Wade in Tmac's Orlando situation

[SlickWilly8]

-= original quote snipped =-



It's not like Tmac had a supporting cast either, but everyone faulted him for being unable to get them out of the first round in Orlando. But it's ok with Wade?

Ummmm......Wade has a ring?

[Griever24]

We know he can do it with a good cast around him and hof's but what about on a bad team ? KG has showed it in good and bad teams .. AI has showed it in good and bad teams .. Kobe showed it on his old good squad and these past years with his new bad squad ...

Wade is not showing it .. though it is a young Career i never believed he had it in the first place with all the Free-throw attempts and ridiculous calls he recieved ... which is what has led me to believe he is over-rated sometimes

[Harry Heinous]

We know he can do it with a good cast around him and hof's but what about on a bad team ? KG has showed it in good and bad teams .. AI has showed it in good and bad teams .. Kobe showed it on his old good squad and these past years with his new bad squad ...

Wade is not showing it .. though it is a young Career i never believed he had it in the first place with all the Free-throw attempts and ridiculous calls he recieved ... which is what has led me to believe he is over-rated sometimes

The Heat were 1-13 before Wade came back this year.

And don't you think that maybe, just maybe it might be that Wade is just not himself right now because of injuries? Because I do, and I have watched every Heat game this year. Have you?

[Harry Heinous]

We know he can do it with a good cast around him and hof's but what about on a bad team ? KG has showed it in good and bad teams .. AI has showed it in good and bad teams .. Kobe showed it on his old good squad and these past years with his new bad squad ...

Wade is not showing it .. though it is a young Career i never believed he had it in the first place with all the Free-throw attempts and ridiculous calls he recieved ... which is what has led me to believe he is over-rated sometimes

Be warned, I'm using your logic: Why couldn't Kobe do it in 03-04 with 4 hofs on his team?

[circushots]

-= original quote snipped =-



That is complete and utter bull. You don't do 180s flying into traffic, trying to slam the ball down "hobbled". You don't dribble through traffic like a madman breaking ankles "hobbled".

The guy is fine. You're just making excuses. Things are simple in Miami right now. Wade can't carry a team. Even if he was "hobbled", the dominant superstar you guys are describing as Wade should be able to squeak out 2-3 wins in a 13 game stretch (14 as of tomorrow when LeBron James and his cast of misfits win).

Seriously, look back at history. Do you think the Iverson of 2001/2002 or the LeBron of last year run this same Miami squad to 13 straight losses? You give Wade the credit for the championship, so he should take the blame for the losses no? Or would you like to come to my more logical side, the side i've maintained all along as a lifetime NBA fan and admit Shaq's presence decides games. His dominant presence of 2 years ago drove Miami over the top and straight to the ring. Now that he's old, basically finished as a dominant player......so are the Heat.

Be realistic. You put Arenas/Redd/T-Mac/Kobe/Pierce/Anthony/Iverson alongside Shaq two years ago and they make the Finals as well. Take Shaq off the team and NONE of them make it........

Watch a game for me, will you? Then come back and tell me that the man is healthy. Because if you're not even going to agree that he's injured, while even others who argue against me can at least admit that he is, then there's no point in having this conversation. Look, the point is that this team even with a healthy Wade is not going to make huge noise in the standings or playoffs; their roster is awful. But to put the blame on a player who is out there playing injured is plain ignorant. And I'm not even putting Wade up against Tmac right now, because his roster back then was god awful too.

As a "lifetime NBA fan", how can you even suggest that the players you listed would get to the finals with Shaq? Are you seriously with a straight face suggesting that Michael freaking Redd would be enough to make the Heat a contender? And meanwhile have the gall to tell us to "be realistic"?

