Artest may opt out- money not as important as championship

[RJM]

If Artest is willing to sign for MLE, wouldn't he want to sign with Miami? I mean, it is a known fact that he would like to play for Miami or New York. And with him there and a high draft pick, Miami would have a very good shot at the championship next year.

I agree. Since the contracts of Jason Williams, Ricky Davis and Dorell Wright expire this summer, the Heat will have ample cap room to maneuver with. I doubt they'll resign Ricky Davis next season. All those guys need to do is to hold on to their decent pieces (Wade, Cook, Haslem, Shaq?) and add Artest along with some real role players and they should be back winning 50 in no time. I'd love to beat Shaq in the Finals.

[Slava]

He'd like to be a hero in New York rather come here and be a role player if his mind is still in the same frame as it was back in his Indiana days but now that Sacramento need to get some kind of return for him before he opts out, I'd bet my money on him going to either Houston or Phoenix (Boris Diaw + Pick) because they are two teams that'd trade first round picks in a heartbeat.

[LLcoleJ]

He'd like to be a hero in New York rather come here and be a role player if his mind is still in the same frame as it was back in his Indiana days but now that Sacramento need to get some kind of return for him before he opts out, I'd bet my money on him going to either Houston or Phoenix (Boris Diaw + Pick) because they are two teams that'd trade first round picks in a heartbeat.

How much you want to bet? I will take that action. There is no way that Sac takes back another tweener in Diaw with a brutal contract.

[Slava]

They could actually use Diaw at PF and I read a couple of articles that Scato are still looking to make a playoff push when Bibby comes back.

[Slava]

Also don't underrate the importance of Phx's pick (the one they get from Atlanta).

[LLcoleJ]

They could actually use Diaw at PF and I read a couple of articles that Scato are still looking to make a playoff push when Bibby comes back.

Diaw gets 9 million a year and he hasnt lived up to that contract since he signed it.

They have 2 players that also are similar in their games with bad contracts that they wish they didnt have. SAR and KThomas.

So, I would love to take that bet.

[LLcoleJ]

Also don't underrate the importance of Phx's pick (the one they get from Atlanta).

ATL is in the 7th spot in the playoffs. They can very will make the playoffs this year. Especially with the some teams in the east that are breaking down.

That pick is not as " important" as PHX might have hoped for.

[tkb]

For all the crap Artest takes (most of it deserved), he does seem fairly down to earth when it comes to money.

I remember reading that he was going to donate his entire salary one year to charity, and that he was trying to get a couple other millionaires to do the same. He made like 6 million that season.

[RIPskaterdude]

Artest and Kobe on the same team would be pretty exciting to watch, but I don't know if Artest would be happy being 2nd fiddle to Kobe. He's made it known several times with Indiana and Sac that he wants to be the "captain" (one of the reasons why he had problems with Bibby last year). I would probably recommend trading away Odom for a better fit PF in the off season if Artest went to LA.

[Slava]

-= original quote snipped =-



ATL is in the 7th spot in the playoffs. They can very will make the playoffs this year. Especially with the some teams in the east that are breaking down.

That pick is not as " important" as PHX might have hoped for.

Wierd things happen in the east after ASB. I expect Indiana, NJ and Chicago or Milwaukee to make the playoffs over the Hawks.

[milesfides]

Artest also said he'd be willing to come off the bench for a superstar. He also showed up to some Laker games after demanding to be traded from Indiana. I believe Kobe alluded to this relationship between him and Artest last summer, in one of his recorded or written statements, when Kobe accused management of undermining his efforts to get Artest to L.A. And I believe Artest himself expressed that he thought he was going to be a Laker (somebody find me the link).

Artest had a problem in Indiana because he thought more of the offense should run through him. Can anybody blame him? Since he left, Indiana has never been remotely as good. In retrospect, he probably was more important to the team than Jermaine O'Neal. That doesn't excuse his actions, but it does give insight into what motivates Ron Artest, and that might actually work in our favor.

I wrote about Artest in the past, and I do think he has demons. He is one of those players who become villains because they have strength, but no direction. I'm speculating his upbringing, the nature of his background, can attest to his particular persona. He compared himself to Rodman, even picking his number to wear, because he essentially views himself as an outcast, relishes in it... but ultimately wants to be loved.

Artest will be a destructive force until he can fill the Rodman role on a team. He wants to be the badass on the good team. He wants to be the thug among the choir boys. He has all-NBA talent but an enforcer's mentality. What he doesn't want to be is be surrounded by those who are weaker than him. One infamous anecdote described Artest during a particularly tense halftime; he hurled a basketball above his teammates' heads. Nobody challenged him.

He is essentially a bully who needs a father figure, a big brother. Artest wants to be a champion, he wants to be loved, but he is undoubtedly insecure about himself, which is why he's so destructive.

He is inherently a follower who seeks a leader worthy of respect - in his eyes.

Maybe Artest won't ever find him. But the one coach who can manage him is probably Phil Jackson. And the one player that would command his respect is probably Kobe Bryant.

If Ron Artest ever finds redemption in the NBA or in his personal life, it would probably be as a Laker.

[tkb]

Great post miles.

[davidse]

seems to me like reggie theus is doing just fine with artest.
as did adleman and mussleman.
it would be a walk in the park for phil.
bottom line this move is years overdue. wasted years.

but for some reason people think that artest opting out is the end of our problems in acquiring him from sacramento - so we shouldn't be trading for him now ?

far from the truth.

ever heard of sign and trades ???

