One Bright spot in the Boylan Era?

[DuckIII]

Yea but it's not like Gordon is 6'6 or anything. 3.1 RPG for him is fine to me.

A rebound is a rebound. Thats no different than saying "yea, but its not like he's got good shooting touch" as a way to sort of poo-poo Thabo's poor shooting percentage. Its an aspect of the game that he's weak at for a shooting guard. The reason for the weakness isn't important. Especially when discussing whether or not he's a one-trick pony.

Defensively I do think he's gotten better from where he's started. Sometimes gets lazy, but he's solid overall.

From where he started? No doubt. He's was a horrible defensive player as a rookie. He's come pretty far since then.

I'd give him around 5/50 or 5/53 to 55 at most. He's made it pretty damn clear that he's a big part of this team and deserves good money, and near or equal to the same amount as the more cherished Luol Deng.

Except for the gratuitous comment about Deng, thats pretty much what I said. Assuming he keeps up his current level of productivity. There's a lot of season left to be played.

[DuckIII]

i expect BG7 to get a nice offer and be playing elsewhere next season as well. @ 12mil + guarantee he'll be a starter.

i'm trying to enjoy him playing his last games as a Bull.

(picture)(picture)
if only he was 2" taller, had bigger hands and Tyrus' leaping ability to finish these dunks....
i'll miss him next season.

Unless the Bulls get to the postseason and Ben Gordon puts the team on his back and they win at least one series almost exclusively on the strength of his play, no one is going to offer him $12 mil per.

[TB#1]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Re ... DD=Default

Ben ranks #37 among guards in rebounding.

As putrid as that is, he is the highest ranking Bulls guard in rebounding.

Kirk is a close second on the Bulls at 39, Thabos' at 68 and Duhon...a pathetic 111.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Re ... DD=Default

Now on a per 48 basis, the Bulls guards rank somewhat differently.

Thabo is #7 in the league.

AG 16, Kirk 83, Ben G 102.

And again trailing the pack...Du at 153.

[ATRAIN53]

i do think so.

the guy is a PURE shooter, he's open when he walks into the gym. he's capable of taking over a game when he gets hot and he'll only be 25 years old - lots of great years ahead of him.

but most importantly the scouting report on him will say this:

led team in scoring despite coming off the bench.

i'd sign that guy and make him a starter if i was a GM. wouldn't you?

sure, Paxson could make him suffer another year here with a match but i think that would really make a long term deal even harder to fathom.

[cool007]

Ben ranks #37 among guards in rebounding.

As putrid as that is, he is the highest ranking Bulls guard in rebounding.

Kirk is a close second on the Bulls at 39, Thabos' at 68 and Duhon...a pathetic 111.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Re ... DD=Default

Now on a per 48 basis, the Bulls guards rank somewhat differently.

Thabo is #7 in the league.

AG 16, Kirk 83, Ben G 102.

And again trailing the pack...Du at 153.

Thank you.

Bulls already have TON of rebounders and most of them are atleast solid like Deng + Nocioni + Wallace + Tyrus + Noah + Smith + Gray and even Thabo whenever they gotten a chance to play.

So since we have ton of rebounders and we are one of the best in offensive rebounding. I don't know why should we get on GOrdon for not being a good rebounder.

If you look at Kevin Martin (almost similar player) who gets 1 more rebound per game than Gordon but Gordon gets 1 more assist per game than Martin.

[ptpablo]

I would not offer the same deal as before the season. I would make BG get an offer.

[Rerisen]

Even as a Ben Gordon fan, his personal numbers don't interest me as much as the team winning.

So people can stand up and cheer for the illusion that benching Gordon has gotten him going, all the while the team continues to lose leads and lose games while Gordon sits on the bench and then is rushed in after it is too late to do anything about it.

Has the team improved since Gordon has gone to the bench? That is all that matters. Well we are .500 under Boylan, but don't be fooled, we have only managed that because we have played a string of crap teams during our easiest month of the year, and only then managed to beat some of those crappy teams.

In a ideal situation, the Bulls would have a decent SG in front of Gordon and we could bring him off the bench. This is not a ideal situation. And for whatever Gordon's gains on the bench (which would really be the same if he was just given the ball while starting) the change still ends up being a net loser for the team and the W/L column because his replacement(s) are so downright awful and the starting lineup is pathetically devoid of anything resembling a legit go-to guy.

Skiles was pretty thick-headed but at least he understood that sending Gordon to the bench was not because of how good Gordon was off the bench, but because he wasn't getting it done as a starter. But once Gordon looked to have gotten his game back, and in light of Duhon sucking, Skiles was smart enough to try him back in the starting line up and lo and behold, he actually managed to keep playing well! When Boylan figures part 2 of that equation, he will be half of the way to giving this team a chance (benching Wallace being the other half).

[DuckIII]

cool007, I'm not getting on Gordon for being a poor rebounder. I don't care about his rebounding at all. In fact, it appears to have improved.

Red said "those aren't the stats of a one-trick pony".

But thats exactly what they are. And part of the reason they are is because Gordon isn't a good rebounder for a shooting guard. I'm simply noting an indisputable fact.

