My attempt at forming a roster with Zach Randolph

[DH34Phan]

OK, this is what I would do to build a team around Randolph/Bogut.

Step 1: Trade Bobby Simmons, Dan Gadzuric, and Charlie Villanueva to Knicks for Zach Randolph and Renaldo Balkman

Step 2: Trade Michael Redd to Memphis for Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and 2008 2nd round pick.

Step 3: Trade Mo Williams and Voskuhl to the Hawks for Josh Childress and Speedy Claxton and Solomon Jones. I'm not sure about the BYC and all, but the contracts match.

Step 4: Select PG Darren Collison with our 1st round pick (8-12). Select Nat Dorsey with Memphis' 2nd pick, and Goran Drajic with our 2nd pick.

Step 5: Buy-out Claxton and S. Jones. Sign a FA PG and C off the street, in this case I will use Royal Ivey and Michael Ruffin.

Your 2008-09 Milwaukee Bucks
PG: Darren Collison/ Royal Ivey/ Goran Drajic
SG: Mike Miller/ Charlie Bell
SF: Josh Childress/ Desmond Mason/ Renaldo Balkman
PF: Zach Randolph/ Yi/ Brian Cardinal
C: Andrew Bogut/ Nat Dorsey/ Michael Ruffin

As far as shot attempts go, right now the Bucks average 80. I could see Collison getting 7 shots a game as a rookie. Right now, Miller averages 12. Childress 8. That leaves 53 shots. Spread 23 shots among Ivey (4), Bell (7), Mason (4), and Yi (8 ). That leaves 30 shots for Zach and Bogut.

Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal's contracts expire after 2009-10, and Zach Randolph's the year after. Hopefully by Zach's, 3 seasons, a core of Collison/Yi/Bogut will be ready to dominate.

For the next 2-3 seasons, I think that team would be far better than what we have now.

[REDDzone]

Memphis laughs at that deal IMO.

[DH34Phan]

Memphis laughs at that deal IMO.

Changed the Memphis trade, and added a step 5.

[Ryan5UW]

Redd for Miller, Cardinal and a 2nd? Seriously, is THAT all we could expect? I sure hope not...

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal?

Collison? Hell no.

You need a dynamic wing in the mold of a young Travis Outlaw who Larry Harris was trying to get before the season and Portland said no.

I already made the best lineup you can possibly make. Why are you doing another one!?

You can't top this one:

Mikael Pietrus (Send Mo Williams packing for him or Simmons?)
Zach Randolph
Andrew Bogut
Eric Gordon (Draft Pick deluxe. Or Mario Chalmers, Derrick Rose, etc.)
Michael Redd (Either he or Mo have to go...I would rather move Redd.)
Nate Robinson (Renaldo Balkman, or Wilson Chandler, Mardy Collins.)
Yi Jinalian
Ersan Ilyasova
David Noel (Or Desmond Mason here...)
Michael Ruffin
Charlie Bell (Would help acclimate Randolph...)
Jake Voskhul
Royal Ivey

Granted you would have to get lucky in the lottery to get Gordon but there are plenty of PG's to be had this year who can help and some
PF's you can draft...later on.

The team you assembled is more of a risk.

Get some athletes who can get up and down and defend! The garbage you are talking about is a waste of time.

Then bring in a new coach with experience.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

What is this lovefest you people have with Josh Childress!?

He is a nice player and all but he is exactly what we dont need. Another soft, lean, lanky finesse player with no explosion and no off the chart juice!

He is just....bland. A nice player and all but he has no impact on a game down the stretch. None!

He is a filler. A complementary 'filler.' You look for impact at SF. Look at the kid in Portland Travis Outlaw. Long and wiry, can run all day and get up and down on his legs and defend, rebound, and fill the lanes!

That is the kind of guy you need like a Pietrus or a Gerald Wallace type guy. If that is the case just clear room to get Josh Smith or evem make a run at 6'6 Andre Iguodala?

Not Childress. You can draft a player with more impact then that...He is a good fit right where he is!

[El Duderino]

OK, this is what I would do to build a team around Randolph/Bogut.

