OT: Jim O'Brien talks about Chris Webber

[Rondo_Fan]

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Obie was asked to resign in Jan. of 2004 and he did. In his span as Celtic head coach there may have been maybe 5 young players worth mentioning: Joe Johnson, Marcus Banks, Kendrick Perkins, Kedrick Brown and JR Bremer.

Again I ask, what young players did we have that stood out? Maybe just Joe Johnson. Maybe Kendrick Perkins (taken this kid 5 years to only be mediocre starting Center in this league).

Bottomline, we had no youngsters back then. We had a veteran squad who could adapt and learn the schemes of a coaching staff that wanted to win and wanted to get out of the shadow that Rick Pitino left behind.

1. You left out guys like Al Jefferson and Delonte West, who were on our team when Jim O'Brien was coach.

2. Of course no young guys were worth mentioning when he was around, because he never let them see the floor. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't see Jim O'Brien as a bad coach. He's a serviceable middle-of-the-roader with his own tendencies, as all coaches have their own tendencies. Part of the Jim O'Brien package is that he strongly prefers to play vets before young players. Whether or not that is desirable is a good subject for debate, but you seem to want to debate whether or not he approaches the game that way in the first place.

?

[PPAW4Life]

Please check your facts again. I know it was a long time ago, but Al and Delonte never played for Jim O'Brien or the next head coach John Carroll.

Fans need to face the fact that we had no legit youngsters....they all sucked back then because of poor drafting.

One thing DA could do was draft and trade his stud draft picks.

[Rondo_Fan]

Please check your facts again. I know it was a long time ago, but Al and Delonte never played for Jim O'Brien or the next head coach John Carroll.

Fans need to face the fact that we had no legit youngsters....they all sucked back then because of poor drafting.

One thing DA could do was draft and trade his stud draft picks.

You're right about Al and Delonte. We got them the season after Jim O'Brien left.

But it's not true that we had no legit youngsters under Jim O'Brien.

One of them is starting for our team this year, which has the best record in the N.B.A.

Do you think that it would have been asking too much of Jim O'Brien to put Perkins into a game once in a while, considering that we were customarily out-rebounded by around 10 boards a game during O'Brien's last year, and considering that Tommy routinely said on the air that year that Kendrick Perkins was the Celtics best rebounder in practice that year? Sometimes you just need a big body under the boards, for 5 or 10 minutes a game, NBA experience or not. O'Brien was unwilling to do that.

[EJay33]

"back then"?

From JO'B's point of view, you say to yourself, "I'm no Red Auerbach. I'm the kind of guy who's going to bounce around the league and have to look for a new job every couple of years. So the hell with trying to develop young players. My next interview in a GM's office, I don't want to have to do a lot of arm-waving about my winning percentage, and how I was trying to develop young players. I just want my winning percentage to be as high as possible."

Understandable. <Shrugs>

You're criticizing the the coach of an NBA team for trying to win basketball games? Obie inherited a team that Pitino routinely finished 10 games below .500 with, and actually had a couple of decent seasons. And after he left, Carrol went in the tank, too. It's not uncommon for high school players to not play much in their first year, especially one who was a late first round pick like Perkins. It's hard to believe he was ready to compete at the NBA level in his rookie year. Also Boston was not outrebounded by 10 per game during the Obie years, and Jefferson and West were not on the team yet.

I think based on O'Brien's work with the Celtics, he certainly deserved another shot at an NBA job. The goal of the league is still to win, not to develop the Kendrick Browns, Jiri Welschs, Marcus Banks', and Brandon Hunters of the world. He led the Celtics to their most exciting years (obviously until this year) since Chris Ford was coach. And those years were exciting because the Celts still had Bird suiting up.

Imagine if he did play all those guys significant minutes and he was in an interview? "Hey Jim, why did you go 5-77 with the 2004 Celtics?" "I thought it was a good idea to get Jiri, Kendrick, Marcus, and Brandon as many minutes as possible.."

Give the guy a break!!

[Rondo_Fan]

Imagine if he did play all those guys significant minutes and he was in an interview? "Hey Jim, why did you go 5-77 with the 2004 Celtics?" "I thought it was a good idea to get Jiri, Kendrick, Marcus, and Brandon as many minutes as possible.."