[Three34]

I don't really give a bollock if he IS a one trick pony (not to say that you do, Duck). As long as he's very good at that one trick, and decent to mediocre at other stuff.

It's also a trick that we really, really need. On a team that really struggles with making shots, we have this one player that is really, really good at making shots. Tis most welcome.

[Rerisen]

Put Thabo next to Gordon and we will forget all about BG needing to rebound.

[DuckIII]

I don't really give a bollock if he IS a one trick pony (not to say that you do, Duck). As long as he's very good at that one trick, and decent to mediocre at other stuff.

It's also a trick that we really, really need. On a team that really struggles with making shots, we have this one player that is really, really good at making shots. Tis most welcome.

Just in case people are reading too much into my posts, I agree with this 100%.

He's a one trick pony. But since his re-emergence, he's been good enough at that trick that I don't care.

[ptpablo]

Put Thabo next to Gordon and we will forget all about BG needing to rebound.

I loved it when at the same time we had...

BG
Thabo
Noc
TT
Noah

That was exciting to watch. Also sad because I was excited to see three (i think thabo is one) lottery picks playing at the same time. Unbelievable it took that long. That lineup is long and athletic, especially if Deng is out there. I like it alot.

[Mr. Tibbs]

I also have a bad feeling we're watching the end of the Gordon era in chicago. Despite his deficiencies, he's always been one of the most exciting players for me to watch in the past few years, and watching him in one of his zones is just amazing. However, I get the feeling he wants that money and I also get the feeling that Pax has a number that he won't give much leeway too. I guess it's alotta insinuations but call me one that doesn't expect him back unless we turn it around and have a nice postseason.

[coldfish]

Goodbye Ben, was nice knowing you.

....

Not that it matters, but I think that Gordon in his current role is his perfect niche.

Personally, I don't think that benching Gordon saved his season. People miss the brilliant part of his benching: Gordon comes in the game and plays roughly 18 minutes straight, twice per game.

We all know Gordon is streaky and under Skiles, he seemed to look over his shoulder as soon as he made a mistake. Now, where he knows exactly what his role is (score) and how much and when he will be playing, he looks a lot more relaxed.

Playing for so long at a time seems to allow him to find his groove and make a bunch of shots in a row at some point. When he kept coming in and out, he often did not get a chance to get in some kind of rhythm.

Gordon doesn't shoot 50% (go with me on this) by making one then missing one. He shoots 50% by missing 5 then making 5. If he gets pulled after missing 5, then he shoots 0% for that stretch.

[AAU Teammate]

why do we even have to say " Boylan Era "

He's the coach. for right now.

[cool007]

Goodbye Ben, was nice knowing you.

....

Not that it matters, but I think that Gordon in his current role is his perfect niche.

Personally, I don't think that benching Gordon saved his season. People miss the brilliant part of his benching: Gordon comes in the game and plays roughly 18 minutes straight, twice per game.

We all know Gordon is streaky and under Skiles, he seemed to look over his shoulder as soon as he made a mistake. Now, where he knows exactly what his role is (score) and how much and when he will be playing, he looks a lot more relaxed.

Playing for so long at a time seems to allow him to find his groove and make a bunch of shots in a row at some point. When he kept coming in and out, he often did not get a chance to get in some kind of rhythm.

Gordon doesn't shoot 50% (go with me on this) by making one then missing one. He shoots 50% by missing 5 then making 5. If he gets pulled after missing 5, then he shoots 0% for that stretch.

I agree with that. I think Skiles used to do that a lot with Gordon and then he would quickly put in Duhon as soon as Gordon missed like 3 in a row or something and then won't put Gordon back in until like late 3rd qtr or something.

I also think this is also what happened in his rookie year. He would not play a lot of minutes early on but he would also go like 2 of 6 shooting or 1 of 4 shooting and then explode in the 4th qtr and score 15 or so points to make it 18 to 20 points that game.

People made a lot of things about it but I think if he had stayed in the game for long enough, he would have gone like 5 of 7 or something and the average would be close to 46% to 50% or something.

[fabio]

BEN GORDON

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 22.8 (+3.2) 20.8 (+1.2) 21.1 (+1.5) 19.6
Rebs 1.8 (-1.7) 2.4 (-1.1) 3.0 (-0.5) 3.5
Assists 2.8 (+0.0) 2.9 (+0.1) 2.8 (+0.0) 2.8
Steals 0.6 (-0.2) 0.6 (-0.2) 0.8 (+0.0) 0.8
Blocks 0.0 (-0.1) 0.0 (-0.1) 0.1 (+0.0) 0.1
Turnovers 2.2 (-0.1) 2.4 (+0.1) 2.2 (-0.1) 2.3



THABO

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 10.6 (+6. 6.7 (+2.9) 4.2 (+0.4) 3.8
Rebs 6.2 (+3.6) 4.4 (+1. 2.6 (+0.0) 2.6
Assists 2.2 (+1.0) 1.8 (+0.6) 1.1 (-0.1) 1.2
Steals 2.0 (+1.2) 1.3 (+0.5) 1.0 (+0.2) 0.8
Blocks 0.0 (-0.1) 0.1 (+0.0) 0.1 (+0.0) 0.1
Turnovers 1.8 (+0. 1.0 (+0.0) 0.7 (-0.3) 1.0


