Wade in Tmac's Orlando situation

[jzmagik]

Well we know what happened with Orlando, how Tmac was never able to "carry" Orlando out of the 1st round, despite not having Grant Hill and having Juwan Howard as his second best player. But Now look at Wade and the Heat, injuries have taken their toll, but it's become apparent that Wade can't carry a team any better than Tmac could. Sure injuries have taken their toll, but despite this, everyone including Heat fans are claiming the Heat are one of the worst teams in the league. My question is, why does Wade get a free-pass from of criticism for getting swept out of the 1st round when they're defending champions, to being lottery bound for a top 3 pick the season after? Keep in mind, everyone absolutely ripped into Tmac for never making it out of the first round in Orlando.

[mobiuseinz]

The heat will get a good draft pick, and either draft Jordan or Beasley to combine them with Wade as a 1-2 punch in the future and they'll be back in contention in like 2-3 years.

[XTC]

Well we know what happened with Orlando, how Tmac was never able to "carry" Orlando out of the 1st round, despite not having Grant Hill and having Juwan Howard as his second best player. But Now look at Wade and the Heat, injuries have taken their toll, but it's become apparent that Wade can't carry a team any better than Tmac could. Sure injuries have taken their toll, but despite this, everyone including Heat fans are claiming the Heat are one of the worst teams in the league. My question is, why does Wade get a free-pass from of criticism for getting swept out of the 1st round when they're defending champions, to being lottery bound for a top 3 pick the season after? Keep in mind, everyone absolutely ripped into Tmac for never making it out of the first round in Orlando.

Wade can carry a team... Just this team is one of the worst team I've EVER seen...

Not even Kobe could save them. Wade is doing as much as he can, but when your starting PG in Chris Quinn, and Ricky Davis is a core player, you're in trouble.

Add to the fact D-Wright is the starting SF, and he's a major bust.

Shaq fouling every 3 minutes...

That is the one of the worst teams I've ever een assembled honestly. Did you see what Wade can do when he has a DECENT supporting cast?

He can win you a title. Did you not see his title run when he won the title? That was carrying a team.

The man can carry a team, but his team is horrible, no defense, and even worst offense.

[jzmagik]

[quote="XTC"][/quote]

It's not like Tmac had a supporting cast either, but everyone faulted him for being unable to get them out of the first round in Orlando. But it's ok with Wade?

[MagicMadness]

I wouldn't necessarily say "everyone ripped into" T-Mac...it was just sort of a situation where people faulted him for not leading a team to the second round but figured he would end up eventually doing so in Houston.

For whatever reasons, people still get the impression that one star can carry a team deep into the postseason - which is far from the truth. GOOD role players and veterans do not get enough credit where credit is due. As for Wade, I believe the reason he's getting a pass right now (as if he needed one) is because he has led the Heat out of the first round three times, been in game 7 of an ECF, and also won a championship...

[Induveca]

Shaq won that title..........still amazed it has taken people this long to realize it........

Wade is a turnover machine. Reminds me a lot of Dominique Wilkins quite honestly. All "flash" (no pun intended), little substance.

13 game losing streak? Any superstar in the league supposedly on the level of Wade/Kobe/Duncan/KG shouldn't "lead" their team to 13 straight losses.

[jzmagik]

I wouldn't necessarily say "everyone ripped into" T-Mac...it was just sort of a situation where people faulted him for not leading a team to the second round but figured he would end up eventually doing so in Houston.

For whatever reasons, people still get the impression that one star can carry a team deep into the postseason - which is far from the truth. GOOD role players and veterans do not get enough credit where credit is due. As for Wade, I believe the reason he's getting a pass right now (as if he needed one) is because he has led the Heat out of the first round three times, been in game 7 of an ECF, and also won a championship...

Yes, but Wade's championship team also had a Shaq that was still performing well enough to challenge Yao for best center in the league, not to mention better role players than Tmac had on his Orlando team.

[BBallFreak]

It's not like Tmac had a supporting cast either, but everyone faulted him for being unable to get them out of the first round in Orlando. But it's ok with Wade?

Here's the difference.

1) Wade didn't force his way off of a team because he wanted to be "the man". He co-existed with Odom and then Shaq, while T-Mac left Toronto because he refused to co-exist with Carter.

2) Wade's already accomplished far more than T-Mac, and T-Mac has far more years in this league. T-Mac draws flack not because he missed the playoffs with Orlando, but because he's never been able to get out of the first round.

3) T-Mac's supporting cast is damn good. He's playing with one of the best centers in the league, a great glue guy at small forward, and he still can't get out of the first round. When Wade had a good supporting cast, he's actually done stuff with it, getting to the second round with Brian Grant as his starting center.

4) Wade hasn't actually missed the playoffs yet.

[deknow]

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Here's the difference.

1) Wade didn't force his way off of a team because he wanted to be "the man". He co-existed with Odom and then Shaq, while T-Mac left Toronto because he refused to co-exist with Carter.

2) Wade's already accomplished far more than T-Mac, and T-Mac has far more years in this league.

