Is it time to ship Odom out?

[B-Scott]

Reggie Evans has put together 4 game streaks of 14 rpg, so no, LeBron James would not like to have him and neither would the Cavs. They already are the best rebounding team in the league with AV, Big Z, and Gooden. Kid.

If the Lakers offered Lamar for Drew Gooden,the Cavs would accept that in a heartbeat.

[EHL]

^ rofl, as if I even contended that. Drew Gooden is a below average PF. Hell, maybe he's average. Not sure what your point is other than to expose to everyone here that your expectations for Lamar are that low. Gooden is a career underachiever and dunce. Remind you of anyone on the Lakers?

[dockingsched]

lamar isn't even that good in the fast break anyway. thats the most widely accepted myth i've seen about him. he's a turnover waiting to happen when hes leading the break. once i see him turn on the turbo boost, its almost always a charge, bad pass, or fumble out of bounds.

[That Nicka]

-= original quote snipped =-



If the Lakers offered Lamar for Drew Gooden,the Cavs would accept that in a heartbeat.

Actually I asked the fans on the Cavs board a few months ago if they would trade Lamar for Gooden and a filler and they said Hell No

reasons being:
1) why would they trade Gooden for someone who puts up the same stats for double the money
2) They already have an overpaid under-acheiver in Larry Hughes, and they are not dying to add a 2nd one

[B-Scott]

For the Season

Drew Gooden - 44.6% shooting. 12 points and 8.8 rebounds. Over the last 5 games he is averaging 7.5 rebounds a game.

Lamar Odom - 46.4% shooting - 13.4 points and 9.7 rebounds. Over the last 5 games he is averaging 13 rebounds a game.


The only reason why it's this close is because LO got off to a slow start because of the injury. He really averages about 3 more boards a game then Drew Gooden and is a lot more versatile.

What did Gooden do when Lebron was out and what has Lamar done when Kobe was out?

LO - 20 points 11 boards 5 assist in games without Kobe

Drew Gooden looks like Luke Walton without Lebron. He can't even get off his shot.

[B-Scott]

Gooden vs Lamar there last 3 Head to Head matchups

Earlier this season

Gooden -2-8 from the field 4 points and 5 rebounds

Lamar - 9-12 from the field 19 points and 11 rebounds


Last Season

Lamar had 20 points and 8 boards in one game and 11 points and 11 boards in the next.

Gooden had 7 points and 9 boards in one of the games and 12 and 6 in the other.


LO is averaging close to 17 points and 10 boards against Gooden over there last 3 meetings and Gooden is averaging 8 points and 7 rebounds .

Thats more dominant then Floyd Mayweather over Ricky Hatton last month.

[LLcoleJ]

B-, why does LO pass the ball when he is in the post? Especially when he has the mismatch? Please dont say he was doubled team with Duncan. Because he held the ball too long and gave TD plenty of time to get over to help. He passes out of the post more than he is not fed in the post, fact.

[B-Scott]

The Spurs did double him in the post and we got 3 wide open looks from it in the 3rd quarter.

1. Fisher's wide open 3 at the 7:33 mark of the quarter. LO posted up and the Spurs came with the double. He kicked out to Kobe,who passed to Fisher for the open 3.

2. Lamar posted up and Duncan came to help out. Kwame had a wide open layup and missed.

3. Lamar posted up. The Spurs collapsed and Sasha had a wide open 15 footer.


I agree Lamar does not have multiple low post moves,but for some reason teams respect him and run double teams at him,which results in wide open looks for teammates. My point is can we run the offense through him and Kobe in the post and never post up Luke and Kwame.

[dockingsched]

for all this talk about odom posting i guarantee you that tomorrow against the mavs odom will stand at the 3 point line and just swing it side to side. he won't post up even once. watch.

[B-Scott]

Phil - I agree he holds on to the ball to long. I hate when he does that

He needs to face up and make his move a lot quicker

[milesfides]

The reason that Odom passes out of the post even when he has a mismatch is due to the fact that he has NEVER been a reliable post player, ever. He's just not a back-to-the-basket guy.