Wait, I'm starting to think that you didn't even watch the finals two years ago. You couldn't have, because even the biggest Wade hater would agree that it was primarily his play which won them the chip. (I can't believe I even have to state this explicitly) Newsflash, Shaq was already old two years ago. He was certainly a better playerthan he is today, but no one would confuse him with an even closer to prime Shaq. There were many crucial junctures in games where Riley played Zo as he was much more effective in there. No one is denying that Shaq demands attention, but to suggest that he was the primary focus of the defense is ridiculous.

Two problems here. People have unbelievably short memories, and even worse people go back into time and distort the facts to please themselves.

[Griever24]

-= original quote snipped =-



The Heat were 1-13 before Wade came back this year.

And don't you think that maybe, just maybe it might be that Wade is just not himself right now because of injuries? Because I do, and I have watched every Heat game this year. Have you?

like i mentioned before .. good teams bad teams .. and im not totally discrediting Wade .. like hes a sasha vujacic or something i believe at best Wade is All-Star level and he has contribute greatly but not Superstar or Great ...

and like i said about injuries All Great players have to play through it but they dont let it slip this badly especially if they could have a 2nd option who demands a double .. (yes hes been out too but even though hes come back played well and before when he was seeing all the doubles Wade wasnt stepping up) i have saw Heat games this year and yes that by no means is a good squad but when you look at them on papaer they shouldnt be this bad ..

Enough of this Last time i post in this thread .. we are gonna go in circles and no one is gonna wanna change their opinion so why argue ? im done .. wish him the best and OT your Avy seems pretty funny where was that ?

[KDRE]

-= original quote snipped =-



Like I said...his longest losing streak is 8. Lebron is 7 and Wade is 12 and counting.

I don't think any of them are good to have but come on. Putting a teams onus of winning games on one player is ridiculous, especially in a streak situation.


Tmac had a worse supporting cast in Orl and it isnt fair to compare Wade's current situation to that one as they just aren't the same.

All this proves is something we already know. No one player can win it all, all by himself. This is a team game and should be called accordingly.

[Griever24]

-= original quote snipped =-



Be warned, I'm using your logic: Why couldn't Kobe do it in 03-04 with 4 hofs on his team?

he did it three times before that and what can i say Detroit outplayed us and Kobe tried to take over to much that series im not gonna sugar coat it ...

04-05 was horrible but injuries to Odom and Coach leaving .. no excuse right ? your right but he didnt let 13 slip .. and he bounced back and showed why he is arguebly the best or most talented the next 2 years with virtually no one .. Kwame luke and smush were starters is that enough .. but this is not about Kobe so dont try to change

[Harry Heinous]

-= original quote snipped =-



he did it three times before that and what can i say Detroit outplayed us and Kobe tried to take over to much that series im not gonna sugar coat it ...

04-05 was horrible but injuries to Odom and Coach leaving .. no excuse right ? your right but he didnt let 13 slip .. and he bounced back and showed why he is arguebly the best or most talented the next 2 years with virtually no one .. Kwame luke and smush were starters is that enough .. but this is not about Kobe so dont try to change

I agree with you. Injuries do **** things up. Wade has had 4 great years and much success up until now. Let's see if he can bounce back before you completely right him off.

[Harry Heinous]

OT your Avy seems pretty funny where was that ?

Screech's Dirty Sanchez sextape

[Harry Heinous]

-= original quote snipped =-



Watch a game for me, will you? Then come back and tell me that the man is healthy. Because if you're not even going to agree that he's injured, while even others who argue against me can at least admit that he is, then there's no point in having this conversation. Look, the point is that this team even with a healthy Wade is not going to make huge noise in the standings or playoffs; their roster is awful. But to put the blame on a player who is out there playing injured is plain ignorant. And I'm not even putting Wade up against Tmac right now, because his roster back then was god awful too.

As a "lifetime NBA fan", how can you even suggest that the players you listed would get to the finals with Shaq? Are you seriously with a straight face suggesting that Michael freaking Redd would be enough to make the Heat a contender? And meanwhile have the gall to tell us to "be realistic"?