THAT'S what's going to happen with artest.

sure, i believe he'll take the mle from the lakers over being signed and traded to a crappy team for more money.
BUT WHAT CRAPPY TEAM WOULD GIVE HIM A BIG CONTRACT ANYWAY ?

only a contender takes on artest, and ONLY contenders will offer sign and trades offers to the kings - with the exception of new york, and new york is the one crappy team that artest WOULD go to for more money over taking some contender's mle, because it's been his dream to play there, and because he knows (or he should know) that they will be a strong team with him on board - as will any team.
this guy is as much of an impact player as they come.

so the point is, want artest next summer ?
you still have to deal with the kings.
no way around it, because they WILL get sign and trade offers for him from some team he'd either consider a contenders, or are named the new york knicks...

and if we do decide to persue him next summer rather than now - it becomes a LOT harder with kwame off the books.

just my 2 cents.

[Dexmor]

I wonder if he will say that when a team offers him 50 million dollars. No way he is coming for midlevek

[hermes]

man artest would be nice to get

[El Hardee]

I wonder if he will say that when a team offers him 50 million dollars. No way he is coming for midlevek

I dont think anyone in the league will play for the midLEVEK.

[tkb]

I dont think anyone in the league will play for the midLEVEK.

Yup. No need to even debute that.

[snaquille oatmeal]

seems to me like reggie theus is doing just fine with artest.
as did adleman and mussleman.
it would be a walk in the park for phil.
bottom line this move is years overdue. wasted years.

but for some reason people think that artest opting out is the end of our problems in acquiring him from sacramento - so we shouldn't be trading for him now ?

far from the truth.

ever heard of sign and trades ???

THAT'S what's going to happen with artest.

sure, i believe he'll take the mle from the lakers over being signed and traded to a crappy team for more money.
BUT WHAT CRAPPY TEAM WOULD GIVE HIM A BIG CONTRACT ANYWAY ?

only a contender takes on artest, and ONLY contenders will offer sign and trades offers to the kings - with the exception of new york, and new york is the one crappy team that artest WOULD go to for more money over taking some contender's mle, because it's been his dream to play there, and because he knows (or he should know) that they will be a strong team with him on board - as will any team.
this guy is as much of an impact player as they come.

so the point is, want artest next summer ?
you still have to deal with the kings.
no way around it, because they WILL get sign and trade offers for him from some team he'd either consider a contenders, or are named the new york knicks...

and if we do decide to persue him next summer rather than now - it becomes a LOT harder with kwame off the books.

just my 2 cents.

David, explain to me how the sign and trade thing works.
I would assume that a player would have a say on weather he wanted to sign and trade. the player can refuse right? or does it work that just because he is still under contract that the team has the final say on a sign and trade?
I understand that the team can ship him anywhere, but he can still opt out once his original contract expires if he doesn't sign and trade right?

[davidse]

snaq - first of all, great to see you here. it's been a while - at least for someone like me who doesn't follow the community thread.

anyway - obviously no team can "force" a player to accept a sign and trade. it's his option to accept it or not.

thing is, in today's nba, very few teams are usually under the salary cap in a specific off season - meaning very few teams are able to offer a free agent more than the mle.
on top of that, due to conflicting agendas, or a specific position already being filled, it is very likely that some if not most of the teams who are under the cap won't have interest in a specific free agent.

for example - look at next summer and who's going to be under the cap.

clippers
bobcats
sixers
maybe wizards

right there you can see that artest's chances of landing more than an mle contract are extremely slim.
i would say that only the clippers are a remote possiblity, and all things considerred - that's extremely low odds.

so if i'm artest and i want to get a new contract for more than the mle - even if i want to go to a contending team, i NEED the king's help, and my agent will try to orchestrate a sign and trade to one of the teams that i'd like to play for.
assuming that there will be at least one such offer (from ny) and probably more, why would artest chose the lakers ?
i dont' think he will.
he'd like to play here, but there are several other places he'd like to play in, and if there's such a huge difference in money - he's accepting the sign and trade for sure.

so realisticaly - if the lakers want artest, it is my opinion that they'd STILL have to deal with sacramento for him. still have the same problems of the kings being reluctant to help the lakers when no one is forcing their hand, and we'll still have to give up value for artest - only we wont' have kwame's expiring contract to use - and that contract could be the foundation for a current deal - with either a pick or a young player being the insentive.

if we do trade for him now, i think he can sign an extention right away - kind of like kg did with boston - but maybe lakerfan10700 (sorry, i know i allways mess up your numbers dude ) can quote you the exact rule from the f.a.q.
if we don't extend him, there's very little danger in doing that.
it may even be the smarter move - because of the scenario i discribed up top of artest's options in the offseason.
- assuming we'll want to keep him and the only offers he'll have are mle offers, we can be fairly confident that keeping him is entirely up to us - even though he'll be unrestricted.
we just need to offer more than the mle, and combined with the good situation which apparently he wants to be part of - we should be able to keep him.

so if i understood your question correctly, and you're worried about trading for him now and then losing him next summer -
i think it's safe to assume that would be entirely up to us if it happend.
so much so that i'm not even sure we should extend him right now even if it is allowed (as i said - i think it is, but only 98% sure).

the point i was trying to make is that "simply picking him up for the mle next summer as a free agent" may prove to impossible, and we'll once again find ourselves having to negotiate with the kings and even be in a less favorable position than we are now imo.

[snaquille oatmeal]

thanks David, that cleared up a lot.