Give the guy a break!!

1) I said that whether or not it was a good idea to play only veterans would be the subject of a good debate

2) I said pretty much exactly what you say in the above paragraph already, and said that Jim O'Brien's point of view was understandable:

He was thinking about his nexom JO'B's point of view, you say to yourself, "I'm no Red Auerbach. I'm the kind of guy who's going to bounce around the league and have to look for a new job every couple of years. So the hell with trying to develop young players. My next interview in a GM's office, I don't want to have to do a lot of arm-waving about my winning percentage, and how I was trying to develop young players. I just want my winning percentage to be as high as possible."

Understandable. <Shrugs>

How do you get "criticize" out of that? It's the same thing you said. Exactly.

This board seems to have two basic camps of posters. One group just wants to talk about basketball (I'm in this group), and the other group is like teenaged jersey-wearers, who sees anything but 100% praise for any member of the Celtics franchise, past, present, or future, as an attack on their "family".

Get a life.

[EJay33]

How do I get "Criticize" out of that? Gee Rondo Fan, I don't know, it might've been the part where you said:

O'Brien was a terrible coach here. He had no idea whatsoever of how to develop young players, and we had a lot of them. At the beginning of this year I thought that O'Brien might be an ideal coach for this year's team, since we are mostly vets now, but I'm not even sure about that anymore. I don't think that our team would play for him.

Also I wish I posted here more often so you could see how ridiculous your comment to me was. I am just happy to be at a point now as a Celtics fan where every single thing I think about the franchise isn't critical. Was O'Brien's Celtics a championship contender? No. Was he a terrible coach here? Absolutely not.

[Rondo_Fan]

I am just happy to be at a point now as a Celtics fan where every single thing I think about the franchise isn't critical.

Maybe when you evolve a little bit more, you'll get to the point where every single thing you think about posters isn't negative.

You're just a mod in sheep's clothing.

I repeat: get a life.

People don't come here to be fan-boys.

[PPAW4Life]

If you didn't play defense, you were not going to play for Obie.

Perkins was probably 80-100 pounds overweight as a rookie. He just could not play the rotating type defense that Obie and Harter employed.

Another thing for sure is that Rondo would never be able to start or play 20 minutes for Obie....Rondo's defense is horrible.

[Rondo_Fan]

If you didn't play defense, you were not going to play for Obie.

Obie sacrificed all for the immortal Eric Williams, just because he played defense.

Kind of brings a tear to my eye. <Sniff>

What was our ceiling with Eric Williams, a) much much worse than New Jersey, b) much worse than New Jersey, or c) worse than New Jersey? I can't remember, but it was one of the three.

Definitely no need to take chances and shake up your lineup.

Just steer the veteran boat towards that .500 winning percentage and your next job.

Good ol' Charlie Brow....

I mean, Good ol' Jim O'Brien.

[PPAW4Life]

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Obie sacrificed all for the immortal Eric Williams, just because he played defense.

Kind of brings a tear to my eye. <Sniff>

What was our ceiling with Eric Williams, a) much much worse than New Jersey, b) much worse than New Jersey, or c) worse than New Jersey? I can't remember, but it was one of the three.

Definitely no need to take chances and shake up your lineup.

Just steer the veteran boat towards that .500 winning percentage and your next job.

Good ol' Charlie Brow....

I mean, Good ol' Jim O'Brien.

How long did New Jersey stay on top? Not very long at all.

[Rondo_Fan]

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How long did New Jersey stay on top? Not very long at all.

Put Jim O'Brien and Danny Ainge in a room together today, January 25, 2008.

Which one are you taking to put your team together?

If your answer is different than it would have been during Jim O'Brien's tenure as coach of the Boston Celtics, please don't hate on those of us who weren't so slow on the uptake.

I hope this helps.

