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Portland Trailblazers Vs. Orlando Magic

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Post#121 » by Pinot love » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:21 am

mojomarc wrote:Why in the bloody heck can't we put that pressure on Oden? He came into the draft as the best big man prospect since Tim Duncan.


In the first season, the time frame to which I referred, we shouldn't. He's young at mind and heart. The risk of messing his knee up more is to great. As he gains more experience, yes. But, even at this time we should have another option for low post, non-Aldridge fade-away scoring. That is unless Aldridge grows some cajones and starts taking the ball to the rack.
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Post#122 » by Pinot love » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:28 am

mojomarc, something your grossly overlooking is the fact that when Tim Duncan came in to the league, almost none of that pressure was put on him. He was brought in slowly and pressure free via the Admiral. We need to be careful, cautions and protective, it's worth it. We also need a banger to protect the possibly fragile Roy and Outlaw.
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Post#123 » by Wizenheimer » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:33 am

Pinot love wrote:mojomarc, something your grossly overlooking is the fact that when Tim Duncan came in to the league, almost none of that pressure was put on him. He was brought in slowly and pressure free via the Admiral. We need to be careful, cautions and protective, it's worth it. We also need a banger to protect the possibly fragile Roy and Outlaw.


how does a banger 'protect' them...with an Ouzi?
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Post#124 » by Pinot love » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:46 am

Wizenheimer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



how does a banger 'protect' them...with an Ouzi?


I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out yourself. If a team has no fear of retribution, legal or not, what's going to prevent it from being rough with Roy, legally or illegally, and get him out of games / have an early exit to his career.
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Post#125 » by J~Rush » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:54 am

Pinot love wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out yourself. If a team has no fear of retribution, legal or not, who's going to prevent it from being rough with Roy, legally or illegally, and get him out of games / have an early exit to his career.


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Post#126 » by Pinot love » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:00 am

Oh god, we're truly f'd now :lol:

O'donnell refused to shake hands with Clyde Drexler at tipoff. Then he tossed Drexler in the first quarter after calling a touch foul before slapping the guard with two quick technicals.
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Post#127 » by mojomarc » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:32 am

Pinot love wrote:mojomarc, something your grossly overlooking is the fact that when Tim Duncan came in to the league, almost none of that pressure was put on him. He was brought in slowly and pressure free via the Admiral. We need to be careful, cautions and protective, it's worth it. We also need a banger to protect the possibly fragile Roy and Outlaw.


You're kidding, right? Duncan was brought in when a lot of folks were thinking Robinson was done. They had gone 20-62 the year before without him, and since he was 32 there were more than a few folks who were saying that if Duncan didn't perform the Spurs were done as contenders. That's why Duncan played 39.1 minutes per game, compared to only 33 for DRob (in fewer games). Also, Duncan was relied upon as the primary rebounder most of the time and was given the tougher defensive assignments. He wasn't coddled at all, but rather thrown into the fire.

But let's assume that DRob being in there made it easier for him--isn't that what Roy and Aldridge will do for Oden? Are you suggesting that Oden is softer than Duncan was or that Roy and Aldridge aren't enough, even after this season, to draw the attention of teams' defenses?

Anyway--my comment that he was the best prospect since Duncan doesn't mean I was comparing their situation, although I suppose our cover is actually better than what San Antonio had when Duncan arrived.

Still, your arguments are not persuasive to me. We have the right as fans to expect a lot out of Oden, and we shouldn't be making excuses for him. No matter how you want to slice it, he was brought in to win championships, and if he doesn't perform then we should be critical. In the end, though, I don't think we put any pressure on Greg that he doesn't put on himself. He's that kind of guy. Regardless, I'm stil 100% against the idea that we shouldn't say things like "Oden will solve our defensive issues" if we believe it because it is putting undue pressure on him. That's just silly IMO.
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Post#128 » by MoGrAdY » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:41 am

Billy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Flicking the ball into Przybilla's stomach/crotch area and giving the stare down. Don't have a problem with the stare down (hell Portland needs some of that), but the whole ball to the fella's was pretty lame.

Of course, I'm not fancy dancy with a DVR so I can't rewind. Might have looked worse live than it really was. As I said, uncharacteristic of Howard.



