Is it time to ship Odom out?

[critical_beatdown]

The reason that Odom passes out of the post even when he has a mismatch is due to the fact that he has NEVER been a reliable post player, ever. He's just not a back-to-the-basket guy.

"He's one of the best open-floor players in the game for his size, but his post abilities are remarkable"

In particular, the team needs to look for ways to feature Odom in the post, where he has shown real effectiveness.

[critical_beatdown]

lamar isn't even that good in the fast break anyway. thats the most widely accepted myth i've seen about him. he's a turnover waiting to happen when hes leading the break. once i see him turn on the turbo boost, its almost always a charge, bad pass, or fumble out of bounds.

This is a silly comment in the first place, because anyone who knows Lamar's game knows he thrives in the open floor, that most of his charges actually come in the halfcourt game, and that he rarely turns the ball over on the break.

[milesfides]

The running game would take advantage of what Lamar Odom does best, which is rebound on the defensive end and power out on the break with the ball (like Magic Johnson so often did for Showtime in the Laker days of yore), Winter said.

The difference is that Odom doesn't creates on the break, but takes it himself. Magic? Magic was magic on the break. Aside from being tall and being able to dribble, I think the similarities end there.

"He's one of the best open-floor players in the game for his size, but his post abilities are remarkable"

Phil always says crazy things. Like, after Bynum's great start to this season: "I would imagine Kwame would go back to being a starter."

Phil plays good cop or bad cop with some players. He's always played good cop with Lamar, perhaps using encouragement to instill confidence.

In particular, the team needs to look for ways to feature Odom in the post, where he has shown real effectiveness.

Tex Winters also said this about Odom, "He

[Joe Kleazy]

As I come back to read the rest of this thread I think I have figured out why I really have these feelings about odom. It is due to B-Scott constantly giving me half-azzed stats and praise for what odom can do which always hampered by kobe. Let the man stand on his own two feet.


I dont necessarily want to ship him out I just want him to stop playing passive, soft, b****ly. Scott you cant say that anyone has control over this other than lamar himself. The contract thing hurts BUT I will have alot of respect for odom if when his contract expires he takes one for the team and takes a contract that better reflects what he provides with NO FLACK WHATSOEVER.

SCOTT you can pair odom with whoever you want but he will still only drive left, commit multiple offensive fouls, get a few rebounds and play passive. You want him to get the ball in the post yet he has NO post game. A smart player would realize that seeing as though Kareem is around practices from time to time tutoring bynum......................Why dont I take my azz over there and learn a few things about the post. Does he do that NO. Is it pride or just ignorance?


It seems like kobe truley likes lamar and when bynum was playing odom fit better and maybe his criticism will dissapear when he re-negotiates his contract, but until then if he cant add anything else to his game he at least needs to play like he belongs out there and be aggresive.

[Sedale Threatt]

The only time Lamar shows any "real effectiveness" in the post is when he's got a size mismatch. And as we saw against Finley the other night, even then it's not a given.

As Miles wrote a few pages ago, and as I and others have been pointing out for most of the season, Lamar's biggest problem is that he has no real post game.

Nobody's expecting him to be Olajuwon, who had a vast arsenal of moves and a counter for each. But Lamar doesn't even have more than two. All I see him ever do is try to power in for layups or hoist up jump hooks -- and neither of those really constitute as true post moves.

Frankly, he has no real offensive game, period. It's all playground stuff, paired with a mediocre (at best) jump shot. And you want to run your offense through that? Thanks, but no thanks. He's never been capable of doing it before -- and don't give me that mediocre Miami team that got bounced in the first round -- and he never will.

And you know what? That's just fine. With Lamar as our second-best player, we struggle to make the playoffs. But as our third-best? Now we start to look pretty good, as we saw in the weeks before Bynum went down. Fluke or not, we were No. 1 in the conference, and you're damn right Lamar was an integral role in that.

We just need to buckle down and weather the storm until Bynum gets back. Nobody said this was going to be easy.

[Dexmor]

Mitch turned down Marion for Odom to. What a dipsit.

[LLcoleJ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Duncan was doubling over very quickly, I suggest you review the tape again. Also, when Lamar did get the ball in the post, it resulted in three wide open shots, only one of which went down. Those are good possessions, whether or not the shot goes down, much better than trying to force something over a Duncan double team.