Wait, I'm starting to think that you didn't even watch the finals two years ago. You couldn't have, because even the biggest Wade hater would agree that it was primarily his play which won them the chip. (I can't believe I even have to state this explicitly) Newsflash, Shaq was already old two years ago. He was certainly a better playerthan he is today, but no one would confuse him with an even closer to prime Shaq. There were many crucial junctures in games where Riley played Zo as he was much more effective in there. No one is denying that Shaq demands attention, but to suggest that he was the primary focus of the defense is ridiculous.

Two problems here. People have unbelievably short memories, and even worse people go back into time and distort the facts to please themselves.

[/thread]

[Cevap]

the thing about the NBA is that the best player gets the most praise when the team wins and the most criticism when the team loses. Heat fans were always quick on the draw, when comparing wade to other players, by mentioning his 40 ppg in the finals. Well now when his team is not doing well, other fans will come and bring this rough stretch up whenever they have a chance. Learn to deal with it heat fans, it's just the way this board works

[Flash3]

the thing about the NBA is that the best player gets the most praise when the team wins and the most criticism when the team loses. Heat fans were always quick on the draw, when comparing wade to other players, by mentioning his 40 ppg in the finals. Well now when his team is not doing well, other fans will come and bring this rough stretch up whenever they have a chance. Learn to deal with it heat fans, it's just the way this board works

Criticism is fine, I don't think you're finding anyone here saying otherwise given the situation.

But, when you have people using mind-numbingly (Please Use More Appropriate Word) reasons to put a player down, that's another story altogether.

[xcomputerman]

Typical RealGM thread. Lots of mindless bashing, every poster feels like he much discredit player X in order to give love for his favorite player Y.

It's funny how hypocritical Wade fans have suddenly become now that someone brought up the fact that he is losing just like McGrady was back in Orlando. I'm a fan of both players myself, and I have all the respect in the world for Wade after his finals performance and also hearing of the way he comports himself off-court. But basketball is a team sport, and single superstars by themselves don't win titles. The 2006 Miami team caught lightning in a bottle, with Shaq still his dominating self, a strong supporting cast and championship-type defense. The credit goes to the entire team.

One could even bring Kobe up in this situation. Look at the past few years - ever since he and Shaq were separated he hasn't been able to "carry" his team past the first round either. But of course, you won't see people making such ridiculous statements as "Kobe is not a superstar" now, would you?

It's the superstar's burden to do as much as he can to carry his team to glory. But they never, ever succeed by doing it alone. In McGrady's case, he just has never been fortunate enough to have good enough teammates around him to enjoy playoff success. The others have seen their stock fall as their teams fell apart. If you want to see some numbers that'll make your head spin, check out David Berri's blog at WagesOfWins (dberri.wordpress.com) where he compares Bryant and McGrady's careers and concludes that while Bryant has been a slightly better scorer, he has had a far superior supporting cast and that if they were to theoretically switch teammates, McGrady would have had even greater success.

I'm not going to make a case for any one player over the other. McGrady, Bryant and Wade are great players in their own right. But in a league that loves to glorify individual accomplishment, it is still the best teams that win.

[Griever24]

Typical RealGM thread. Lots of mindless bashing, every poster feels like he much discredit player X in order to give love for his favorite player Y.

It's funny how hypocritical Wade fans have suddenly become now that someone brought up the fact that he is losing just like McGrady was back in Orlando. I'm a fan of both players myself, and I have all the respect in the world for Wade after his finals performance and also hearing of the way he comports himself off-court. But basketball is a team sport, and single superstars by themselves don't win titles. The 2006 Miami team caught lightning in a bottle, with Shaq still his dominating self, a strong supporting cast and championship-type defense. The credit goes to the entire team.

One could even bring Kobe up in this situation. Look at the past few years - ever since he and Shaq were separated he hasn't been able to "carry" his team past the first round either. But of course, you won't see people making such ridiculous statements as "Kobe is not a superstar" now, would you?

