimidator in the middle and still a liability on the offensive end.

A starting five that features

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
Wallace

is an offense that will struggle to score.

Wallace's game has regressed, but he still averages 1.7 bpg and 1.5 spg. He now averages 8.7 rpg which could easily hit 10+, especially on our team, where rebounds go to anyone, and Wallace used to be at 11 rpg 2 years ago.

Now, if you put Moon and Wallace on the floor, you've got really not much frontcourt offense. This means, a Sf who can score, probably Delfino or Kapono will be on in substitution, because playing both is illogical.

Calderon
Parker
Delfino/Kapono
Bosh
Wallace

tosi · Post #13 » by **tosi** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:23 pm

Who would be motivated to play well on the Bulls team at the moment.

When we face KG or Rasheed in the playoffs who would you want to stop them? Hump? Bosh?

Joker · Post #14 » by **Joker** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:24 pm

Overall, Humphries is better than Wallace at this point.

tosi · Post #15 » by **tosi** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:24 pm

HighOctane wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wallace's game has regressed, but he still averages 1.7 bpg and 1.5 spg. He now averages 8.7 rpg which could easily hit 10+, especially on our team, where rebounds go to anyone, and Wallace used to be at 11 rpg 2 years ago.

Now, if you put Moon and Wallace on the floor, you've got really not much frontcourt offense. This means, a Sf who can score, probably Delfino or Kapono will be on in substitution, because playing both is illogical.

Calderon
Parker
Delfino/Kapono
Bosh
Wallace

I figure with the amount of shots being fired Ben's rebounding numbers could easily go out. Lets face it, we are out rebounded too many times.

True Warrior Zo · Post #16 » by **True Warrior Zo** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:27 pm

I hate to be "that guy" but you also have to look at where the Raps want to be in the future. This year, it would take avery special player to make us a championship contender (its quite obvious Ben isn't that good). If the raps want their focus to remain 2 years from now to make the push, Ben will be completely useless by then.

deknow · Post #17 » by **deknow** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:28 pm

HighOctane wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wallace's game has regressed, but he still averages 1.7 bpg and 1.5 spg. He now averages 8.7 rpg which could easily hit 10+, especially on our team, where rebounds go to anyone, and Wallace used to be at 11 rpg 2 years ago.

Now, if you put Moon and Wallace on the floor, you've got really not much frontcourt offense. This means, a Sf who can score, probably Delfino or Kapono will be on in substitution, because playing both is illogical.

Calderon
Parker
Delfino/Kapono
Bosh
Wallace

I agree with everything you wrote minus his rebounding total. I can't see him getting more now that he's a Raptor Bosh is a great rebounder and is getting under 10.

Delfino and Moon to me give you about the same on offense. I hate to admit it but its true.

Pono may give you more but his defense will make you worse.

All in all Wallace is not the answer here.

LieCheatSteal · Post #18 » by **LieCheatSteal** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:29 pm

A Wallace-type of player is what the Raptors need ie a center that hangs back, rebounds on the defensive end, guards the opposition's big men and block shots without worrying about offense. However, Ben's game have really deteriorated, probably soon after him and the Piston starting five all made the allstar team in 2005 (?). Plus, his attitude problems (ie wanting plays to be called for him, the Wallace-Noah thing, which may not be Ben's fault) and his piss poor free throw shooting (his career % is lowest in the history of the league, even worse then Shaq's) makes him undesirable to be in a Raptor uniform. Alternatives would be centers like (in no real order) Dalembert, Pryzbilla, Camby, Varejo and Diop.

True Warrior Zo · Post #19 » by **True Warrior Zo** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:35 pm

deknow wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I agree with everything you wrote minus his rebounding total. I can't see him getting more now that he's a Raptor Bosh is a great rebounder and is getting under 10.

Delfino and Moon to me give you about the same on offense. I hate to admit it but its true.

Pono may give you more but his defense will make you worse.

All in all Wallace is not the answer here.

what you just said intrigues me. could it be that even though Bosh is a fairly decent rebounder, his numbers are lower than they would potentially be with another go to guy scoring on the team. I mean, usually the ball is in Bosh's hands once a possession, and he gets doubled quite frequently so theres always a second guy around to help box him out. If so, couldn't this problem be solved by acquiring a more complete small forward or shooting guard rather than a big ben type, to help free up Bosh more often for rebounds???

deknow · Post #20 » by **deknow** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:41 pm

True Warrior Zo wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

what you just said intrigues me. could it be that even though Bosh is a fairly decent rebounder, his numbers are lower than they would potentially be with another go to guy scoring on the team. I mean, usually the ball is in Bosh's hands once a possession, and he gets doubled quite frequently so theres always a second guy around to help box him out. If so, couldn't this problem be solved by acquiring a more complete small forward or shooting guard rather than a big ben type, to help free up Bosh more often for rebounds???

I don't think you can measure one's rebounding prowess by what they do at the offensive end. What I mean't was Wallace would get some boards but not more than Bosh is currently getting. there are only so many rebounds to be had, and with Bosh Wallace and Moon that is a ton. I can't see Wallace's numbers increasing.

the Raptors need another scorer I.E a slasher to help them finish games better.