Step 1: Trade Bobby Simmons, Dan Gadzuric, and Charlie Villanueva to Knicks for Zach Randolph and Renaldo Balkman

Step 2: Trade Michael Redd to Memphis for Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and 2008 2nd round pick.

Step 3: Trade Mo Williams and Voskuhl to the Hawks for Josh Childress and Speedy Claxton and Solomon Jones. I'm not sure about the BYC and all, but the contracts match.

Step 4: Select PG Darren Collison with our 1st round pick (8-12). Select Nat Dorsey with Memphis' 2nd pick, and Goran Drajic with our 2nd pick.

Step 5: Buy-out Claxton and S. Jones. Sign a FA PG and C off the street, in this case I will use Royal Ivey and Michael Ruffin.

The problem in what "you'd do" is assuming the Grizzlies and Hawks would make those trades and Collison would be available to draft.

[Pinot love]

Here's the problem, this is how Zach views lineups:

PG: Guy who passes me the ball
SG: Guy stands around waiting for long rebounds I can't get
SF: Guy who passes me the ball and then stands around in the corners with no one around him while I "work the paint". I like looking at the dumbfounded look on his face as I put up crappy shots through triple teams.
PF: Me, guy who scores and rebounds - at the expense of letting my man on defense do what he wants so I can get rebounding position.
C: Guy in my way of my rebounds (That's why I like Eddy Curry so much, he's never there!)

[LUKE23]

Dude, you've created enough threads on this. Let it go.

[DH34Phan]

Dude, you've created enough threads on this. Let it go.

Ok. I'm gonna go drink my Bobby Simmons and Gadzuric Kool-Aid and pray that, since they aren't "cancers", they will all of a sudden make this team better.

Same with Mo and Redd. Eventually this tandem has to produce a winner, right?

Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson really killed Golden State with their reputations!

[Pinot love]

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Ok. I'm gonna go drink my Bobby Simmons and Gadzuric Kool-Aid and pray that, since they aren't "cancers", they will all of a sudden make this team better.

Same with Mo and Redd. Eventually this tandem has to produce a winner, right?

Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson really killed Golden State with their reputations!

When you have established, solid leaders like Baron Davis and Coach Nellie and have plenty of other weapons to create competition with you can take on the Stephen Jackson's of the world. I'm not sure if or when Al Harrington was ever considered a cancer.

I don't know enough about your team to have a strong opinion on what it needs to do, but I sure as heck know the solution isn't Zach Randolph.

Personally Mo Williams and Charlie are the only players I like for your purposes. Redd is valuable piece, but I don't think he can be "the man". I hate Bogut.

I'd trade everyone other than Williams and Charlie V (still to young to risk making a mistake on) for either a big name like Baron Davis or to make room for a big signing in the next two seasons as supposedly there will be big names available.

[DH34Phan]

I'd trade everyone other than Williams and Charlie V (still to young to risk making a mistake on) for either a big name like Baron Davis or to make room for a big signing in the next two seasons as supposedly there will be big names available.

Come on. So you love Charlie V, who is a Zach Randolph Clone, and you love Mo Williams, who is basically the opposite of Baron Davis. And you hate Bogut? He is easily the best player on this team. Easily.

Building a team around Mo and Charile V doesn't do much for me, especially if you would get rid of Bogut.

[REDDzone]

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Personally Mo Williams and Charlie are the only players I like for your purposes. Redd is valuable piece, but I don't think he can be "the man". I hate Bogut.

I'd trade everyone other than Williams and Charlie V (still to young to risk making a mistake on) for either a big name like Baron Davis or to make room for a big signing in the next two seasons as supposedly there will be big names available.

I quote you for wisdom then you go and discredit yourself.

[Pinot love]

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I quote you for wisdom then you go and discredit yourself.

Well like I said I don't know enough about your team to have a strong opinion.

Explain?

[Pinot love]

Come on. So you love Charlie V, who is a Zach Randolph Clone,

Definitely not a Randolph clone. I've actually seem V play quite a bit. He's had a tough live and rocky career. He's 23, give him time.

and you love Mo Williams, who is basically the opposite of Baron Davis. And you hate Bogut? He is easily the best player on this team. Easily.