He'll pass out even if a 6'5" guy guards him, because he doesn't know how to adjust. He lowered his shoulder into Ime Udoka, like Udoka was a regular power forward instead of a guard trying to draw the charge. It's because Odom is inexperienced in the post and doesn't have any reliable post moves.

Odom doesn't have a post spin move. He doesn't have a face-up bank shot. He doesn't have a hook. No fakes, no pumps, no real post skills. He's not comfortable there, he envisions himself as a big guard, which is why he struggles in the post.

What Odom tries to do when he gets the ball in the post? Turn around, face the basket, and try to lay the ball in. It's predictable, which is why he gets blocked so frequently. I remember a recent Jazz game when Kirilenko blocked him two or three possessions in a row, because Odom would try to do the same exact left drive over and over again. It's the same reason that Odom commits so many offensive fouls. He's not a creative scorer with many reliable skills.

Odom's best offensive move is a power rebound, pushing the ball up the court, and laying the ball in with his left hand. That's the only thing he does with any sort of regular success.

His three-point shot left him 2 years ago, he never had a midrange game, and he's not a post player. Where are his points going to come from?

The reason why Odom has so much trouble scoring is not so much that he's unselfish, it's that he's never been a talented scorer. When he's tries to be more aggressive, it usually ends up in bad shots.

So, bottom line, just let him focus on rebounding and defense, and let him do his one-man fast break thing.

For our scoring, I suggest playing Turiaf and Farmar (and even Sasha) more.

Turiaf is a must because he is our best big man help defender, and our best big man scorer. If we don't play him enough, our team will continue to force the ball into post with bad results.

[EHL]

It's always funny when B-Scott brings up Odom's career games without Kobe, which really are overinflated and ignore sample size. During any long stretch of games without Kobe, or just generally period, Odom doesn't diverge too much rom his career numbers without him.

In 04-05, in 15 games without Kobe, LO goes 18.6/10.0/5.2/43.5% FGP. Lakers were a .545 team when Kobe went down that year, and they were a .521 team when Kobe came back (7-8 ). This despite the fact the Lakers played .461 lottery competition during those 15 games, with 9 games at Staples and 6 on the road. Not a huge sample size but the best we've got.

Since 04-05 Odom has only played 5 games without Kobe, all sporadically, and that is where he has had his best games and where his averages get inflated. Even then, Lakers were 2-3 with LO and without Kobe after 04-05, 9-11 overall with Odom leading the way, and leading a nearly fully healthy Lakers lineup mind you, unlike Kobe who had to deal with massive injuries and a buzzsaw road schedule the 2nd half of 04-05, with LO not even attempting to come back.

[EHL]

Gooden vs Lamar there last 3 Head to Head matchups

Earlier this season

Gooden -2-8 from the field 4 points and 5 rebounds

Lamar - 9-12 from the field 19 points and 11 rebounds

Last Season

Lamar had 20 points and 8 boards in one game and 11 points and 11 boards in the next.

Gooden had 7 points and 9 boards in one of the games and 12 and 6 in the other.


LO is averaging close to 17 points and 10 boards against Gooden over there last 3 meetings and Gooden is averaging 8 points and 7 rebounds .

Thats more dominant then Floyd Mayweather over Ricky Hatton last month.

Oh oh, limited sample sizes are so fun. Here's a great one.

Kurt Thomas vs. LO last two meetings:

KT: 11.5/11/0.5/2.5/53%FGP

LO: 13/11/3.5/0.5/32%FGP

KT is 35 years old and is in the last year of his contract at $8.1M. LO is 28 years old and is in the 2nd to last year of his contract, earning $13.5M this year and $14.6 next. KT > LO, statistically and especially per dollar despite a huge age difference. See, I proved it!

Just sad.

[crazyeights]

Wow. I have to say these is the most productive Lamar bashing thread I've read in a long time. And I've read quite a few.

Miles, your post is dead on, unfortunately. It made so much sense, it actually blew my mind. I feel like what I've witnessed is finally matching up with what I'm being told. As dcash brought up, one of the biggest myths is Lamar's leading the break abilities, unless he does his one man layup drill move.

