bargnani's new position

[bill russell]

Raptors is clearly developing Bargnani in the wrong way. If we look at Nowitzki's first few years, he was never forced to play at center position. Dallas gave a lot spaces to develop him as a player allowing him to shoot 3s and work on his post move slowly. What Mitchell is doing now does not work on Bargnani at all since he showed no motivation playing center because he has no center skills at all.

It's almost cruel to develop a guy in a new position in mid-season. I suppose you want to give him as much game experience as possible but there's so little time to practice, so little time to digest experience and review performances and work on problems. If the Raps knew they were going to put him in at five this year, they should have spent the summer working on it. The national teams are a huge distraction.

[reck0n3r]

Jamario shoot be benched after every single 3 he takes (he's shooting like 25-26%) and takes like 2 three's every game.

The funny thing is that mitchell once said "we all know jamario can shoot the ball, but that's not what we need from him"

rriiight.

[Khan]

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It's almost cruel to develop a guy in a new position in mid-season. I suppose you want to give him as much game experience as possible but there's so little time to practice, so little time to digest experience and review performances and work on problems. If the Raps knew they were going to put him in at five this year, they should have spent the summer working on it. The national teams are a huge distraction.

Actually, Raptors said after last season that they would play Bargnani at center this season. The only problem is Bargnani never had any center skills. The past summer, like you said, he didn't work on any center moves. As we can see this season, how dumb he is on the court. It is just sad... I just don't think we should play him at five this season, starting or not.

[reck0n3r]

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Actually, Raptors said after last season that they would play Bargnani at center this season. The only problem is Bargnani never had any center skills. The past summer, like you said, he didn't work on any center moves. As we can see this season, how dumb he is on the court. It is just sad... I just don't think we should play him at five this season, starting or not.

Actually that's a valid point. I think they should consider letting him get comfortable playing in the league first before they try making him learn to play the 5. I think the transition would come a lot more easily after he's had a few years under his belt...or pick and choose which games they can afford to have him play like a true 5.

[jeffya2]

another excuse for his poor play. Just because your playing a new position doesn't mean you should forget how to shoot

I disagree. Most good shooters {especially 3 pt shooters} have a couple of spots they are comfortable at. I believe it's Calderon who puts a piece of tape on the floor before every game. Every time Barg's catches it now in "his spot" he hesitates but then puts it on the floor. It's very clear that he has been told if you want PT you MUST put it on the floor. He just looks very conflicted. BTW he is still a killer in pre game warm ups if you get to the ACC
I think the various opinions on Barg's come from the people that see his warm up talent vs his game talent this year vs last year

[Uros Slowcar]

The C/PF position is very blurred, Bargnani doesn't always play C when hes out there, Bosh/Humphries play it also (I am not sure where to find the stats for this, basketball reference?). Basically, he is not being asked by Sam to be a traditional low post C. But he IS being asked to play with energy, rebound, defend, avoid clumsy mistakes, and make a damn shot. (hes shooting 37%FG) He is NOT doing this and thats why he sits on the bench. Its all about hustle and energy, not the position he plays. He has the size to guard other C.

[Khan]

The C/PF position is very blurred, Bargnani doesn't always play C when hes out there, Bosh/Humphries play it also (I am not sure where to find the stats for this, basketball reference?). Basically, he is not being asked by Sam to be a traditional low post C. But he IS being asked to play with energy, rebound, defend, avoid clumsy mistakes, and make a damn shot. (hes shooting 37%FG) He is NOT doing this and thats why he sits on the bench. Its all about hustle and energy, not the position he plays. He has the size to guard other C.

I believe he is not used to the way he is asked to play this season. I don't think you should expect any 2nd year player to shoot well when they are not comfortable playing on the court. He never showed too much hustle/energy from his rookie year, and even though he has the size to guard a C, he doesn't have the skill to stop a C. It is hard to think of Bargnani to play like Varejao, a hustle/energy player.

[bill russell]

The C/PF position is very blurred, Bargnani doesn't always play C when hes out there, Bosh/Humphries play it also (I am not sure where to find the stats for this, basketball reference?). Basically, he is not being asked by Sam to be a traditional low post C. But he IS being asked to play with energy, rebound, defend, avoid clumsy mistakes, and make a damn shot. (hes shooting 37%FG) He is NOT doing this and thats why he sits on the bench. Its all about hustle and energy, not the position he plays. He has the size to guard other C.

that 37% is the most telling of all barg's stats. the alarming thing isn't that he's down from last year but that he's a five shooting under 40%. Fives are supposed to thrive on dunks and put backs and chip shots. he just has no idea yet how to get off his shot under the rim. when he does dunk, it's almost always on an open drive.
It comes down to this: the raptors have thrown him in the deep end and told him to swim as a five. he'll either learn the position or drown. right now the only sign that he's not drowning is his defense. he's had some solid minutes guarding opposing bigs under the rim.

[emfive]

another excuse for his poor play. Just because your playing a new position doesn't mean you should forget how to shoot

They had no concerns about his shooting. However after some extensive coaching help they now do?

[99 Problems]

I wonder what Bargs's mindset is? Is he honestly applying himself and trying, or is he half-assing and hoping they give up this experiment so he can go back to floating around the perimeter? Thats what it looks like to me... Its hard to guess his body language because he always has that same face on with his mouth hanging open...