Bogut is your best player, hahahaha.

How is Mo the opposite of Davis? I mean they aren't "clones", but I don't see them being that far apart. Though I'm not sure you're the guy I should be asking.

Building a team around Mo and Charile V doesn't do much for me, especially if you would get rid of Bogut.

I know my distaste of Bogut isn't popular, but I have my reasons. I think he'd make a great second team big man though.

[Rockmaninoff]

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Well like I said I don't know enough about your team to have a strong opinion.

Explain?

Well, Williams and Villanueva are the 2 guys that a lot of people want the team to trade, in order for us to get better. At least, that is my opinion. Anybody else care to take it from here?

[DH34Phan]

Baron is opposite of Mo in that he's big, strong, plays good D, and is a better passer.

[REDDzone]

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Well like I said I don't know enough about your team to have a strong opinion.

Explain?

CV is great when he asserts himself, but that is never. The guy has a questionable work ethic and contents himself with shooting 3's despite the fact that he probably has the best touch around the basket on the team.

Not to mention I couldn't name a worse defender in the league, and that isn't hyperbole.

Mo is a good player, and one that I want to keep. But he is also putrid on the D end. So keeping him is fine, but keeping the combination of him and Villanueva would be a wretched defensive foundation.

Bogut is arguably our best player when you factor in defense. And has been a beast in January (check out the "Bogut in January" thread). He has been posting a Duncanesque Winscore and is no doubt our building block.


Why do you hate him?

I agree with you about Redd.

Yi is also good, even if he has hit a rookie wall.

Thanks for stopping by and giving us a Portland fan's perspective on Z-Bo. You pretty much confirmed everything I saw in the Celtic game yesterday.

[Pinot love]

CV is great when he asserts himself, but that is never. The guy has a questionable work ethic and contents himself with shooting 3's despite the fact that he probably has the best touch around the basket on the team.

Not to mention I couldn't name a worse defender in the league, and that isn't hyperbole.

I think CV has shown the flashes of solid potential which merit giving him a solid chance much like the Blazers have with their young players. There are also good reasons why he hasn't developed quickly, ones he can overcome. I would only trade him for a player like Tyrus Thomas. Young and potential filled.

Mo is a good player, and one that I want to keep. But he is also putrid on the D end. So keeping him is fine, but keeping the combination of him and Villanueva would be a wretched defensive foundation.

Bogut is arguably our best player when you factor in defense. And has been a beast in January (check out the "Bogut in January" thread). He has been posting a Duncanesque Winscore and is no doubt our building block.


Why do you hate him?

I really don't think CV and Williams are that bad a defenders, they just aren't proactive on the defensive end. From my perspective you have a aura of lameness surrounding your team, one which effects the defensive effort of NBA teams. I can identify, Portland was in that fog for a few years. Aside from a pride, or effort based affect, your defensive problems stem from a lack of a beast in the middle. Bogut takes charges, he doesn't change shots or block them. You need a pin in the middle, not a cushion. Offensively Bogut needs to play the high post role, but he's not a good shooter from that position. Effective scoring is an essential from a high post player. He also isn't a great rebounder, ranking about 25th in rebound rate amongst NBA centers.

You need a frontcourt player who is going to rebound, block shots, take it to the rack and get fouled... hm maybe a trade of CV is in need.

I agree with you about Redd.

Yi is also good, even if he has hit a rookie wall.

Thanks for stopping by and giving us a Portland fan's perspective on Z-Bo. You pretty much confirmed everything I saw in the Celtic game yesterday.

[Whiteman]

Others have said it, but it needs to be said again: Charlie V is a terrible defender. He can create his own shot at any time though, he's a really good scorer.

Mo Williams is a combo guard, someone who can run the offense off the bench, but not a guy who can lead a team or make his teammates better. And also a poor defender, though not for a lack of effort.

Bogut, who was considered a bit soft in his forst 2 years, has turned it around completely defensively. He's blocking shots and generally protecting the basket.
His offense is still a work in progress, but he's improving. If he continues to work on his game, he'll be the undisputed best player on the Bucks in a year or so.