What would you give for Brad Miller?

[shrink]

Sure, shrink wanted to say "the Kings would love to save that $9mil". Uh, wrong. If the team wanted to save money then they never would have signed Mikki Moore, for starters. The TEAM doesn't benefit 1 single bit from saving a few mil over 3 years and to think that that is what's going to be the biggest plus for the Kings doing this deal is just delusional.

Was "delusional" the word of the day on the Kings board, since you and Smills used it in consecutive posts?

Shrink is still going to say it:

"the Kings would love to save that $9mil"

Teams aims change during the year. Heck, they change day-to-day! Aren't the Kings a bit more likely to want cap space after Ron Artest confirmed today that he is probably going to opt out?

Signing Mikki Moore 8 months ago doesn't mean the Kings will NEVER AGAIN want more cap space.

I'd also add that Kenny Thomas' contribution to the team (1.4 PPG, 2.7 RPG in 12 MPG) doesn't keep him in SAC, and the Kings should be happy to move what has been called one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

I'd also add that when you say Battie's contract is "equally bad" as Kenny Thomas, you have to know that's stretching the truth.

[shrink]

why would we want reddick? to have even more of a log jam at SG/SF?

OK, remove Reddick and you're still getting a bargain to the tune of over $32 mil in savings.

EDIT: After reading the last posts, I have to say I'm amazed that the greedy Kings think they can use a good BUT EXPENSIVE and old Brad Miller, cut a third off Kenny Thomas' horrible deal, and STILL think they should get more back.

[shrink]

One last point. Do you really think there are ANY teams in the league that would absorb that much salary, send you that many expirings, for those two expensive players? Orlando REALLY wants to win now, and REALLY has a shortage of big men, so they might pay this cost, but do you think you can trade them for more? In addition, this deal allows you to move Bibby and Artest without having to attach KT, which I think is the dealkiller with the other 28 teams.

signed

Shrink
financial curmudgeon

[rpa]

Was "delusional" the word of the day on the Kings board, since you and Smills used it in consecutive posts?

Great minds think alike? Worst case is we both recognized how bad the statements were

Shrink is still going to say it:

"the Kings would love to save that $9mil"

Just for future reference: it's not $9mil. It's closer to around $6mil as we're already more than halfway through this season. So that basically comes down to saving $3mil a year. Again, in the NBA that is NOT a lot of money.

Teams aims change during the year. Heck, they change day-to-day! Aren't the Kings a bit more likely to want cap space after Ron Artest confirmed today that he is probably going to opt out?

The fact that you're saying that tells me something. Who DIDN'T think that Artest was going to opt out? He may as well have said the sky is blue, fire is hot, ice is cold, etc.

And yes, they'd like cap space. Unfortunately saving just over $2mil per year is not a significant savings as far as cap space is concerned.

Signing Mikki Moore 8 months ago doesn't mean the Kings will NEVER AGAIN want more cap space.

Moore's contract went for 2 1/2 years (3rd year being partially guaranteed). Good job trying to make a 2 1/2 year contract indicative of eternity.

I'd also add that Kenny Thomas' contribution to the team (1.4 PPG, 2.7 RPG in 12 MPG) doesn't keep him in SAC, and the Kings should be happy to move what has been called one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

You do know that Battie hasn't played a single game this year and wasn't exactly "great" last year. As a matter of fact that same Kenny Thomas put up BETTER stats last year than Battie. Make no mistake, Battie's contract is JUST AS BAD as Thomas'


But back to the original point:

Dumping Miller for pure expiring contracts is flat out delusional. Expiring contracts are only going to net you problem players with massive longterm deals. Miller isn't a problem player and his contract isn't massive (a little over $10mil a year for 1 of the better centers in the league isn't "massive"--massive is paying $15mil a year for Larry Hughes)

Given the way that Miller has played this year saying that it's a good deal for the Kings to dump him for expiring contracts and a combined $2mil per year savings is flat out (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

[rpa]

One last point. Do you really think there are ANY teams in the league that would absorb that much salary, send you that many expirings, for those two expensive players? Orlando REALLY wants to win now, and REALLY has a shortage of big men, so they might pay this cost, but do you think you can trade them for more? In addition, this deal allows you to move Bibby and Artest without having to attach KT, which I think is the dealkiller with the other 28 teams.

signed

Shrink
financial curmudgeon

I find it funny that you assume we think that we could dump Kenny Thomas with Miller. I'm sure as hell not saying that. However, it's flat out delusional to think that the Kings would dump Miller for expirings and a swap of bad contracts that is pretty much a push (stop trying to make it seem like $2mil a year is a lot in NBA terms)

[Cammo101]

-= original quote snipped =-



OK, remove Reddick and you're still getting a bargain to the tune of over $32 mil in savings.

EDIT: After reading the last posts, I have to say I'm amazed that the greedy Kings think they can use a good BUT EXPENSIVE and old Brad Miller, cut a third off Kenny Thomas' horrible deal, and STILL think they should get more back.

Welcome to every Kings trade on this board. They are the south of the border Raptor fan.

[pillwenney]

If we were to dump Brad for expirings, don't re-sign Ron, re-sign Beno for the MLE, have Justin Williams at like $1.5million, sign both draft picks (assuming they're kind of high, and combine for $4million in salary) and waive Mikki for the unguaranteed part of his contract, exchanging Kenny for Battie would mean the difference between our cap being at $49.5million and $47million. Assuming the cap is at about $57million, that's the difference between $7.5million and $10million in cap space.

Is that sufficient? I don't know. It kind of depends on who is available. But if we were able to instead just dump Kenny (or dump Battie or SAR after the deal), we would have about $16.5million in cap space. If we don't re-sign Ron, that'll be big. If we do re-sign Ron, we'd have to dump both Battie and SAR to get ample cap space.

