Bosh and contact

WaltFrazier · Post #1 » by **WaltFrazier** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 am

CB is obviously playing great recently. He is carrying the team, earning an all star nod, and generally being a franchise player. But one thing about his game still drives me crazy. I read this phrase on the Amare thread: "finishing through contact." I think CB must be the worst PF of his caliber at this. He is going to the basket more lately, and drawing fouls, and that's great. But he almost always shoots 2; he rarely finishes and gets the and-one. I wonder if there's a stat for this among the stat-gurus - % of and-ones per shooting foul or something. I'm sure he'd be near the bottom.

Anyone else notice this? And what's the solution? I have to think weight-lifting is the answer. Or is he always going to be like this, where slight contact or jostling causes him to miss the shot. (Not to mention how often he gets stripped and loses the ball in traffic.)

dTox · Post #2 » by **dTox** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am

actually i think bosh has enough and 1's, i dont think theres much holes in his offence at this point, he's doing pretty much everything needed

DKwan416 · Post #3 » by **DKwan416** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:15 am

wow. some people are just never satisfied.

with the number of free throws he shoots coupled with a great free throw shooting %... dont you realize that each one of his drives could have meant one less errant shot by himself or a teammate?

almost half his points (sometimes more than half) most nights come from the line, and the dude puts up 30. when i play basketball, if i knew that every time i drove to the basket i would get 2 free points regardless of whether i even want the ball to go in the net, i would friggin do it.

The NarrF · Post #4 » by **The NarrF** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:28 am

I can't fault Bosh for any of that.
I have on the other hand noticed a lot more this season that he doesn't have the handle around the hoop and often just turns the ball over trying to accept the pass.
Anyone else notice this. Mostly early in games.

dTox · Post #5 » by **dTox** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:34 am

tim duncan has horrible free throws lets all pick on him about that, wade cant shoot 3's wtf is up with that? kobe shoots too much? and i hate how nash has bad defence!

Arcman · Post #6 » by **Arcman** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:36 am

what a moronic thread. do you realize Bosh is one of the top players in getting to the line? the stats speak for themselves. he is near the top in terms of free throw attempts, not bottom as you ignorantly put it.

#9 according to nba.com (#2 for a big man after D. Howard)
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fr ... ll%20Teams

Nia · Post #7 » by **Nia** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:48 am

I would just ignore these threads because they come out once in a while when they think Bosh is not cutting it, or lets say today had an "off" game. It's the same with Bargs.

tetley · Post #8 » by **tetley** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:19 am

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the OP has a legit beef. I hate that Bosh can't finish after contact like a more powerful player like Amare or Dwight can. At the same time I realize that there are only a handful of players who can finish after getting hacked and I acknowledge that Bosh is one of the best bigmen in the league at getting to the line.

I don't think anyone can honestly say that they haven't wished Bosh was the same type finisher as, say, Amare, at one point or another.

Atheist · Post #9 » by **Atheist** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:20 am

Arcman wrote:what a moronic thread. do you realize Bosh is one of the top players in getting to the line? the stats speak for themselves. he is near the top in terms of free throw attempts, not bottom as you ignorantly put it.

#9 according to nba.com (#2 for a big man after D. Howard)
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fr ... ll%20Teams

Learn how to comprehend English before spouting off about moronic threads.

What he meant was Chris Bosh is likely near the bottom at finishing the hoop when getting fouled, not at the bottom at getting to the line.. But I don't think this is true as he always makes a good attempt at finishing when fouled, I have seen him on numerous occasions get fouled and blow easy layups, but that comes with the territory of being physically distracted from a foul.

Cut the guy some slack please.

grimlock · Post #10 » by **grimlock** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:23 am

Not many PFs in this league are given ISO plays, and get asked to produce by taking it to the net. KG maaaaaybe has to work as hard as Bosh does to get to the rim..

He is doing everything humanly possible to get to the rim, and even though he can't absorb contact to well.. he gets to the line enough

v1n5anity · Post #11 » by **v1n5anity** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:38 am

Sheesh you should've looked at the amount of times Bosh went to the line before starting this thread. :crazy:

joeyt618 · Post #12 » by **joeyt618** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:58 am

grimlock wrote:Not many PFs in this league are given ISO plays, and get asked to produce by taking it to the net. KG maaaaaybe has to work as hard as Bosh does to get to the rim..

