Bucks/Suns Post Game

[unklchuk]

"I did notice the look Bell gave Ivey after Ivey smacked him on the back of the head after Bell drew a foul on a drive to the basket. Bell didn't look real happy about that."

I saw that too. Easy to make too much of that, but I will anyway. Looked like a litmus test of Bell's general disgruntlement. I could see the frown until Charlie figured out what was going on - but the frown lasted past that point.

And while I think Bell is playing decent lately - I still don't see the competitive fire that would make a modestly-talented guy like him good.

[EastSideBucksFan]

"I did notice the look Bell gave Ivey after Ivey smacked him on the back of the head after Bell drew a foul on a drive to the basket. Bell didn't look real happy about that."

I saw that too. Easy to make too much of that, but I will anyway. Looked like a litmus test of Bell's general disgruntlement. I could see the frown until Charlie figured out what was going on - but the frown lasted past that point.

And while I think Bell is playing decent lately - I still don't see the competitive fire that would make a modestly-talented guy like him good.

I think Ivey just gave him an approval smack on the back of the head like "good work" but in the heat of the moment hit him a little harder than he should of.

Bell just had this "sheesh, WTF?" kind of look on his face

[unklchuk]

"Unfortunately, a small market team can't afford to pay 15-18 million for a guy like that."

If we're to play with the big boys we have to pay like the big boys. Either match the resources, or get out of the way and let somebody else try. I have little patience for a "nice, little" small market team that hopes to win 51% of its games.

But I suppose whether Redd is worth it or not depends on whether you're right about his ordinariness - or whether I'm right that he can be a leading actor (one of them) on a contending team.

"And I think Mo could fill that role almost as well for 8.5 million per year."

Yah... well, we disagree there too. Mo I see as an important part of our offense during the bulk of the game, but not in crunch time. He can get those long-range jumpers during crunch time, but I don't want to win or lose based on the likelihood of those shots going in. And, in those situations, he doesn't create good shots for his teammates.

I think a lot of Mo's game (not untypical for a young player) is stuff he can pull off when the defense is NOT on red alert. But in crunch time IMO his game shrinks to long-range jumpers (which he's pretty good at, but not good enough).

I'm talking about Mo now. As a work in progress, I hope he grows.

Redd's decide-the-game skills are on a higher level. Not high enough to be a solution for us - but high enough to over time pull it off roughly as often as he fails. That's actually pretty good. But it's not winning basketball.

My hope for a solution to the individualism issues raised by Redd and Mo is for the whole team to become a smarter team. If they learn how to make each other more successful, Redd and Mo won't have to fly solo.

[Sigra]

unklchuk,

Do you want to say that under pressure Redd react better than Mo? Because if you do then you can't be more wrong

[unklchuk]

Well, my take on that isn't quite as simple as it could be. Decide for yourself how wrong I am.

I think Redd in crunch time over the past year or so (not just the last handful of games) has a better attack than Mo. Because he's doing more, I'd say he looks stupid as often as he looks like the hero. But he's a factor to be reckoned with.

When I've focused on Mo in crunch time, I usually see a guy dribbling and dribbling and failing to see anything he can do to run the offense - and then taking a long jump shot.

That line of action doesn't look stupid half of the time, but it doesn't give us a good shot at winning.

Does Mo have the personality that can make a clutch shot. Hell, yes. Does he at this point have the head to get his team a winning shot? I don't think so.

Perhaps my bottom line is that I think Redd at shooting guard is more clutch than Mo at point. (Because the standards are higher for PG.)

[Sigra]

When oponent's defense is bit relaxed Redd score points. When oponent play defense like it is war out there Redd can't do anything. In that situations Redd lose ball, miss over 2 defenders, shot over Prizbilla, can't go inside anymore, miss free throws. Redd score majority of his points against:

1. Teams that don't play agressive defense (Suns for examle)
2. When Bucks had -20 or so (oponent relax a bit)
3. In first 3 quarters (not so intense defense like it is in last quarter)

Mo show some of these signs as well but not nearly as much as Redd.

[unklchuk]

Sounds to me like you're describing the Redd of late. His recent subpar play hasn't convinced me to downgrade my evaluation of him (much)(yet). When your known by the competition as your team's only individual who has a chance at doing it all himself, you have to be a superstar to pull that off somewhat regularly. Aren't many (any?) of us that think he's a superstar.

Is Michael flying too close to the sun? I'd say yes. Can Mo fly high enough to fly too close to the sun? I don't really think so.

Thanks for trying to set me straight. But I'll hold my view and see what the future brings. You're welcome to the last word on this...

[midranger]

Redd has been beyond terrible in crunch time for 2.5 years now. I'm not sure how anyone could say otherwise. He is truly the anti-clutch.

From the forced shots, to the bad turnovers, to the 3 consecutive missed FTs, if you want Redd with the ball at the end of the game, you're borderline insane.

Mo hasn't been much better this year and has done some knuckleheaded things, (see Charlotte), but he's come up huge in crunchtime the past 2 years in several games.

[europa]

By his own admission, Redd is struggling to adapt to the change in offensive philosophy. That's not surprising given how he's been by far the best offensive player and top option for years and now has to share (or should be sharing) more of the responsibility with Bogut. I want to see how he adapts. If he can adapt and Bogut can continue at his current level, the Bucks will now have a strong foundation with a strong inside-outside game. If he can't adapt, then he'll need to be traded. Like I said in this or another thread (I can't remember anymore with all the Redd talk that's gone on), I think he's earned the right to be given the rest of this season to see if he can adapt.

[midranger]

I would submit our regular second half melt downs as evidence of Redd's crunch time ability.

[europa]

Then perhaps it's time to start getting the ball more consistently to Bogut during crunch time.

[unklchuk]

"Redd has been beyond terrible in crunch time for 2.5 years now. I'm not sure how anyone could say otherwise. He is truly the anti-clutch."

The Anti-Clutch? Golly gee wiz, that seems a little over the top. I still call him a player of special abilities who has pushed his game past reasonable limits - perhaps because he plays on a team that hasn't functioned as a team.

"From the forced shots, to the bad turnovers, to the 3 consecutive missed FTs, if you want Redd with the ball at the end of the game, you're borderline insane."

If Redd adapts to the Bucks' realization of Europa's inside/outside game, I will be hooting&clapping for the ball to be in Redd's hands - SOME of the time.

If that makes me insane, send pills...

[SheedsWeed]

Didn't get to comment, but even though we lost, I'm still somewhat optimistic. We held our own for pretty much the whole game, they just came back at us in the end. Seems like thats how a good amount of our games have been.

[DH34Phan]

If he can adapt and Bogut can continue at his current level, the Bucks will now have a strong foundation with a strong inside-outside game. If he can't adapt, then he'll need to be traded. Like I said in this or another thread (I can't remember anymore with all the Redd talk that's gone on), I think he's earned the right to be given the rest of this season to see if he can adapt.

I agree, but we don't need a role playing SG making 15, 17, and 18 million dollars the next 3 years.

We can get a SG for 5-7 million a year that can adapt playing with Bogut, and give us 16/5/3 on good shooting.

[icat2000]

What is Redd doing? Get out of the way of your bigs and let them do their job.

[Rockmaninoff]

(picture)
What is Redd doing? Get out of the way of your bigs and let them do their job.

This is part of the Larry K. philosophy. Hold the guards back to rebound, rather than have them (or even one) leak out for Bogut outlet passes (Walton style) and potentially easy points.