If a fiery and tough player motivator coach like Smitch can't get through to him, I don't think he'll ever change.... Lets hope whatever the coaching staff is trying to do will work...

[Raps-ody]

I've been thinking about this too. Maybe the big mistake wasn't drafting Bargnani, but it was drafting him thinking we could re-make him into something new ...something he's never been, and we're trying to turn him into this new thing in the toughest place in the world to do it.

Having said that, I wish I could say that he appears to at least be trying hard, but this uninformed observer thinks maybe he's depressed. That stoic expression is awfully hard to read.

[Darrick Martin]

Jamario shoot be benched after every single 3 he takes (he's shooting like 25-26%) and takes like 2 three's every game.

The funny thing is that mitchell once said "we all know jamario can shoot the ball, but that's not what we need from him"

rriiight.

Ok, so your thinking Delfino or JK would do a better job at the SF? LOL

The reason why Moon shoots 3's because he is usually the last guy to receive the ball with the clock running down hence his desperation 3's.

[Darrick Martin]

Don't worry guys, Barg's basketball IQ is off the charts as he'll rebound in no time!!!!

[orangutooth]

if people don't want him to play c, they should be happy with him coming off the bench. he was garbage off the bench with the true c rasho and was no good starting as the center.

i think all it really shows is that he is not fit for this team. colangelo drafted this guy because he wanted suns east and in the end, we're just not that.

[reck0n3r]

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Ok, so your thinking Delfino or JK would do a better job at the SF? LOL

The reason why Moon shoots 3's because he is usually the last guy to receive the ball with the clock running down hence his desperation 3's.

Actually he takes 3's when he feels like taking a damn 3.

He's taken 53 of them so far. Thats quite a few for someone who only takes them to beat the shot clock, don't you think? Especially when he's shooting only 25-26% or whatever it is.

And where the hell did I say anything about delfino/JK starting over him? I just said he takes too many three's and smitch does nothing about it. In comparison, Kapono has taken 95 of them and that's his bread and butter shot, where he's shooting over 50% from.

People want to nitpick, so I'll nitpick.

For what it's worth, I actually love having jamario in the starting lineup.

[jaymeister15]

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Actually he takes 3's when he feels like taking a damn 3.

He's taken 53 of them so far. Thats quite a few for someone who only takes them to beat the shot clock, don't you think? Especially when he's shooting only 25-26% or whatever it is.

And where the hell did I say anything about delfino/JK starting over him? I just said he takes too many three's and smitch does nothing about it. In comparison, Kapono has taken 95 of them and that's his bread and butter shot, where he's shooting over 50% from.

People want to nitpick, so I'll nitpick.

For what it's worth, I actually love having jamario in the starting lineup.

The difference between Moon and Bargs is that Moon has a positive impact on the team while he's on the floor (for the most part)....but, Bargs has a negative one a lot of the time. Bargs doesn't get benched because he takes and misses a three or two, he gets benched because he isn't helping the team at all.

[pierrot]

Jamario shoot be benched after every single 3 he takes (he's shooting like 25-26%) and takes like 2 three's every game.

This probably deserves a seperate thread, but ....

is it really Moon's fault that his role on the offence is to stand behind the three point line? Obviously teams are going to leave him open, and obviously the ball is going to tend to come to him as the open man, so how can he avoid taking that shot? He doesn't have the handles to drive into a defender who is laying off of him. That's a turnover waiting to happen.

The coaches need to modify their plays to take into account his shooting range, which is about 17 feet at the outside as far as I can tell.

[kem416]

That stoic look on his face is the major reason why we are all debating this. We don't know what is going on in his head.

I watch Bargs exclusively during both O and D sets and man he is frustrating.
- He boxes out until the shot goes up, then he takes a step back so that his man has positioning on him. Weird to say the least.
- His teammates hardly acknowledge him. If players are talking, hi-5's, etc Bargs is out of the loop 80% of the time.

[bill russell]

right on cue, the Sun addresses Bargnani's positional problem. http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basket ... 4-sun.html

it is clear that colangelo is determined to keep Bargs at center:

"General manager Bryan Colangelo said that the Raptors have discussed the idea of bringing in a coach to specifically help Bargnani get used to, and learn the nuances of, playing the centre position. The 7-foot Italian was moved to centre this season after a fine rookie campaign last year at forward.

The organization loves the idea of Bargnani and all-star power forward Chris Bosh starting together in the frontcourt, which would cause opposition teams all sorts of matchup problems if each was on top of his game. And while Bosh is in all-star form once again, the 22-year-old Bargnani hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain."

They are bringing in a coach to help him learn the position which, while about six-months overdue, is a good thing, I'd say.

[Cassius]

If Bargnani were 6'7'', we'd be just as disappointed and he'd look a lot like Vince Carter in his last years here.

He doesn't care and doesn't try.

What I hate is that, although he's not playing like a defensive force in the middle, he's not even a complete player anywhere else on the floor.

It's like having a 6-1, 240 pound halfback that won't run inside. You'd only forgive it if that guy was lights out in the passing, blocking and outside game.

Andrea is playing like crap in every facet.