LUOL

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 17.8 (-0.1) 17.8 (-0.1) 18.1 (+0.2) 17.9
Rebs 5.2 (-1.4) 6.5 (-0.1) 6.7 (+0.1) 6.6
Assists 3.4 (+1.0) 3.7 (+1.3) 3.0 (+0.6) 2.4
Steals 0.2 (-0.6) 0.7 (-0.1) 0.6 (-0.2) 0.8
Blocks 0.4 (-0.1) 0.4 (-0.1) 0.4 (-0.1) 0.5
Turnovers 2.2 (+0.1) 1.9 (-0.2) 1.9 (-0.2) 2.1


KIRK

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 12.6 (+1.3) 12.2 (+0.9) 12.4 (+1.1) 11.3
Rebs 1.8 (-1.7) 3.6 (+0.1) 4.0 (+0.5) 3.5
Assists 5.8 (-0.2) 6.5 (+0.5) 6.8 (+0. 6.0
Steals 1.0 (-0.1) 0.8 (-0.3) 1.3 (+0.2) 1.1
Blocks 0.2 (+0.0) 0.2 (+0.0) 0.3 (+0.1) 0.2
Turnovers 1.6 (-0. 1.3 (-1.1) 1.9 (-0.5) 2.4


BW

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 5.2 (+0.6) 5.2 (+0.6) 4.0 (-0.6) 4.6
Rebs 6.8 (-2.0) 9.0 (+0.2) 8.5 (-0.3) 8.8
Assists 1.0 (-0.9) 1.6 (-0.3) 2.1 (+0.2) 1.9
Steals 0.8 (-0.6) 1.0 (-0.4) 1.3 (-0.1) 1.4
Blocks 0.8 (-0. 1.2 (-0.4) 1.6 (+0.0) 1.6
Turnovers 1.0 (+0.0) 1.0 (+0.0) 1.1 (+0.1) 1.0


TYRUS

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 1.8 (-3.5) 3.3 (-2.0) 4.2 (-1.1) 5.3
Rebs 2.4 (-1. 3.0 (-1.2) 3.5 (-0.7) 4.2
Assists 0.6 (-0.5) 0.8 (-0.3) 1.1 (+0.0) 1.1
Steals 0.8 (+0.1) 0.6 (-0.1) 0.6 (-0.1) 0.7
Blocks 0.4 (-0.4) 0.8 (+0.0) 0.9 (+0.1) 0.8
Turnovers 0.2 (-0.7) 0.6 (-0.3) 0.9 (+0.0) 0.9


NOCIONI

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 18.2 (+3.7) 18.1 (+3.6) 14.0 (-0.5) 14.5
Rebs 4.2 (-0.6) 4.3 (-0.5) 4.2 (-0.6) 4.8
Assists 1.8 (+0.5) 1.6 (+0.3) 1.2 (-0.1) 1.3
Steals 0.0 (-0.3) 0.2 (-0.1) 0.2 (-0.1) 0.3
Blocks 0.4 (-0.2) 0.7 (+0.1) 0.8 (+0.2) 0.6
Turnovers 0.6 (-1.0) 1.2 (-0.4) 1.5 (-0.1) 1.6


JOE

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 12.4 (+1. 15.5 (+4.9) 13.1 (+2.5) 10.6
Rebs 3.8 (-1.3) 6.3 (+1.2) 5.5 (+0.4) 5.1
Assists 0.8 (-0.1) 0.9 (+0.0) 1.0 (+0.1) 0.9
Steals 0.8 (+0.3) 0.9 (+0.4) 0.7 (+0.2) 0.5
Blocks 0.4 (-0.3) 1.4 (+0.7) 1.1 (+0.4) 0.7
Turnovers 1.0 (+0.1) 1.0 (+0.1) 0.8 (-0.1) 0.9


NOAH

Stat Last 5 Games Last 10 Games Last 20 Games Season
Points 5.0 (+0.7) 4.5 (+0.2) 4.8 (+0.5) 4.3
Rebs 7.6 (+3. 5.3 (+1.5) 4.1 (+0.3) 3.8
Assists 1.2 (+0.3) 1.2 (+0.3) 0.9 (+0.0) 0.9
Steals 1.0 (+0.2) 0.9 (+0.1) 0.8 (+0.0) 0.8
Blocks 0.4 (-0.2) 0.4 (-0.2) 0.6 (+0.0) 0.6
Turnovers 1.2 (+0.4) 0.8 (+0.0) 0.6 (-0.2) 0.8



As you may see, most players are getting better, with Thabo, BG, Joakim and Noc with considerable changes (for good) as well as BW (for bad). Kirk and Luol are compensated between worse and better stats, nothing outrageous, so we'd say they're on their averages for the season.

The above doesn't mean Boylan is good, just posting this as some statistical curiosity