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Post#21 » by Never Fear 33 Is Here » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:29 am

impulsenine wrote:Between Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans, Dallas, San Antonio and LA, here are their respective records (note, I did this informally just surfin' through their records; I might've missed one or two).

4-2 Dallas*
4-3 Phoenix
3-2 Boston (2 wins vs. LA)
4-4 San Antonio
3-3 Detroit
5-6 LA

So when it comes to creme-de-la-creme competition, it's pretty tight (nobody's dominating), and Phoenix is actually one of the best. In fact, that Dallas record may be a bit misleading: One win was their victory over Phoenix by three points at home 48 hours after the Suns played San Antonio. I am pretty sure that if the Suns had played Houston or Indiana previously, they could've won that game, putting Dallas at 3-3 on this list.


I believe it was actually 24 hours as it was a back to back. :wink:
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Post#22 » by nashill » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:39 am

Guys, we are a tweak away from the Championship. But we will need to have

1. home court advantage against the Spurs.
2. design a team that will beat Spurs
3. Play more of Skinner and Amare to match the big men of Spurs and Lakers ( 20 minutes might be enough to avoid Amare getting into foul trouble).

I'm not worried about Dallas, we can beat them in a run and gun style of game. Im scared a bit to Warriors though.
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Post#23 » by mkot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:59 am

impulsenine wrote:Between Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans, Dallas, San Antonio and LA, here are their respective records (note, I did this informally just surfin' through their records; I might've missed one or two).

4-2 Dallas*
4-3 Phoenix
3-2 Boston (2 wins vs. LA)
4-4 San Antonio
3-3 Detroit
5-6 LA

So when it comes to creme-de-la-creme competition, it's pretty tight (nobody's dominating), and Phoenix is actually one of the best. In fact, that Dallas record may be a bit misleading: One win was their victory over Phoenix by three points at home 48 hours after the Suns played San Antonio. I am pretty sure that if the Suns had played Houston or Indiana previously, they could've won that game, putting Dallas at 3-3 on this list.


Good find, impulsenine.

Just to re-post what I posted in other thread:

- Suns record in the 2nd of b2b games: 5-5
- Suns record in all other games: 25-8
- Suns record in the first game of b2b sets: 10-0

For whatever reason you can come up with, it's obvious, the Suns are woeful under-performers when they have to play two nights in a row. This is not 'it happens' or 'it's just a coincidence' thing, this is a problem. And when you look at things closely, this shouldn't be a surprise that we suck at 2nd of b2b games. We don't play fundamentally sound defense, we're a gimmick defensive team that relies on guys to cover each others mistakes, and relies on quickness and athleticism to cover the disadvantages we have on the size department. All these things are based on energy. When we're tired and don't have that bounce and feel good, we have nothing to fall back. We can still shoot 50% on energy-less night, but we can't even play respectable defense and rebounding to hold our own.

I'll be a glass is half-full person and say The Suns might be a better playoff team than their record indicates. Why? In the post season, there's no b2b. So there's some reason to hope.
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Post#24 » by mkot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:34 am

nashill wrote:Guys, we are a tweak away from the Championship. But we will need to have

1. home court advantage against the Spurs.
2. design a team that will beat Spurs
3. Play more of Skinner and Amare to match the big men of Spurs and Lakers ( 20 minutes might be enough to avoid Amare getting into foul trouble).

I'm not worried about Dallas, we can beat them in a run and gun style of game. Im scared a bit to Warriors though.


1. I agree that HCA is important for any team today, but we had HCA against the Spurs in 04-05 and 06-07 season. Both time we lost. I know we missed players in both series but bottom line is: we lost. If we're the better team, like the Spurs were the past few years, they will win the series regardless.

2. I want to hear your opinion of designing a team to beat the Spurs. And FYI the Spurs isn't the only team we have to beat in the playoffs. Again, all you have to do is look at the standings in the West - there'll be no cake walk in the 1st round no matter who we face. This is the team we have, we need some tweaking to do, but will it happen? Doubt it. What we can do is utilize the players we have, and I think the rebounding can be fixed within this roster and I'm still hopeful our rebounding rate will improve.

3. Agreed. Although I don't think Skinner is the answer, we need a legit post defender and rebounder for us.
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Post#25 » by -SDU- » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:56 am

nashill wrote:Guys, we are a tweak away from the Championship. But we will need to have

1. home court advantage against the Spurs.
2. design a team that will beat Spurs
3. Play more of Skinner and Amare to match the big men of Spurs and Lakers ( 20 minutes might be enough to avoid Amare getting into foul trouble).