I think the most important thing here is the question of how healthy Battie will be next year, and if he'll be anything close to his former self. Because if he's not, he won't be any more movable than Kenny.

[rpa]

If we were to dump Brad for expirings, don't re-sign Ron, re-sign Beno for the MLE, have Justin Williams at like $1.5million, sign both draft picks (assuming they're kind of high, and combine for $4million in salary) and waive Mikki for the unguaranteed part of his contract, exchanging Kenny for Battie would mean the difference between our cap being at $49.5million and $47million. Assuming the cap is at about $57million, that's the difference between $7.5million and $10million in cap space.

You forgot dump Bibby for pure expirings.

Also, the difference isn't much because the Kings still couldn't offer a max deal which also means they couldn't offer enough to make a team like the Hawks or Bobcats think twice before matching offer sheets (for Josh Smith or Okafor).

[KF10]

Besides why are we trading Miller? IMO he's the MOST favorable player with the big contracts that we have...I keep Miller before Bibby/Artest/K9 and etc....

We are not dumping Miller just for pure salary...It's like saying expirings for Camby. Well, they are saving 9 million dollars and etc....

[BMiller52]

Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas

FOR

JJ Reddick, Tony Battie, Carlos Arroyo, Pat Garrity

That works IMO... Magic get their starting center... Kings dump Kenny Thomas who they HATE and get a young guy and expirings

When I broke this trade down, I really liked this trade.

Orlando is in win-now mode, and since Battie is out with injury, his salary is a big hole in their production. The Magic are paying Battie $17.1 mil, but are only getting two seasons of production, so he effectively costs $8.6 mil/year. That's over-priced.

Kenny Thomas gets paid $26 mil for three years, or $8.7 mil. That's over-priced too, and by a very similar value.

So are Thomas and Battie about equal? Actually, since each team is on a different economic path, the other team's player is more valuable for each.

ORL desperately needs production, now. They have part of their salary cap locked up in a player that produced nothing. Since they value the production of all three years, Kenny Thomas makes more sense. He'd get minutes in Orlando.

SAC, if this is the first move in a rebuilding plan, has no need for production. They aren't on an "average production" valuation, but a "total dollars" valuation. Both Thomas and Battie are three year deals, but Battie is $9 mil cheaper, so Battie makes more sense for them.

Great start for a deal, creating wiggle room for value on both sides. If the rest of the deal can break even, it should be successful. Brad Miller's large buy productive contract for non productive expirings and a prospect? Its a $20 mil savings for SAC, and a production boost for ORL. This again is a win/win for both teams, who have very different goals.

Nice trade WizardsWorld -- a great fit for both teams.

The only thing I don't like really is Redick, he has no purpose here. Anyone else we could get instead of him? He would never play behind Martin/Garcia/Salmons.

[ecuhus1981]

The Nets' standing offer (Miller for Collins, Magloire and a future 1st) seems to make more sense than the ORL deal. But their ability to take on KT for Battie (who may even be able to play for the Magic in this year's playoffs) is a wrinkle the Nets may not match.

[BMiller52]

The Nets' standing offer (Miller for Collins, Magloire and a future 1st) seems to make more sense than the ORL deal. But their ability to take on KT for Battie (who may even be able to play for the Magic in this year's playoffs) is a wrinkle the Nets may not match.

I might rather do that because Petrie could probably draft a decent play with the pick.

[pillwenney]

-= original quote snipped =-



You forgot dump Bibby for pure expirings.

Well dumping Mike would be sort of irrelevant because he'd be gone by the offseason I'm referring to anyway.

Besides why are we trading Miller? IMO he's the MOST favorable player with the big contracts that we have...I keep Miller before Bibby/Artest/K9 and etc....

We are not dumping Miller just for pure salary...It's like saying expirings for Camby. Well, they are saving 9 million dollars and etc....

If we want any kind of significant cap space by the 09 offseason, Brad's contract absolutely must be off the books--particularly if we're looking to re-sign Beno this summer.

Assuming we don't re-sign Ron, he and Mike will both be gone by then anyway.

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



If we want any kind of significant cap space by the 09 offseason, Brad's contract absolutely must be off the books--particularly if we're looking to re-sign Beno this summer.

Assuming we don't re-sign Ron, he and Mike will both be gone by then anyway.

Not necessary IMO... I mean that we could have Miller's long deal here if we traded all the other long deal for expirings i.e. Bibby/Artest/K9 and etc... We could at least have ONE long deal during the rebuilding phase...Likely it will be Miller IMO...

[Wolverine]

Jazz offer Harpring, Hart, Collins & Price
for Miller & Udrih?????

[Rugged Ron Ron]

Jazz offer Harpring, Hart, Collins & Price
for Miller & Udrih?????

LOL. No way

[BMiller52]

Jazz offer Harpring, Hart, Collins & Price
for Miller & Udrih?????

Are you freaking kidding me? We had Hart and Price and we didn't want either of them. No need for Harpring or Collins either.

kf10: We do have a long contract, we had Martin.

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



Are you freaking kidding me? We had Hart and Price and we didn't want either of them. No need for Harpring or Collins either.

kf10: We do have a long contract, we had Martin.

Crap. I forgot about his extension. Well, that messed up my thinking process of the rebuilding phase then...

[loserX]

-= original quote snipped =-



Are you freaking kidding me? We had Hart and Price and we didn't want either of them. No need for Harpring or Collins either.

kf10: We do have a long contract, we had Martin.

Agreed, pretty awful for Sacramento. As much as I like Brad Miller though, I don't see the point of acquiring him for Utah even if we did have the pieces (which I'm pretty sure we don't)...we need a high-energy interior defender, and those aren't his strengths.

[Wolverine]

What about Harp, Millsap & Collins?