I watched the "tape" and he held the ball for quite a long time when udoka was on him. If he is in the post and he has a mismatch he should not hesitate. He did, Duncan came over.
LO had plenty of time to make a move before Duncan came over.

[LLcoleJ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Guarantee? This ought to be interesting, what's going to be your excuse when you are wrong, that you were just being flippant while ganging up on B-Scott?

Many of us here myself dcash and co. Actually like LO. You seem to be under the impression that we do this for sport. However, there are obvious things that LO is not doing within in the system that he can and should be doing.

[B-Scott]

The running game would take advantage of what Lamar Odom does best, which is rebound on the defensive end and power out on the break with the ball (like Magic Johnson so often did for Showtime in the Laker days of yore), Winter said.

The difference is that Odom doesn't creates on the break, but takes it himself. Magic? Magic was magic on the break. Aside from being tall and being able to dribble, I think the similarities end there.

"He's one of the best open-floor players in the game for his size, but his post abilities are remarkable"

Phil always says crazy things. Like, after Bynum's great start to this season: "I would imagine Kwame would go back to being a starter."

Phil plays good cop or bad cop with some players. He's always played good cop with Lamar, perhaps using encouragement to instill confidence.

In particular, the team needs to look for ways to feature Odom in the post, where he has shown real effectiveness.

Tex Winters also said this about Odom, "He

[That Nicka]

The only time Lamar shows any "real effectiveness" in the post is when he's got a size mismatch. And as we saw against Finley the other night, even then it's not a given.

As Miles wrote a few pages ago, and as I and others have been pointing out for most of the season, Lamar's biggest problem is that he has no real post game.

Nobody's expecting him to be Olajuwon, who had a vast arsenal of moves and a counter for each. But Lamar doesn't even have more than two. All I see him ever do is try to power in for layups or hoist up jump hooks -- and neither of those really constitute as true post moves.

Frankly, he has no real offensive game, period. It's all playground stuff, paired with a mediocre (at best) jump shot. And you want to run your offense through that? Thanks, but no thanks. He's never been capable of doing it before -- and don't give me that mediocre Miami team that got bounced in the first round -- and he never will.

And you know what? That's just fine. With Lamar as our second-best player, we struggle to make the playoffs. But as our third-best? Now we start to look pretty good, as we saw in the weeks before Bynum went down. Fluke or not, we were No. 1 in the conference, and you're damn right Lamar was an integral role in that.

We just need to buckle down and weather the storm until Bynum gets back. Nobody said this was going to be easy.

+1

It will be very interesting when its time to negotiate his new contract.... Like I said before, I personally, wouldnt go over 8 mil a year

[That Nicka]

Once again B-Scott... Lamar never has played with LeBron and probably never will.... and no one on this board cares about how you envision the fast break with Lamar and LeBron in your little mind

[B-Scott]

Your not even reading my points. Your just focusing on that one comment

[That Nicka]

As for the Triangle. Tex makes some good points,but why doesnt he explain the Lakers going to Luke Walton and Kwame Brown more in the post then Lamar Odom. The current Lakers are the only team in NBA history who would give Lamar and Luke Walton more post up touches then Lamar Odom.

It's actually a very simple solution. Be straight up and tell Luke and Kwame to stop trying to post up which creates traffic in the paint. You got Kobe on one side trying to post up and Luke or Kwame on the other side. This shouldn't be a competetion as to who jumps to the post 1st.

Luke and Kwame shouldn't even attempt to post up. Just have the mindset that LO and Kobe will be in the post. Kwame focus on defense,rebounding and putbacks and Luke just focus on knocking down that 3 and Mid-Range jumpers when LO and Kobe post up.

The guys whi draw the double teams and respect from the opposing teams should be the ones posting up. It has been proven that LO and Kobe draw double teams in the post. It has not been proven that Luke and Kwame draw double teams.

The Triangle is a motion/free-flowing offense... Kwame and Luke post up because

1) They can
2) They (THEMSELVES) go to positions where they think they best have an opportunity to score on that play..

Anybody can go in the post.... Derek Fisher could if he wanted to but there isnt anybody in the league that he would have an advantage on... When GP was here he went to the post all the time....

Point is, Stop trying to find other people to blame for Lamar not being agressive... Its his own fault

[That Nicka]

Your not even reading my points. Your just focusing on that one comment

I wasnt done yet

[B-Scott]

They can? Luke Walton can't even get his shot off in the post. How many times did Shawn Marion block his shot. Your not watching the games. Elite small forwards treat Luke like a 10 year old kid. Paul Pierce just ripped without any problem on multiple possessions and blocked his shot like he was some CBA player.