I'm not worried about Dallas, we can beat them in a run and gun style of game. Im scared a bit to Warriors though.


4. have a corrupt ref on our side
5. have raja bell get away with permanently trying to injure spurs players
6. have tim duncan and oberto get suspended for a minor infraction that apparantly broke a rule, but was not against the spirit of the rule

;-)
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Post#26 » by nashill » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:18 am

mkot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



1. I agree that HCA is important for any team today, but we had HCA against the Spurs in 04-05 and 06-07 season. Both time we lost. I know we missed players in both series but bottom line is: we lost. If we're the better team, like the Spurs were the past few years, they will win the series regardless.

2. I want to hear your opinion of designing a team to beat the Spurs. And FYI the Spurs isn't the only team we have to beat in the playoffs. Again, all you have to do is look at the standings in the West - there'll be no cake walk in the 1st round no matter who we face. This is the team we have, we need some tweaking to do, but will it happen? Doubt it. What we can do is utilize the players we have, and I think the rebounding can be fixed within this roster and I'm still hopeful our rebounding rate will improve.

3. Agreed. Although I don't think Skinner is the answer, we need a legit post defender and rebounder for us.


2. I actually read and got the idea from previous posts. Designing our team to match he Spurs might have a little disadvantage though (mentally). If we can make them adjust, just like what they did in 2004-2005, it will be a lott better and wil be our advantage. But designing our team to match will need a little adjustment.

- start Skinner and Barbosa. Why Skinner? to avoid Amare getting into foul trouble early in the game. Since Ginobli will come off the bench, i prefer Bell to be fresh when he guards Ginobli. So basically, when Ginobli is on the floor, Bell should be there also.
- we need penetrators. Spurs wont let you shoot 3's thats why marion and bell arent effective offensively against the spurs. Hill played good last time
we faced spurs because he can shoot mid range and he can penetrate.
- i remember the 1st round matchup between kings and spurs where artest and wells dominated their matchup against the guards and small forwards of spurs. if bowen will guard nash, they dont have small forward and a guard that can defend hill. we have to go to hill since he's a good one on one player and a good passer.
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Post#27 » by mkot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:50 am

1. Again, I don't trust Skinner as a starter. He is what he is - a backup role player not really wanted by many teams. He is good in limited minutes because he has limited role. If he give him a bigger role and starter minutes, he might not be able to handle it. We are not in a fantasy where a given player should produce when given minutes. Skinner is good off the bench for us with his energy and shot blocking because 1) he doesn't have to worry about fouling out, 2) he doesn't have to worry about running out of gas at the end of game and 3) he doesn't have to worry about doing other stuff he isn't good at. Keep Skinner on the bench, stop messing with good things.

2. LB is better playing alongside a PG in Nash (who doesn't?) but consider this:
- we need scorer off the bench
- starting LB and Nash make us too small
- Raja is back (both his D and shooting) so there's no reason to bench him now

3. RE: Hill, I'm not worry about Hill's role on this team. Mike likes him. And btw, Shawn shoot I think 40% something behind the arc against the Spurs last post season. He averaged a double-double on 50% shooting to go along with a couple of steals and blocks. I'd say that's pretty effective. Raja played some good D, and it's not like he can't hit mid-range shot, knowing how much he likes to fake a 3 and runs inside the arc to take a little mid-range.

4. You can't compare Hill and Raja to Artest and Wells, Artest and Wells have strong post up game, Hill can take smaller guy in the post, and Raja is solely a jump shooter on offense.
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Post#28 » by nashill » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:36 am

mkot wrote:1. Again, I don't trust Skinner as a starter. He is what he is - a backup role player not really wanted by many teams. He is good in limited minutes because he has limited role. If he give him a bigger role and starter minutes, he might not be able to handle it. We are not in a fantasy where a given player should produce when given minutes. Skinner is good off the bench for us with his energy and shot blocking because 1) he doesn't have to worry about fouling out, 2) he doesn't have to worry about running out of gas at the end of game and 3) he doesn't have to worry about doing other stuff he isn't good at. Keep Skinner on the bench, stop messing with good things.

2. LB is better playing alongside a PG in Nash (who doesn't?) but consider this:
- we need scorer off the bench
- starting LB and Nash make us too small
- Raja is back (both his D and shooting) so there's no reason to bench him now

3. RE: Hill, I'm not worry about Hill's role on this team. Mike likes him. And btw, Shawn shoot I think 40% something behind the arc against the Spurs last post season. He averaged a double-double on 50% shooting to go along with a couple of steals and blocks. I'd say that's pretty effective. Raja played some good D, and it's not like he can't hit mid-range shot, knowing how much he likes to fake a 3 and runs inside the arc to take a little mid-range.