I originally joined realgm to defend Lamar when we went on a five-game skid. Since then I've always thought Lamar was the perfect third option. Let's just wait until Bynum gets back into a grove and let Lamar continue to be the limited but lovable guy that he is.

I'm pretty much sold that we're never going to find a trade that the FO would actually pull off. I think Kobe likes Lamar too much, they've gone through too much these past few years to just let him go, especially when there's not the perfect player out there.

His salary? I don't really care anymore. We needed it to do trade Shaq. He is overpaid, but guess what I'm not Jerry Buss, so oh well.

Though I do wonder, do we actually think he's going to take a paycut? I don't think that Marion is that much better (if at all) than Odom, but he's the highest paid player on the Suns.

I don't believe Odom thinks the same about himself that we've finally come to the conclusion on this board. I think he's going to be paid relatively well, but we'll see.

Either way, just wanted to say great civil debate.

[critical_beatdown]

lamar isn't even that good in the fast break anyway. thats the most widely accepted myth i've seen about him. he's a turnover waiting to happen when hes leading the break. once i see him turn on the turbo boost, its almost always a charge, bad pass, or fumble out of bounds.

Winter has encouraged Jackson to look for more pure running opportunities, something that owner Jerry Buss has wanted for years.

The running game would take advantage of what Lamar Odom does best, which is rebound on the defensive end and power out on the break with the ball (like Magic Johnson so often did for Showtime in the Laker days of yore), Winter said.

Rookie Jordan Farmar, of course, is perhaps a key to improved guard play. He knows the game and has shown a knack early in summer league play for the offense, Winter said.

[critical_beatdown]

B-, why does LO pass the ball when he is in the post? Especially when he has the mismatch? Please dont say he was doubled team with Duncan. Because he held the ball too long and gave TD plenty of time to get over to help. He passes out of the post more than he is not fed in the post, fact.

Duncan was doubling over very quickly, I suggest you review the tape again. Also, when Lamar did get the ball in the post, it resulted in three wide open shots, only one of which went down. Those are good possessions, whether or not the shot goes down, much better than trying to force something over a Duncan double team.

[critical_beatdown]

for all this talk about odom posting i guarantee you that tomorrow against the mavs odom will stand at the 3 point line and just swing it side to side. he won't post up even once. watch.

Guarantee? This ought to be interesting, what's going to be your excuse when you are wrong, that you were just being flippant while ganging up on B-Scott?

[critical_beatdown]

The reason that Odom passes out of the post even when he has a mismatch is due to the fact that he has NEVER been a reliable post player, ever. He's just not a back-to-the-basket guy.

"He's one of the best open-floor players in the game for his size, but his post abilities are remarkable"

In particular, the team needs to look for ways to feature Odom in the post, where he has shown real effectiveness.

[critical_beatdown]

lamar isn't even that good in the fast break anyway. thats the most widely accepted myth i've seen about him. he's a turnover waiting to happen when hes leading the break. once i see him turn on the turbo boost, its almost always a charge, bad pass, or fumble out of bounds.

This is a silly comment in the first place, because anyone who knows Lamar's game knows he thrives in the open floor, that most of his charges actually come in the halfcourt game, and that he rarely turns the ball over on the break.

[milesfides]

The running game would take advantage of what Lamar Odom does best, which is rebound on the defensive end and power out on the break with the ball (like Magic Johnson so often did for Showtime in the Laker days of yore), Winter said.

The difference is that Odom doesn't creates on the break, but takes it himself. Magic? Magic was magic on the break. Aside from being tall and being able to dribble, I think the similarities end there.

"He's one of the best open-floor players in the game for his size, but his post abilities are remarkable"

Phil always says crazy things. Like, after Bynum's great start to this season: "I would imagine Kwame would go back to being a starter."

Phil plays good cop or bad cop with some players. He's always played good cop with Lamar, perhaps using encouragement to instill confidence.

In particular, the team needs to look for ways to feature Odom in the post, where he has shown real effectiveness.

Tex Winters also said this about Odom, "He