I actually loved that. All the time we got dudes crawling over dwight and gettin away with it. If he wants to be an idiot and flop Dwight should dunk on him and toss the ball at him. Ecspecially after seeing a few ppl hoping he got injured, thats horrible. I jus wanted to say good game, love your young squad. The funny thing is you dont even have Greg freakin Oden back haha. And also just know that most of the posters on the Magic board would not have used that title, that was lame. I was pretty nervous bout the game cus you guys been eatin the league. Heres to seein you guys in the Finals against us the next decade :D
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Post#129 » by Pinot love » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:18 am

mojomarc wrote:
pinot wrote:mojomarc, something your grossly overlooking is the fact that when Tim Duncan came in to the league, almost none of that pressure was put on him. He was brought in slowly and pressure free via the Admiral. We need to be careful, cautions and protective, it's worth it. We also need a banger to protect the possibly fragile Roy and Outlaw.


You're kidding, right?

No. But you probably don't understand my use of relativity or context. In a way this is my own failing.

David Robinson is one of the greatest basketball players of all-time. Arguably one of the 25 most valuable. There is something to be said for the value of a quick, fast, 7'1" banger capable of shotting 56% from the floor and rebounding 18+ percent of possible rebounds while on the court. Not to mention his defensive prowess. 32-years-old for such a primely conditioned athlete was pretty likely if you like at the players like him.


Duncan was brought in when a lot of folks were thinking Robinson was done. They had gone 20-62 the year before without him, and since he was 32 there were more than a few folks who were saying that if Duncan didn't perform the Spurs were done as contenders. That's why Duncan played 39.1 minutes per game, compared to only 33 for DRob (in fewer games). Also, Duncan was relied upon as the primary rebounder most of the time and was given the tougher defensive assignments. He wasn't coddled at all, but rather thrown into the fire.

You believe differently from what I've heard from those two players mouth if you don't believe Robinson didn't have a significant affect on the quality of Tim Duncan's play. For a second imagine the effect of a tenured vet playing side by side with Oden. The last player to end his career with one comparable to Robinson's is Hakeem.

While players like these played less total minutes near this age, they played the most important ones and had the most impact. We can go over our recollections of these seasons all we want. A facts I can point to is usage rate (if you're not familiar it's the percentage of the time a player shoots, gets fouled for shots, turns it over or assists. This doesn't account for that secondary pass to Rick James Jones (BIATCH!) or Martell on the wing we have often seen.) Robinson's was significantly higher, as was his PER, offensive rating and win shares above average. Defensively Duncan had more defensive win shares (presumably because of minutes versus weaker competition), while Robinson's was metrically better. Robinson grabbed a higher percentage of available rebounds, scored more points - blocked more shots - turned it over less - assisted more - shot nearly twice as many free throws - per minute than Duncan. The next season wasn't much different, with Duncan making slight gains.

All this wouldn't mean anything to me if I didn't see and believe the effect Robinson had on the game, his team and Tim Duncan. He was an American leader and team leader, proven to have the capability to do so. Duncan become a little more than most anyone expect both because of the presence of David Robinson and his willingness to learn from him.


But let's assume that DRob being in there made it easier for him--isn't that what Roy and Aldridge will do for Oden? Are you suggesting that Oden is softer than Duncan was or that Roy and Aldridge aren't enough, even after this season, to draw the attention of teams' defenses?

I'm suggesting the effect of an experienced and effective teacher would be more than any young twenty something player could offer, especially one of the same position who plays the game with the willingness to take it to the hole and demand respect.

Anyway--my comment that he was the best prospect since Duncan doesn't mean I was comparing their situation, although I suppose our cover is actually better than what San Antonio had when Duncan arrived.

Still, your arguments are not persuasive to me. We have the right as fans to expect a lot out of Oden, and we shouldn't be making excuses for him.

Why, we needed him more than he needed us. We are the lucky ones who should feel fortunate for his presence and potential.

No matter how you want to slice it, he was brought in to win championships, and if he doesn't perform then we should be critical.

You act as if he's already a pro, has signed as a free agent and owes you something personally.


In the end, though, I don't think we put any pressure on Greg that he doesn't put on himself. He's that kind of guy. Regardless, I'm stil 100% against the idea that we shouldn't say things like "Oden will solve our defensive issues" if we believe it because it is putting undue pressure on him. That's just silly IMO.

That doesn't mean we should boo him or put excessive pressure on him.

So are you saying Oden will solve (all) our defensive issues because you believe it or because you believe it will put undue pressure on him?
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Post#130 » by Tim Lehrbach » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:47 pm

Hey, Pinot love, you're into, like, stats and stuff. Post more.

Good points about Robinson's importance (and quality even in his later years), but I think mojo is really just trying to convey his high level of confidence in Oden. He's not anticipating ever having to boo Oden and isn't worried about putting "undue" pressure on him because he believes so strongly Oden will be the great player he was hyped for years and ultimately drafted #1 overall to be.
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