4. You can't compare Hill and Raja to Artest and Wells, Artest and Wells have strong post up game, Hill can take smaller guy in the post, and Raja is solely a jump shooter on offense.


You enlightened me on some points but

1.Starting Skinner doesnt mean he will have more role. He's just the same backup center who starts in the first quarter and 3rd just to
- avoid Amare getting into foul trouble by guarding Duncan early in the game. We need Amare to be out of foul trouble at the second half so that we can go small with Amare at center.
- bring some physical defense to Duncan early to slow him down. I think we can go dirty at Duncan and Skinner is willing (i guess?). He will not be effective as KT though but still better than nothing.
- in the fourth quarter where it matter most, we can go to our usual line up with Amare playing his usual defense without worrying about fouling out of the game.
2. Starting Nash and Barbosa doesnt make us small against Spurs and besides we have two big men, Amare and Skinner with Marion. Nash will guard Bowen, Barbosa will guard Finley. Finley isnt as good as he was going one on one.
- starting Barbosa doesnt mean less role to Bell. Bell will replace Barbosa once Ginobli gets in, usually 7 minutes of the game, that means barbosa can come in replacing Nash when Nash will rest. Bell will just focus on of course on shooting the ball but most importantly he will be fresh when Ginobli goes in.
- we are not benching Bell, he will play minutes as ginobli play.

3. If you look at the Spurs guards and small forwards, Bowen is the only legit defensive player who most of the time will guard Nash. We can exploit that weakness of Spurs by going to Hill at the post where we can attract double team where Hill will most likely to be manned by Ginobli or Finely.
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Post#29 » by nashill » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:56 am

Credit to Mike, I often see this line up usually late second quarter.

Skinner
Amare
Marion
Barbosa
Nash

and havent seen this line for the past few games which is good

diaw
marion
hill
basbosa
nash

Could be a preparation or experiment for Spurs match up ? or just a coincidence?
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Post#30 » by hunterxaz » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:11 am

i think we need to go with:

nash
marion
stoudemire
diaw
bell

i think diaw needs the starting minutes.. and hill needs the off the bench minutes w/ barbosa

we won 4 in a row w/o hill... so we can start w/o him... and he should be understading enough to come off the bench w/ diaw starting...
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Post#31 » by nashill » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:21 am

-SDU- wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



4. have a corrupt ref on our side
5. have raja bell get away with permanently trying to injure spurs players
6. have tim duncan and oberto get suspended for a minor infraction that apparantly broke a rule, but was not against the spirit of the rule

;-)


We have to replace the commissioner first and then the rest will follow... :clap:
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Post#32 » by impulsenine » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:40 pm

hunterxaz wrote:i think we need to go with:

nash
marion
stoudemire
diaw
bell

i think diaw needs the starting minutes.. and hill needs the off the bench minutes w/ barbosa

we won 4 in a row w/o hill... so we can start w/o him... and he should be understading enough to come off the bench w/ diaw starting...



Seconded, especially since the minutes don't actually change much, since Mike basically plays everybody down to the 7th man with equal minutes. I also liked the ten-minute-starter idea with Skinner.
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Post#33 » by enigmatics » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:20 pm

nashill wrote:Guys, we are a tweak away from the Championship. But we will need to have

1. home court advantage against the Spurs.
2. design a team that will beat Spurs
3. Play more of Skinner and Amare to match the big men of Spurs and Lakers ( 20 minutes might be enough to avoid Amare getting into foul trouble).

I'm not worried about Dallas, we can beat them in a run and gun style of game. Im scared a bit to Warriors though.


A tweak? That sounds like more than a tweak. Let's add in the fact that this team needs to learn how to rebound (but how long have we been saying that for) and get a true PG to back up Nash.
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Post#34 » by mkot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:13 pm

nashill wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You enlightened me on some points but

1.Starting Skinner doesnt mean he will have more role. He's just the same backup center who starts in the first quarter and 3rd just to
- avoid Amare getting into foul trouble by guarding Duncan early in the game. We need Amare to be out of foul trouble at the second half so that we can go small with Amare at center.
- bring some physical defense to Duncan early to slow him down. I think we can go dirty at Duncan and Skinner is willing (i guess?). He will not be effective as KT though but still better than nothing.
- in the fourth quarter where it matter most, we can go to our usual line up with Amare playing his usual defense without worrying about fouling out of the game.
2. Starting Nash and Barbosa doesnt make us small against Spurs and besides we have two big men, Amare and Skinner with Marion. Nash will guard Bowen, Barbosa will guard Finley. Finley isnt as good as he was going one on one.
- starting Barbosa doesnt mean less role to Bell. Bell will replace Barbosa once Ginobli gets in, usually 7 minutes of the game, that means barbosa can come in replacing Nash when Nash will rest. Bell will just focus on of course on shooting the ball but most importantly he will be fresh when Ginobli goes in.
- we are not benching Bell, he will play minutes as ginobli play.