He is doing everything humanly possible to get to the rim, and even though he can't absorb contact to well.. he gets to the line enough

Perfectly said. Amare is all power while Bosh is more of a finesse player. Most of the times when Amare gets fouled, he's already deep in the paint in mid-dunkage. Bosh, however, gets the ball from 18 feet and usually gets hacked before he even gets into the paint and any attempt at a basket afterwards is sheer strength and determination.

Also, although Amare has developed a pretty good mid-range jumper, most of his points still come from driving to the lane for a layup/dunk. Not only does that increase free throw attempts, but it also increases the likelihood of and1 situations. Considering Bosh still relies heavily on his mid-range jumpers, but yet still managing to get to the line 12 more times than Amare, I would say that's pretty impressive.

m1kenoff · Post #13 » by **m1kenoff** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:24 am

No, this is not one of Boshes problems at all. Boshes offensive game is almost flawless IMO.

If your going to fault Bosh for anything it has to be his atrocious team defense and his struggles on the defensive boards.

By the end of defensive posessions hes usually completely lost his man, and tries to go for a rebound but forgets that he was suppose to stick to his man no matter what in order to box him out. Sometimes I see Bargnani doing almost everything to secure the rebound, boxing out but he cannot physically get it because of his jumping inability whereas Bosh just gets bullied around.

bballin · Post #14 » by **bballin** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:35 am

v1n5anity wrote:Sheesh you should've looked at the amount of times Bosh went to the line before starting this thread.

This is about Bosh not finishing after contact, not getting to the line

Magic All The Way · Post #15 » by **Magic All The Way** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:15 pm

Actually, if I remember correctly, last year Bosh was one of the top players in converting 3-point plays. Meaning he had one of the most 3-point plays converted last year. Can some one look that up?

mwaschkowski · Post #16 » by **mwaschkowski** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:18 pm

No need for the hostility guys, just have a conversation about the topic brought up.

Bosh is getting to the line a lot, not sure about the basket and one plays. It might be interesting to know, but ultimately won't matter because as a more of a finesse player than a lot of PF he will be hacked for two free throws easier than the bigger PFs. Pretty much end of story.

Tommy Gun · Post #17 » by **Tommy Gun** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:19 pm

Magic All The Way wrote:Actually, if I remember correctly, last year Bosh was one of the top players in converting 3-point plays. Meaning he had one of the most 3-point plays converted last year. Can some one look that up?

http://www.82games.com/andone.htm

Bosh was 16th in the league in "and-one" attempts two years ago and 11th in the league last year.

The funny thing is that the OP has been making this exact argument for two year now and every time someone responds with the above facts he ignores them or doesnt responds. Very bizarre.

bballin · Post #18 » by **bballin** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:22 pm

Magic All The Way wrote:Actually, if I remember correctly, last year Bosh was one of the top players in converting 3-point plays. Meaning he had one of the most 3-point plays converted last year. Can some one look that up?

I think he is talking about this year

Graham's Cracker · Post #19 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:11 pm

I thought that And1 Bosh shot from behind the basket last night, should have counted. I have seen more generous continuation calls before. He seemed to let it go as soon as the whistle went and that was one nice shot.

I think it was that Big Fat Baby guy that fouled him.

Razzputin · Post #20 » by **Razzputin** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:29 pm

First of all, I don't agree with the premise of the OP's argument and I think that Bosh does an excellent job finishing with contact. The numbers posted earlier in this thread seem to back that up, for previous years at least. I can't imagine that he's doing significantly worse this year than he has in years past.

Secondly, maybe Bosh isn't as good a finisher as Howard or Stoudemire but they are probably 2 of the top 3 finishers (along with LBJ) in the league.

Finally, Bosh can create his offense starting from further out. I believe that Howard and Stoudemire get more of their shot attempts from Pick and Roll, after their PGs drive draw their man and find one of them for an alley oop or a dunk, after offensive rebounds and Amare at least gets a lot of points in transition.

These all are more likely to lead to a 3-point play than Bosh starting on the elbow, owning his defender and then being smashed by 2 other defenders as he gets the basket.

But, that doesn't make them better. I think what Bosh can do is very unique in the league. Who else scores the way he does as a PF or C?