Gordon and freethrows.

[Bull Shak]

A lot has been made about Gordon not getting to the line enough.

Looking at the 11 top freethrow percentage shooters in he league (that qualify with enough attempts), Gordon actually comes out favorably in FTA.

Only 3 players have more FTA. Chauncey Billups at 6.3, Chris Paul at 4.8, and Caron Butler at 4.6. Gordon averages 4.2.

Per 40 minutes, Gordon is at 4.8 FTA. Butler at 4.5, and Paul at 5.1.

So Gordon actually compares favorably in the FTA category. He definitely could improve, but he's not horribly like we're led to believe.

Chauncey Billups is a beast in FTA, but also remember the 82games.com study that found that Billups was the #1 beneficiary of star treatment in the NBA.

Gordon has been off on this regard this year, but last year he had 5.4 FTA (6.5 per 40). He obviously isn't terrible, but was very good in this regard last year.

Now Gordon will never be a Wade, Arenas, Iverson type foul drawer.

But if he can get to around 6-7 FTA next year, that'd be good.

Hopefully Gordon keeps up the good work at the line too.

[SensiBull]

He's also QUITE reliable to hit from there. If not for the turnovers, he'd be the ideal Point Guard, not just because he can score, but because he's a reliable outside threat (spacing) and a consistent free throw shooter.

He really is a keeper, IMO.

[fudgie]

Looking at the 11 top freethrow percentage shooters in he league (that qualify with enough attempts), Gordon actually comes out favorably in FTA.

What a completely random cutoff point. Why not the top ten percentage shooters or the top 12?

For the record Gordon is 50th in the league in total free throw attempts for the season and 36th in total free throws made. He's 54th in free throw attempts per game and 42nd in free throws made per game.

These numbers aren't exactly praise-worthy. In fact they're pretty damn mediocre.

[JackFinn]

This proves that in FTA he compares faborably to 11 other people who shoot free throws well. Fine, but I'd be more interested to know how he compares in FTA to people who enjoyed the movie Gigli.

[Bullsville]

Why would anyone think that Gordon can get up to 6-7 FTA per game next season when he is averaging 4.2 FTA per game this season?

Gordon has regressed to playing like he did in his first 2 seasons, when he had more 3pt attempts than FTA.

Eddy Curry
Ben Gordon

The real question is, who is the next Bull to be obsessively overrated by sloth after Gordon is traded because he wants more money than he is worth?

[Sebastian]

This proves that in FTA he compares faborably to 11 other people who shoot free throws well. Fine, but I'd be more interested to know how he compares in FTA to people who enjoyed the movie Gigli.

Data not found.

[cool007]

I know BG is not all that great when compared to ENTIRE NBA but he ist still THE BEST we have so far on OUR Team.

Also, BG always has something that he improves every year. This year he is at 93% in free throw shooting and one day I think he will lead the league in free throw pct. He is that good.

It's good to know that you have a player that has some type of career high every year - whether be fta, fg%, 3pt%, ppg, rpg, bpg, or whatever but BG has done atleast 1 category every year.

You like to have that in your player(s).

[Bullsville]

I think it would be extremely difficult to find a player in his 4th season who doesn't have a career high in some category every year, especially when that player's minutes have increased in each of his seasons.

[girlygirl]

I'd like to see Gordon get to the FT line 2-3 times more per game than he's currently doing.

That said, he's getting to the lie a LOT more than Hinrich -- who is also ranked in the top 7 in the league in FT%. Ben at least gets to the line 4+ times per game, while Kirk gets there less than 2 times per contest.

If these guys were able to combine for 10 FTA/game rather than the 6+ they are averaging this season, the Bulls would likely pick up a couple of extra wins a season easy. But that's probably a pipedrream.

[girlygirl]

Oh by the way, Gordon's 168 FTA this season rank yid for 49th most in the league this season. -- but tied for 20th among guys who are guards (in addition to these guards, there are some other guys with more FTAs that play guard but are swingmen, so I didn't count them)

[SensiBull]

It's really an overrated category for a PG. For spacing and creating lanes, it's far more important that he is a threat from the outside than that he "takes it to the hole", although I completely understand the whole Chicagoan, blue-collar obsession with aggressive play. You know, roast beef and cheese sandwiches - dipped. I get it.

What's really a concern is that we don't have anyone in the post getting fouled. Getting the interior defense into foul trouble does far more to open up the offense than trying to draw ticky tack fouls on the perimeter. And because the post game involves so much more contact, it's much more realistic to look for those players to draw fouls.

Trying to put it on Ben Gordon is like complaining that Ben Wallace isn't leading the league in assists. It's not a KPI for that position.

[SensiBull]

That Ben Gordon leads the team in attempts is just a testimony to the absence of an offensive post presence on our roster.

[dougthonus]

I'm sure everyone would like to see Gordon get to the line a few more times per game.

However, I wrote a post about this before. Neither Hinrich or Gordon are good at driving and creating contact. It would likely take a bunch more bad shots for them to up their free throw attempts, and at that point, the benefit would likely not be there as we'd generate more negative plays than positive plays. I think both drive when they can, and both turn the ball over and take bad shots when they force it.