3. If you look at the Spurs guards and small forwards, Bowen is the only legit defensive player who most of the time will guard Nash. We can exploit that weakness of Spurs by going to Hill at the post where we can attract double team where Hill will most likely to be manned by Ginobli or Finely.


Sorry but I'll have to keep this short.

1. Yes get a C to protect Amare, but Skinner isn't the answer. The guy never was a starter in his career, and you want to start him against the spurs of all team and take the risk of ruining the team chemistry? Think about that. We started KT against the Spurs because KT has been a starter for most of his career so we know he can handle it. Again, I don't think Skinner can handle starter job while still able to give energy to the team.

2. Point taken. But you are saying this in the assumption on Skinner starting and Hill coming off the bench, which bring us to the next point...

3. Sure we can exploit that match-up to force Bowen to guard one of them, that's why you start Hill, not Skinner. You can't exploit that match-up much if Nash and Hill don't play together. And no, I don't think Hill can take advantage on Bowen in the post. Hill can occasionally take smaller guys in the post, but Bowen isn't small, and he's pretty good in the post as well. The only guy who can take Bowen in the post is probably Boris with his post moves. Hill isn't a post player.
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Post#35 » by Cash » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:21 am

I'm pretty fine, relatively speaking, with the losses to bottom-feeders. The more disturbing issue (for those of you who still think this is a championship team) are the losses to contenders. In years past, the Spurs had our number, but I felt like anyone else beating us in the playoffs would be a pretty major upset.

But now, the Spurs still own us, and I have serious doubts about whether we can beat any of these teams in a 7-game series:

Lakers - only if they're fully healthy

Jazz - can't get a rebound, can't win the game

Hornets - Chris Paul has owned us in both games this year

Warriors - they play our style, but with more speed & athleticism. We don't have the personnel to go big and pound them on the boards like teams do to us, so we have to just beat them at their own game.

I'm not including the Celtics or Pistons because we haven't played them yet. I actually think we'll match up pretty well with the Celtics. And I think we can still beat Dallas, Denver, Portland, Houston, and every other team in the East. But it's looking right now like we'll need some luck (injuries, e.g.) and a good draw in the playoffs to have any chance of making the Finals, much less win it all.
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Post#36 » by nashill » Fri Feb 1, 2008 6:25 am

mkot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Sorry but I'll have to keep this short.

1. Yes get a C to protect Amare, but Skinner isn't the answer. The guy never was a starter in his career, and you want to start him against the spurs of all team and take the risk of ruining the team chemistry? Think about that. We started KT against the Spurs because KT has been a starter for most of his career so we know he can handle it. Again, I don't think Skinner can handle starter job while still able to give energy to the team.

2. Point taken. But you are saying this in the assumption on Skinner starting and Hill coming off the bench, which bring us to the next point...

3. Sure we can exploit that match-up to force Bowen to guard one of them, that's why you start Hill, not Skinner. You can't exploit that match-up much if Nash and Hill don't play together. And no, I don't think Hill can take advantage on Bowen in the post. Hill can occasionally take smaller guys in the post, but Bowen isn't small, and he's pretty good in the post as well. The only guy who can take Bowen in the post is probably Boris with his post moves. Hill isn't a post player.


so how are wegoing to beat the spurs mkot?
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Post#37 » by mkot » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:00 am

What's your purpose of bumping this thread by quoting my post without replying any of my point, nashill?
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Post#38 » by -SDU- » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:23 am

nashill wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



so how are wegoing to beat the spurs mkot?


um, he pretty much answered that in the first sentence of his post

1. Yes get a C to protect Amare, but Skinner isn't the answer.


nuff said
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Post#39 » by nashill » Fri Feb 1, 2008 8:05 am

-SDU- wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



nuff said


Skinner will never be the answer but he can help.. He can help, its not because he's that good but he's the only big guy we have. Im not trying to say Skinner will save the suns.. LOL

Get a Center? who? You friend mike doesnt like centers...
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