3) T-Mac's supporting cast is damn good. He's playing with one of the best centers in the league, a great glue guy at small forward, and he still can't get out of the first round. When Wade had a good supporting cast, he's actually done stuff with it, getting to the second round with Brian Grant as his starting center.

4) Wade hasn't actually missed the playoffs yet.

Ya right!

[BBallFreak]

Ya right!

Well, he hasn't yet. You don't trash a guy for missing the post season until he's actually missed the post season. He's going to, IMO, but he hasn't yet...

[deknow]

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Well, he hasn't yet. You don't trash a guy for missing the post season until he's actually missed the post season. He's going to, IMO, but he hasn't yet...

I think its safe to say the Heat have missed the playoffs this year. Whether its now or 2 months from now is inconsequential.

[jzmagik]

Here's the difference.

1) Wade didn't force his way off of a team because he wanted to be "the man". He co-existed with Odom and then Shaq, while T-Mac left Toronto because he refused to co-exist with Carter.

2) Wade's already accomplished far more than T-Mac, and T-Mac has far more years in this league. T-Mac draws flack not because he missed the playoffs with Orlando, but because he's never been able to get out of the first round.

3) T-Mac's supporting cast is damn good. He's playing with one of the best centers in the league, a great glue guy at small forward, and he still can't get out of the first round. When Wade had a good supporting cast, he's actually done stuff with it, getting to the second round with Brian Grant as his starting center.

4) Wade hasn't actually missed the playoffs yet.

1)Really? Do you know for a fact that Tmac left Toronto beacuse he didn't want to play second fiddle to Vince?
2)Yes, Wade has won a championship, but Shaq was also a big part of it. Tmac's best player was Juwan, and in all of the playoff first round matchups he's been in, they were never once favored to make it out of the first round.
3)I am comparing this based on Tmac's Orlando years, although if you really want to get technical, Tmac/Yao have had one of the worst supporting casts in those years they didn't make it out of the first round. Despite this, they took Dallas to 7, and Utah to 7, you remember the game where 4 bench players didn't even score a point in that Utah game? Let's also not forget they play in the West in Houston....
4) They're on their way to the lottery this year, but w/e

[BBallFreak]

I think its safe to say the Heat have missed the playoffs this year. Whether its now or 2 months from now is inconsequential.

Whatever, it's a matter of semantics.

The real issue with T-Mac wasn't what he did in Orlando, it's what he's never done, and that's win. The same cannot be said of Wade...

[deknow]

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Whatever, it's a matter of semantics.

The real issue with T-Mac wasn't what he did in Orlando, it's what he's never done, and that's win. The same cannot be said of Wade...

If I had Shaq I'd be an NBA champion too.

[Flash3]

Well we know what happened with Orlando, how Tmac was never able to "carry" Orlando out of the 1st round, despite not having Grant Hill and having Juwan Howard as his second best player. But Now look at Wade and the Heat, injuries have taken their toll, but it's become apparent that Wade can't carry a team any better than Tmac could. Sure injuries have taken their toll, but despite this, everyone including Heat fans are claiming the Heat are one of the worst teams in the league. My question is, why does Wade get a free-pass from of criticism for getting swept out of the 1st round when they're defending champions, to being lottery bound for a top 3 pick the season after? Keep in mind, everyone absolutely ripped into Tmac for never making it out of the first round in Orlando.

T-Mac and Wade are ENTIRELY different players altogether, one has yet to make it past the 1st round, and the other has helped lead his team to an NBA Title.

W/ever is going on this season is just indescribable for this franchise, management to players, but it can only get better.....

[Flash3]

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If I had Shaq I'd be an NBA champion too.

Penny's probably saying the same thing.....

[jzmagik]

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Penny's probably saying the same thing.....

Hakeem

[BBallFreak]

1)Really? Do you know for a fact that Tmac left Toronto beacuse he didn't want to play second fiddle to Vince?

It's been pretty well documented that the two did not get along, and that that was T-Mac's main reason for leaving.

2)Yes, Wade has won a championship, but Shaq was also a big part of it. Tmac's best player was Juwan, and in all of the playoff first round matchups he's been in, they were never once favored to make it out of the first round.

Miami wasn't favored to beat Dallas, or even Detroit. They did it anyways.

3)I am comparing this based on Tmac's Orlando years,

What I'm telling you though is that that makes no sense at all.

Wade carried his team to a championship. Ask yourself this, if T-Mac had done the same for Orlando, would he have been criticized shortly afterwards for not being able to carry a team? No! Why? BECAUSE HE'D HAVE CARRIED A TEAM!

[Flash3]

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Hakeem

And, that goes EXACTLY against the mindless post I quoted.

Just because you have Shaq, it doesn't guarantee you an NBA title, no matter who you are. If that was true, Shaq would have more than only 4 in his 15+ years in the league.

[BBallFreak]

If I had Shaq I'd be an NBA champion too.

Yeah, because those 13 points really carried us past Dallas, I'll tell you what...