In the 80s when AC Green or Mychal Thompson attempted to post up ,Magic would give them that look (Get out the Post)

Worthy get in the post

It's called being vocal and understanding who can and can not post up. Luke and Kwame should not be trying to post up.

LO and Kobe in the post 90% of the time with Bynum out the lineup. It results in more wide open shots for teammates.

3rd quarter last game we had 3 wide open looks from LO in the post. Over the last 5 games,i dont think we have gotten one open shot from Luke or Kwame down there. Nobody double teams them.

[That Nicka]

They can? Luke Walton can't even get his shot off in the post. How many times did Shawn Marion block his shot. Your not watching the games. Elite small forwards treat Luke like a 10 year old kid. Paul Pierce just ripped without any problem on multiple possessions and blocked his shot like he was some CBA player.

Im not saying "they can" as iin they are beasts in the post... Im saying "they can" as in ANYONE CAN GO TO THE POST IN THE TRIANGLE... Its not hard at all, you run down, set a screen for whoever is down there and they pop out... or you call for a screen from the perimeter from whoever is in the post

In the 80s when AC Green or Mychal Thompson attempted to post up ,Magic would give them that look (Get out the Post)

Worthy get in the post

I really wish you understood how annoying this was

It's called being vocal and understanding who can and can not post up. Luke and Kwame should not be trying to post up.

Uhm what? Kwame is 7 feet tall.. Where should he be? standing on the 3 point line with Odom?? Luke is actually decent in the post, but for some reason you keep going back to one PHX game where he got outplayed by a better defender and a better player and took a few shots in the post late iin the shot clock when everyone else was stagnant

Bottom line is; In the triangle offense, you pick your spots


LO and Kobe in the post 90% of the time with Bynum out the lineup. It results in more wide open shots for teammates.

3rd quarter last game we had 3 wide open looks from LO in the post. Over the last 5 games,i dont think we have gotten one open shot from Luke or Kwame down there. Nobody double teams them.[/quote]

I dont know why you are pointing this out again, but Its not my fault Lamar Odom went away from what was working so well... Why dont you call your boyy up and tell him to post up every single play...

[B-Scott]

It's hard to post up when Kwame and Kobe are already there. Im fine with Kobe being there,but Kwame needs to focus on D and rebounding. As for your point about Kwame. Did you see the 2004 Pistons posting up Ben Wallace? Does that mean he had to go to the 3 point line. No

Point is i look at the small things in basketball and dont just focus on a guy in the post scoring. I look at the open shots we get from him being in the post.

3rd quarter of Last game we went to LO 4 times in the post

1. Spurs run a double team at him and LO kicks out to Kobe who swings the pass to Fisher for a wide open 3 which he makes. This play is only open because of LO drawing the double team.

2. Spurs run a double team at LO and he finds Kwame for a wide open layup which he misses. That's Kwame's fault. Point is this play was wide open because of LO in the post.

3. Spurs double team LO in the post and Sasha ends up with a wide open 15 foot jumper from the Free Throw line. Sasha misses the shot. This play was open because of LO drawing the double from the post.

4. LO posts up Odake on the right block and makes a turnaround jump hook. The Ref calls charging. That was clearly a flop


So out of 4 times we went to him in the post,we got 3 wide open looks at the basket. You can diss his post up moves all day long,but teams respect him. That's why they double team him and we end up with wide open shots on the perimiter.

Here is Question for you?

If LO post up Josh Howard and Jason Terry comes to double and Fisher ends up with a wide open 3. Will you recognize as a fan who is responsible for that shot being so wide open?

[That Nicka]

Are you serious?

I KNOW THAT LAMAR IS BEST IN THE POST... I know that he gets others open looks... I never have, never will have a problem admitting that....

If he wants to post up and Kwame is there HE NEEDS TO RUN KWAME OUT OF THE POST... Not say "Well Kwame is down there so Im just gonna stand at the 3 point line"



Edit: Why the **** do you keep bringing up what happened when he got double teamed?? I watched the game, I never denied any of that happening.. Why do you feel the need to post it 5 times in one thread????

[That Nicka]

It's hard to post up when Kwame and Kobe are already there.

This is called an excuse.

[B-Scott]

You can't clogg up the lanes with 3 guys trying to post up

One has to back off an that should be Kwame