[UHar_Vinnie]

I still cannot understand to this day why JOB gets so much hate on this board. Don't you all remember how horrible and hopeless the Pitino days were (preceded by the ML Carr days, of course). The year in which JOB took over, Pitino quit on us just before the tough West Coast trip, at 12-22. JOB takes over with the same roster, goes 24-24 the rest of the way despite facing the toughest part of the schedule. The next season he takes the team to the ECF, and the following season an upset win over the Pacers in the first round. Even in his last, partial season, the team was only 2 games below .500; otherwise, his team was well above .500 in prior seasons. He knows how to maximize results from, let's face it, what was a pretty pathetic roster.

It's absolutely untrue to say JOB did not play the rookies and young players. Look at the facts. In 2000-2001, both Blount and Palacios got significant minutes as rookies. In 2001-2002, Joe Johnson started most games in the early season until he lost his job to Kendrick Brown (after 5 games, Kendrick went down with an injury) and Johnson was traded by Wallace. Next season, JR Bremer was his starter at PG. In his last season, Marcus Banks played all 81 games and Jiri Welsch started 68 games. Perk was an out of shape high schooler in his first season. Joe Forte was, well, Joe Forte. Who else was he supposed to develop? Jerome Moiso? Ruben Wolkowski? Bruno Sundov? Give me a break.

People complain about how the games he coached was unwatchable because of all the 3 pointers. But look at the roster he had. Aside from Pierce and, to a lesser extent, Antoine the Celtics had no bona fide NBA starters on the team. No post presence whatsoever - it's a myth that Antoine was ever a great post player, except maybe his rookie year; he could never finish well around the basket and he wasn't willing to do play the post. Moreover, the 3-point chucking started in the Pitino years. Other than Pierce and Kenny Anderson, they really had no one who could knock down mid-range jumpers with any accuracy. His "system" was his way of extracting the most from the untalented group he inherited.

He really rescued us from perhaps the darkest years of this great franchise. I don't think I could have taken the Cs sucking for another 4 seasons after ML and Pitino. There is really no reason to hate him. Just let it go, please.

[UHar_Vinnie]

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1. You left out guys like Al Jefferson and Delonte West, who were on our team when Jim O'Brien was coach.

Absolutely incorrect. Jim's last season was 2003-2004. Al and Delonte were drafted in the off-season of 2004.

[Rondo_Fan]

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Absolutely incorrect. Jim's last season was 2003-2004. Al and Delonte were drafted in the off-season of 2004.

Please read the thread before reposting stuff that is already in it.

And please answer my question.

Who are you taking to put your team together, Jim O'Brien or Danny Ainge?

Thought so.

That's not "hate".

That's just a reasonable analysis of the facts.

I hope this helps.

[Rondo_Fan]

He really rescued us from perhaps the darkest years of this great franchise. I don't think I could have taken the Cs sucking for another 4 seasons after ML and Pitino. There is really no reason to hate him. Just let it go, please.

This is so hypocritical I just can't let it go.

Danny blew up the team because it was the only choice we had as far as trying to get the team back on course for a championship. The technical term for Danny's choice to blow up the team is "no-brainer".

The Jim O'Brien plan was to continue on course so that the darkest years of this great franchise would never have ended.

Long live mediocrity! Don't rock the boat!

Maybe he'll have to resign in Indiana if Larry Bird tries to trade Jeff Foster or something.

I hope this helps.

[UHar_Vinnie]

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Please read the thread before reposting stuff that is already in it.

And please answer my question.

Who are you taking to put your team together, Jim O'Brien or Danny Ainge?

Thought so.

That's not "hate".

That's just a reasonable analysis of the facts.

I hope this helps.

Ugh, you do realize the difference between a GM and a coach, right? Wallace was the GM during O'Brien's tenure.

[PPAW4Life]

[quote="Rondo_Fan"][/quote]

Jim O'Brien's plan was to WIN.

Danny Ainge's plan was to lose and develop.

When did Danny's plan change to WIN?

Answer: When his assembled youth lost 18 straight games...a franchise record.

[Rondo_Fan]

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Jim O'Brien's plan was to WIN.

Danny Ainge's plan was to lose and develop.

When did Danny's plan change to WIN?

Answer: When his assembled youth lost 18 straight games...a franchise record.

Are you nuts?

We have the best record in the NBA.

Jim O'Brien was the guy who fought the plan.

Are you nuts?