We don't have good finishers, so making a bad finisher drive the lane all the time isn't all that helpful.

As for Gordon in general, I'm not sure what to think. I wasn't a fan at all his first 2 years, but last year he was on the verge of becoming an elite player. This year, he's back to playing like his first 2 years in overall productivity (though admittedly better under Boylan). Considering his age and experience level, I'm starting to wonder if last year was the fluke or if this year is the fluke.

That's going to be a tough question to answer, because if it's last year, 5/50 is way too much for him, and if it's this year than 5/50 is a bargain.

[bre9]

The big thing is Gordon is the number 1 in the nba in free throw percentage 92%. Since Boylan has tooken over he has been driving more to the basket. He's on par to getting back to himself as last year as well at the end of the season he's going average at least 22 ppg. His stats right now in the middle of the season is 19.6 ppg on 42 fg%. Since coming off the bench under Boylan he's been averaging 23.4 pts.

[DuckIII]

-= original quote snipped =-


What a completely random cutoff point. Why not the top ten percentage shooters or the top 12?

For the record Gordon is 50th in the league in total free throw attempts for the season and 36th in total free throws made. He's 54th in free throw attempts per game and 42nd in free throws made per game.

These numbers aren't exactly praise-worthy. In fact they're pretty damn mediocre.

Sloth's criteria for ranking Gordon's FTA is worthless and without question tailored to inflate the quality of Ben Gordon in this area.

Snake's stats are the only ones that matter.

[girlygirl]

I'd prefer that the Bulls had a low post presence who can score and get to the FT line. But the sad fact is that, out of the Bulls' bigs (Wallace, Smith, Thomas, Noah, Gray), the only one who can make FTs is Smith. The other guys are all bad FT shooters (Gray probably being the best of that bunch).

So without a big man to contribute in this area, the Bulls need to get the guys who CAN make FTs at a high rate (Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng) to be more aggressive so they can get themselves to the FT line more often.

It shouldn't have to fall all on BG's shoulders. If he, Deng, Nocioni and Hinrich could all get to the FT line 4-5 times per game, that would be ideal. But until (in particular) Kirk and Luol learn to attack the rim and finish better without shying away from contact, this likely won't happen...

[Rerisen]

But until (in particular) Kirk and Luol learn to attack the rim and finish better without shying away from contact, this likely won't happen...

Is this at all likely to happen though? Though I don't think that much of Maggette, he was already drawing over 7.0 FTA per 40 as a rookie. I don't know how many players 'learn' this skill, certainly among ones that have significant college experience.

This is just another team weakness that is not likely to be addressed unless Paxson makes some changes.

[BrooklynBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



Is this at all likely to happen though? Though I don't think that much of Maggette, he was already drawing over 7.0 FTA per 40 as a rookie. I don't know how many players 'learn' this skill, certainly among ones that have significant college experience.

This is just another team weakness that is not likely to be addressed unless Paxson makes some changes.

Gordon, last season, increased his FT attempts up to 6.5 per 40 last year. If he had shot them at THIS year's percentage, he'd be making 6.0 ft per 40. That's a Maggette-like number. The problem is that this season Gordon's been relying on his jumper much more, and its due to him basically getting blocked a ton or not being able to finish.

I actually think its not the skill of foul-drawing so much as the threat to finish that first causes the player to score, then defenses adjust their gameplan, which causes the defense to foul, and lastly, the refs adjust their subconscious views, which lets the player get doubtful calls.

[SensiBull]

I'd prefer that the Bulls had a low post presence who can score and get to the FT line. But the sad fact is that, out of the Bulls' bigs (Wallace, Smith, Thomas, Noah, Gray), the only one who can make FTs is Smith. The other guys are all bad FT shooters (Gray probably being the best of that bunch).

So without a big man to contribute in this area, the Bulls need to get the guys who CAN make FTs at a high rate (Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng) to be more aggressive so they can get themselves to the FT line more often.

It shouldn't have to fall all on BG's shoulders. If he, Deng, Nocioni and Hinrich could all get to the FT line 4-5 times per game, that would be ideal. But until (in particular) Kirk and Luol learn to attack the rim and finish better without shying away from contact, this likely won't happen...

If, in lieu of a post scorer, we also had a couple of forwards who could step out and hit from the arc, then, on those occasions when our guards would go to the hole, and the whole defense would collapse into the paint, we would be able to make the defense pay for collapsing by kicking it back out.

The conundrum here is that the only player who can reliably hit from the arc is the very player that we're asking to go to the hole. So, if you were coaching a team that was defending us, why couldn't you just collapse into the paint every time Ben Gordon put his shoulder down?

[Bullsville]

You know, there are more ways to get to the FT line than just driving to the hole and getting fouled near the rim.

You can pump fake your defender, get him in the air, and lean in and draw the foul. When you aren't good at drawing contact and/or finishing in the paint, this is something you should be working on.

I don't think many people are complaining about Ben's lack of FTA as much as they are just pointing out what an incredible reach sloth's opening post was.

The one point I would make is that Ben is a jump shooter and nothing more. He's an average passer at best, not a very good ball-handler, and not good at getting to the line. So what makes him think he is worth more than 5 years and $50 million?