Do you foresee more 20-game slumps from Hinrich and Gordon?

JackFinn · Post #1 » by **JackFinn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:36 pm

Because if you do, and you are a REALGM, wouldn't you wait until either goes through a stretch of great games and sell his ass high? It was easy to look at the Tyson situation and lament, even rue, selling him low. But the alternative, trading a hot player, is difficult to do.

The natural reaction to a hot player is to want to keep him and dream of sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even lollipops. That is, until that player takes a dump on your lollipops by going on a 20 game slump. Then the natural reaction is to get rid of him.

cool007 · Post #2 » by **cool007** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:46 pm

I agree on that about selling them high but Gordon has been playing pretty well and out of the funk quite a while ago. He is almost back to his normal average of last year. So are Deng and Nocioni.

The players that are sucking really hard are Hinrich and Duhon.

I disagree about 20 games, Hinrich still hasn't had 2 to 3 straight games where he has played like his oldself of last year. So it's more like 30 or so games than 20 games.

The300thSpartan · Post #3 » by **The300thSpartan** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:47 pm

Hinrich - Yes.
Gordon - Yes, but only at the start of the season, which makes it more palatable, as long as everyone else isn't sucking, which of course hasn't been the case this year.

Either way you're right, sell high if you can.

bullzman23 · Post #4 » by **bullzman23** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:47 pm

Well, I personally would argue that Deng, Hinrich, Noce, and Duhon all have good trade value at the moment. These guys are generally viewed favorably outside of Chicago, and despite poor play I don't think that their value has been hurt much of any. Certainly it could get higher, but on the flipside if they play worse or stay the same it could also go down.

JackFinn · Post #5 » by **JackFinn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:56 pm

cool007 wrote:I agree on that about selling them high but Gordon has been playing pretty well and out of the funk quite a while ago. He is almost back to his normal average of last year.

That's part of the point. If you foresee him going through other long slumps in the future, wouldn't you want to trade him while he's still young and during a hot stretch? Because aren't these slumps the biggest reasons for our shot season?

I excluded Deng because I don't think he's sunk as low as Biff and Happy. And he doesn't have the slumpage history that they do.

cool007 wrote:I disagree about 20 games, Hinrich still hasn't had 2 to 3 straight games where he has played like his oldself of last year. So it's more like 30 or so games than 20 games.

Fine, agreed.

JackFinn · Post #6 » by **JackFinn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:01 pm

bullzman23 wrote:Well, I personally would argue that Deng, Hinrich, Noce, and Duhon all have good trade value at the moment. These guys are generally viewed favorably outside of Chicago, and despite poor play I don't think that their value has been hurt much of any. Certainly it could get higher, but on the flipside if they play worse or stay the same it could also go down.

Trade value always takes a hit during a hot garbage period. And I'm not talking about hitting a rough patch. These cats have long periods of these. Anyway, I'm sure Gordon's value is high at the moment as he is playing like a stud.

bullzman23 · Post #7 » by **bullzman23** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:13 pm

JackFinn wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Trade value always takes a hit during a hot garbage period. And I'm not talking about hitting a rough patch. These cats have long periods of these. Anyway, I'm sure Gordon's value is high at the moment as he is playing like a stud.

Honestly, I just can't see that. It just seems like everyone else views him as a chucking, undersized two-guard, who is better suited off the bench. I can't see that bringing anything great back in a trade for us.

Whenever we hear Gordon's name in the rumor, we almost always hear that Deng, Thomas, Noce, etc. has to be included too.

tclg · Post #8 » by **tclg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:28 pm

probably not that long they should eventually get more consistent. I think gordons early season slump stems from him working out too much and it changes the strength of his shot it takes him a while to adjust

JackFinn · Post #9 » by **JackFinn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:31 pm

bullzman23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

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Honestly, I just can't see that. It just seems like everyone else views him as a chucking, undersized two-guard, who is better suited off the bench. I can't see that bringing anything great back in a trade for us.

Whenever we hear Gordon's name in the rumor, we almost always hear that Deng, Thomas, Noce, etc. has to be included too.

Coming back from a tv timeout against the Warriors, the Don Nelson was briefly interviewed. He said the main goal is to contain Gordon. People around the league know he is dangerous. And there is always someone who thinks they could better utilise a player. Case in point the Lakers trading Caron for Kwame.

tclg · Post #10 » by **tclg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:39 pm

jack finn you are right people always think they can outsmart each other

Cliff Levingston · Post #11 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:50 pm

Personnel decisions concerning our young guys (Tyrus, Thabo, Noah and Gray) and the core (Hinrich, Gordon and Deng) should definitely be put on hold for the time being until we see what our new coaching staff next season can do with them.

If the right deal comes along for a big slashing 2 or a good big man, Cliff Levingston wouldn't hesitate to trade Hinrich though; he's too much of a tweener, but he also has some good value around the league due to his size, defense and myth that he can make plays.

Bull Shak · Post #12 » by **Bull Shak** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:24 pm

There just isn't a lot of buzz for Gordon. What happened was that you have a guy like Ainge, who absolutely loves Gordon, he has Allen, Garnett, and Pierce on the table right now. He is just trying to ride this. I think he would definitely trade Allen, and maybe Pierce for Gordon....at least in the offseason, if they fail to win it all/get out of the east. Larry Bird has long wanted Gordon, but Jermaine O'neal isn't valuable enough to get Gordon anymore, and Bird was trying to buy cheap (aka doing good gm'n) on Gordon. Isiah Thomas undoubtedly wants Gordon, but what is he going to give us? Nothing good. Milwaukee seems to have flirted with Gordon before, but that would have been if they didn't opt the route of going with resigning Mo Williams, and getting Desmond Mason in. Atlanta, seems like a natural fit for Gordon, but they need to make a trade to accommodate signing him, and I don't think their front office is in shambles, so they won't do that. (Gordon-Johnson-Smith-Williams-Horford would be pretty beastly). Phoenix/Golden St, the two teams that are the offensive swing teams that would be great for Gordon, don't have any room for him on their teams. Michael Jordan is in the same boat as the Bucks, he likes Gordon, but the J-Rich trade put an end to that idea, I'm sure Okafor would have liked having Gordon there over J-Rich as well. Then you have Miami/Los Angeles, teams with superstar guards that Gordon would look great next to, they don't have anything to give us (well Bynum, but they won't trade him).

I think Gordon's value is pretty high in Paxson's eyes, and around the league. I don't think Paxson is blind to seeing that Gordon has been the most responsible for our success the past 3 seasons. He also isn't blind to the hardwork Gordon puts in. I just don't see these crap trades people put out for Gordon being feasible in Paxson's eyes.

Gordon struggles in the first part of the season. He has always played his best ball towards the end (his April #'s are pretty extraordinary). I don't think Paxson would ever part with Gordon in these Amare/Gasol trades (unless it was pretty much Gordon and Filler for one of the two), because he knows, moving forward with the team, we need to be nabbing these guys and using them to complement Gordon...and hopefully Deng too. (thus using Hinrich/Nocioni/Thabo/Thomas/Noah/Gray/Smith/Duhon as the trade pieces).

JackFinn · Post #13 » by **JackFinn** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:08 am

Bull Shak doing his "greatest hits"

Anyway, it seems like few people believe Gordon and Hinrich will turn consistent within reason. Please don't call to trade them when they go through a horrible stretch, because there have been many points in their career where their value was high. I think come the next super-slumps, their trade value will take a serious hit.