It's the superstar's burden to do as much as he can to carry his team to glory. But they never, ever succeed by doing it alone. In McGrady's case, he just has never been fortunate enough to have good enough teammates around him to enjoy playoff success. The others have seen their stock fall as their teams fell apart. If you want to see some numbers that'll make your head spin, check out David Berri's blog at WagesOfWins (dberri.wordpress.com) where he compares Bryant and McGrady's careers and concludes that while Bryant has been a slightly better scorer, he has had a far superior supporting cast and that if they were to theoretically switch teammates, McGrady would have had even greater success.

I'm not going to make a case for any one player over the other. McGrady, Bryant and Wade are great players in their own right. But in a league that loves to glorify individual accomplishment, it is still the best teams that win.

Nice point but i dont buy it .. Kobe has not lead his team to a Chip since Shaq has left true but none has been his fault he was scoring 45 and 50 on a nightly Basis just to get his team some wins .. though it may not have got him any awards he really "Carried" a team .. He Carried them to the playoffs not to mention almost upset the suns in this tough Western Conference

Going by your logic why dont we put Kobe on T Mac's team that seems to do well without him ? Guarente you they contend for the chip or take it all the way .. Heck even put Wade on T Macs team and they are probaly instand Contenders .. at least wade will play through injuries.

T Mac is always injured and that is what has plagued his Career

[Griever24]

And oh yeah once again with the "What if's"

seriously they are way over used How about put wade on Jordans Bulls or LeBron on this Currrent Celtic Squad ...

They shouldnt be over exaggerated to the point where we take huge key components to Championship squads and DisCredit them just because you think someone else could have done the same or better in that situation

[xcomputerman]

-= original quote snipped =-
He Carried them to the playoffs not to mention almost upset the suns in this tough Western Conference

I think this one speaks for itself.

Going by your logic why dont we put Kobe on T Mac's team that seems to do well without him ? Guarente you they contend for the chip or take it all the way .. Heck even put Wade on T Macs team and they are probaly instand Contenders ..

Now you're just throwing in random BS you've been reading around the "internets". The Rockets in the past have been downright *horrible* whenever T-Mac is out. You really want to make the argument that because Adelman finally figured out how to generate some offense without using McGrady and took advantage of a weak schedule, they're now better off without him? LOL.

at least wade will play through injuries.

This one takes the cake. What did Wade playing through injury earn him last year? A first round thrashing by the Bulls and an aggravated shoulder injury. And here's what you didn't know: T-Mac attempted to return earlier before the knee was fully healed, and he aggravated the injury during a game against Detroit. As a result he was out for almost three more weeks and could barely move around in his first practice.

Like I said, you don't have to bash one player just to make yourself feel better. Try to exercise your brain for once and look at the bigger picture.

[Griever24]

im not bashing one player to make myself feel better .. and i find that Contradicting when you bashed Kobe to make yourself feel better for t Mac not having any rings

(When T Mac played through injury) That earned T Mac a worst Injury but thats T Mac .. Thats why he is not mentioned amongst the greats cause as i have mentioned before greats manage through the injuries or heal it up quickly ..

And how is that squad so "Horrible" Great Role players In Battier, james, Alston, Bonzi, And Scola. great superstar C in Yao maybe 2nd in the league next to Howard and your telling me T Mac cant win or even get out the first round with that ?

[Datruth345]

i can't believe heat fans totally dismissing the Shaq factor..that is ridiculous

...in the first few pages at least i didn't read all 17

[Flash3]

i can't believe heat fans totally dismissing the Shaq factor..that is ridiculous

...in the first few pages at least i didn't read all 17

You totally dismissed the thoughts, and therefore made your own and are therefore wrong for it. -- There's no one individual totally dismissing Shaq as a key cog in the Heat's success (or demise).

Try again.