How good will Yi become?

[blkout]

There I have what?

Some apparently unreadable statistics of some form.

[howe070523]

-= original quote snipped =-



There I have what?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... onType%3d2
Player PER by Hollinger.

CV is ranked 34 while Yi is ranked 39(PF position). before the Suns game CV was ranked 35 and Yi was 36.
There PER difference is 0.43.

CV isnt a much better player than Yi at all.

[howe070523]

Epi told us many times that coaches are not idiots. Krystkowiak is not idiot I am sure. He knows all of this. He is just forced to use Yi more than CV. It was promised to Yi. That is only explanation.

You do realise CV played more minutes recently right?
and You do realise that Yi was outplaying CV in a long stretch of games?

Players have their up and downs, when Yi was playing good didnt some of you guys say " Yi is already better than CV?" Now Yi has hit teh wall so people just turn around and say "Yi is no where near a player CV is".

[fam3381]

I find it interesting that many people want to start CV without any thought given to, you know, how he fits in with the other players on the court. What's his biggest strength? Scoring. Is that our first unit's biggest problem? Lack of scorers?

I'd rather leave CV as a sixth man where he has a better chance to look for his shot...he's inconsistent, so if he's on then you can play him late in games too and get him 30 minutes. He's not in there to defend. If you start him then you're going to see him standing around more looking for three pointers as Redd/Mo/Bogut look for their shots. Not surprising that he often does most of his scoring in the second quarter with Bogut in particular on the bench. Look at last night...12 in the first half, 2 in the second IIRC. He gets lost in the shuffle with the starting unit IMO.

You need complementary players on the court. I think what Yi does is at least as complementary to the starters as what CV does. And he'll still be here next year too.

[Profound23]

Yi: 14.7pp40
CV: 18.7pp40

Yi: 12.8 REB-r
CV: 13.9 REB-r

Yi: 7.3 AST-r
CV: 11.2 AST-r

Yi: 12.2 TO-r
CV: 11.2 TO-r

Yi: 50.1 TS%
CV: 50.5 TS%

Considering Yi is a rookie and CV is in his 3rd year, mix that with the fact that Yi has been playing non-stop basketball forever now and is probably worn down.

I think the fact their stats are even that close tells me Yi is the better player. My problem with Yi is, and I said this when we drafted him........his strengths are CV's strengths and his weaknesses are CV's weaknesses so having both on the same team, let alone the same court is counterproductive. Put either one next to Bogut and a SF like Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng or Iggy and you have an awesome frontcourt.........all we have now is a good Center and two jump shooting PF's who can't play defense.

[LUKE23]

-= original quote snipped =-



That is not true. Both you and PP are homers here. CV is better PF right now. Yi play this much because he did get promise for that. I have no problem to admit that. The Bucks are terrible franchise who do that kind of things. They did promise minutes for Yi and all of you who still fight against that are just homers who don't see the truth. Yi play better defense than CV but overall he is nowhere near the player that CV is. One of the main reasons why we have this much of bad season is that we start and give that much minutes to rookie who is still not ready for that role.

Scoring and rebounding, yes. Everything else, including playing smart and hard on defense, absolutely positively not. CV is starting to chuck again now too, and drifting out to the perimeter. Earlier in the year he was attacking the basket hard and often.

[blkout]

I think the fact their stats are even that close tells me Yi is the better player.

I'm not sure how you interpreted that. The stats are quite close, but CV is still superior in every meaningful one... not by a noticeable margin, but it was just to negate the stupid 0.43 PER difference or whatever it was. Not exactly a debate winner.

I think in this particular slump Yi is in, and considering CV's hit a slightly brownish purple patch, it wouldn't hurt to start him. Maybe if Yi came off the bench for a while he could take his shots with that unit and maybe shoot himself back into some form.

[howe070523]

The stats are quite close, but CV is still superior in every meaningful one... not by a noticeable margin, but it was just to negate the stupid 0.43 PER difference or whatever it was. Not exactly a debate winner.

lol, oh right. Agreed.
A third year player isnt MUCH better than a rookie is indeed stupid.

Back to the topic. Why are you guys so deadly agasint CV coming off bench? He has the green light to create, he takes more shots than Yi, Hes been playing more minutes recently. So, whats the problem? You think CV would get more shots when he's playing with Redd, Mo, Bogut?

Look around the league, guys like Barbosa, Ginobili, Stackhouse, etc they all come off the bench, and they are clearly better than the players in their starting line up.

[Sigra]

Again:

Yi get more minutes than CV = we can't stop our oponent and at PF position, for majority of minutes, we have player who can't finish inside the paint

CV get more minutes than Yi = We can't stop our oponent but at PF position, for majority of minutes, we have player who CAN finish inside the paint

Is that true or not?

[Sigra]

Or in short:

We can't stop anybody no metter who is our PF. So lets try to at lease score more. CV help there more than Yi. Much more

[Chapter29]

Sigra,

Yi is not the offensive threat that CV is. Yet. Nor is he the rebounder.

Yi is certainly a better defender than CV. He works harder and is smarter by far. Additionally he doesn't give you the every other no-effort game that CV loves to deliver.

Whether or not Yi is in the right role or not is clearly debatable, but CV is not worthy of being a starter. CV coming off the bench makes all the sense in the world. Let him come in and be a offensive spark off the bench. If he is working hard and hitting shots (very streaky player, not a very good pure shooter) he gets minutes, if he is not, he sits quickly and gets maybe 15. Rewarding players who don't work hard whether it be with off court effort like working out, on court effort or effort learning the system, plays and strategies just makes no sense to me.

Since our team is a joke again this year, I have no issue with playing Yi 30 plus mpg, in fact at this point just work Yi and Bogut more. Develop these guys, build some chemistry between the 2. They are the only 2 that I care about on this team.

[tidbit]

Europa and some others started up the conversation in the game thread. We are getting nothing much from Yi right now.

Rookie Wall?

Not that good a player?

Tired from non-stop play year-round?

Thoughts?

Does this guy become a great PF or just a nice average to below average starter?

Yi lost in recent games just because of Bogut's breakout, Bogut is in his contract year and Yi must and willing to help him to get a big contract.

Treat Yi like they treat K.Durant in Sonic, he can be the ROY...

[buckybadgerfan]

To say that CV is playing better than Yi is ignorance...

Numbers don't lie:

CV's 2007-08 Statistics
PPG 9.5
RPG 4.7
APG 0.8
SPG 0.2
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.435
FT% 0.746
3P% 0.302
MPG 20.3


Yi's 2007-08 Statistics
PPG 10.1
RPG 5.8
APG 0.9
SPG 0.7
BPG 1.1
FG% 0.442
FT% 0.816
3P% 0.333
MPG 27.5

Yi has slightly better stats overall offensively and defensively.
This is despite Yi shooting less frequently than CV. Look at shots per minutes played if you think Yi hoists more shots. His shooting percentages are higher despite you all saying he merely chucks from long distance and can't finish inside.

CV attempts a shot every 2.35 minutes of playing time. EFF +8.93
Yi attempts a shot every 3.06 minutes of playing time. EFF +11.64
(Durant attempts a FG every 1.9 minutes for comparison)

CV supporters like Sigra can blame Yi all they like. Fact is CV just isn't that much better than this foreign rookie despite having 2 more seasons of NBA under his belt.

Then also look at the trend now....Recently, he's fighting for his own shots and getting less playing time.

To say he hit the rookie wall is presumptive given that Yi is effectively being taken out of the game by his own team and coach much of the time.

[buckybadgerfan]

Sigra talks out of his A$$ much of the time. Blind fools like him don't know much about talent.

[blkout]

Yi has slightly better stats overall offensively and defensively.

That's because he plays 7 minutes per game more. Look up their per40 stats, I posted them earlier in the thread.

[icat2000]

-= original quote snipped =-



Yi lost in recent games just because of Bogut's breakout, Bogut is in his contract year and Yi must and willing to help him to get a big contract.

Treat Yi like they treat K.Durant in Sonic, he can be the ROY...

Yi is lost because Bogut had some good games? Bogut is not in his contract year.

The rest of your post I don't really understand.

[buckybadgerfan]

Or in short:

We can't stop anybody no metter who is our PF. So lets try to at lease score more. CV help there more than Yi. Much more

How many teams are looking for a Big Rookie who can do this?



Some stupid fans here will never see another championship with their current attitude of "can't win now so might as well trade our young talent".

Sigra aka "Blame the rookie"/CV homer.

[buckybadgerfan]

Yi has slightly better stats overall offensively and defensively.

That's because he plays 7 minutes per game more. Look up their per40 stats, I posted them earlier in the thread.

Yeah...But Yi is often starting against top performers and putting in more effort defensively.

You cant discount the fact that he is a rookie either

**thinking** this must be his 40ish game in the USA, right?

[buckybadgerfan]

Yi has slightly better stats overall offensively and defensively.

That's because he plays 7 minutes per game more. Look up their per40 stats, I posted them earlier in the thread.

Please refer to their game stats and especially their FGA per min played.

I posted them earlier.

[blkout]

What do they prove? The FGA per min if anything prove that Yi is less productive considering he takes more shots per minute yet their stats are virtually identical per 40, and per game stats are meaningless when making these sort of comparisons. Per 40 are much more accurate in determining who is playing better.

Look, if you want to ignore facts and just skew everything towards Yi's favour that's your choice, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously.