Atlanta Rumoured to be talking trade with Milwaukee

[Duncanfan]

Its on the Milwaukee Board. One of their trusted journalists has reported it. The details of the trade discussions are not known.

Majority of Milwaukee fans are proposing Mo Williams + Charlie V for Marvin + Law + Claxton.

Would you guys be happy with the above trade? Has anyone in Atlanta heard of something being discussed with Milwaukee?

[atlsun]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

ya like this deal? I think our gm would do that.

[raleigh]

IMO, that trade makes no sense from Atlanta's perspective.

[JoshB914]

MArvin for a quick fix at PG and weak Charlie V? That would be a disaster even if we are able to move Speedy. I don't think either team does that. We don't want to move Marv for that and NO ONE would take Speedy.

I like Mo Williams. Put Chillz instead of Marvin in that deal and I'm down.

[raleigh]

My problem is that Mo Williams has yet to prove he can lead a team at PG, and is one of the worst defenders at the 1 in the NBA.

He's a 6th man being paid starter $.

[HoopsGuru25]

I hate that trade...if Marvin goes in a trade to Milwaukee I want Bogut or Redd back(which won't happen). The only trade I'd consider for Mo Williams is Law/Chil/expiring for Mo and filler.

[JoshB914]

Where exactly is this rumor on the Milwaukee board? I saw something about an altercation between Mo and the coaches but no trade rumors. Is it within a thread?

[HoopsGuru25]

MArvin for a quick fix at PG and weak Charlie V?

My problem is that Mo Williams has yet to prove he can lead a team at PG,

I don't agree with either of those two statements. Mo Williams is a legit starting NBA caliber point gaurd and he just turned 25. He's also having a career year AFTER he signed his big contract which is always a plus(work ethic). I'd LOVE to have him on the Hawks...I just wouldn't trade any of our top 4 players for him.

[JoshB914]

Marvin is a top 4 player though for us right?

[raleigh]

Mo Williams is a legit starting NBA caliber point gaurd and he just turned 25.

Based on what? His scoring ability?

[HoopsGuru25]

Mo Williams is a legit starting NBA caliber point gaurd and he just turned 25.

Based on what? His scoring ability?

What do Tony Parker,Mike Bibby, and Gilbert Arenas do to make them legit starting NBA caliber point guards besides score?

He's 25 and better than alot of other point guards in the NBA. He has progressed as a passer even after getting a big contract which means he's obviously working hard to get better. He's also much better than any point guard on our roster.

[JoshB914]

Can anyone help me out and find where this was mentioned on their board?

[raleigh]

What do Tony Parker,Mike Bibby, and Gilbert Arenas do to make them legit starting NBA caliber point guards besides score?

Make their team better and defend at least once a game.

[HoopsGuru25]

http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=753339

It says the Bucks are trying to acquire Marvin..which means that they probably won't get him.

[HoopsGuru25]

What do Tony Parker,Mike Bibby, and Gilbert Arenas do to make them legit starting NBA caliber point guards besides score?

Make their team better and defend at least once a game.

How do Parker,Bibby,and Arenas make their teammates better? They are also scoring guards with no other above average attributes who should be evaluated purely on how well they can score. Also...Parker and Arenas are as bad as Mo defensively and Bibby is even worse.

[Atowngetdown]

I rather keep Marvin Williams

[raleigh]

1. Arenas is twice the offensive player that Mo is.
2. Parker has become a more than adequate defender.
3. Bibby has proven he can play within a system & win, something Williams has yet to prove.

For a scoring PG, proving the ability to play within a winning system is what separates the Steve Francis' from the Mike Bibby's.

[HoopsGuru25]

1. Arenas is twice the offensive player that Mo is.
2. Parker has become a more than adequate defender.
3. Bibby has proven he can play within a system & win, something Williams has yet to prove.

For a scoring PG, proving the ability to play within a winning system is what separates the Steve Francis' from the Mike Bibby's.

Your reasoning is dumb. You asked what Mo Williams did that made him a legit starting point guard besides score yet you haven't shown anything else that the other 3 do well besides score. Arenas is better than Mo but his passing(assist to turnover ratio) and defense are both awful for a point guard. Bibby "proved" he could play well in a winning system because he played with great teammates. Bobby Jackson could have started on those Sac teams and they still would have won 50 plus. Parker is also a bad defender. Where did this myth come from that he is "adequate". Francis(who had a bad attitude) in his prime was better and more talented than Bibby(just like Marbury). Bibby didn't win **** on those garbage Vancouver teams but somehow he turned into a "winner" when traded to a team with a top 10 PF in NBA history?

[raleigh]

Arenas is a scoring PG, and one with many flaws, but he's a much better offensive player than Mo Williams. So, even if their defense abilities are comparable (which they are), Arenas is far more valuable to his team. Not to mention the fact that assist-to-turnover ratio is a flawed stat when trying to judge a scoring point's abilities. (It's a flawed stat in general).

Parker is a leader with the ball in his hands. He pushes the tempo of the game, does a good job of finding open teammates, and doesn't EVER keep the ball from Duncan. There are constant complaints about Mo hogging the ball on the perimeter instead of getting the ball inside to Bogut. He's a far more adequate defender than Mo, who doesn't even try on D.

Bibby played in a system in Sacramento where everyone was expected to move the ball quickly. Mo Williams has yet to prove he can do that. Bibby is also a better defender than Mo, even though he's older. And I am certain that if Bibby were running the show in Milwaukee with Bogut and Redd, the Bucks would be a better team.

Bottom line, Mo Williams is the kind of unproven PG that the Hawks DO NOT need. The Hawks need someone they can trust to lead them to the playoffs, especially if the cost is a 21 y.o. SF with plenty of untapped potential.

[raleigh]

I hate to be so hard on Mo, because he's a decent player. He's just not what the Hawks need, and not worth giving up Marvin for.

Here's paulpressley25's (an intelligent Bucks' fan) perspective:

I went through a bunch of John Hollinger stats this morning to try and figure out where Mo fits into this.

On a PER basis among PG's, his PER is 17.21 which ranks him 13th. For comparison, Paul is number one with a 28.6. Billups is second with 24.5 and Nash is third at 22.8. (TJ and Calderon come in 4th and 5th BTW at approx 22)

True Shooting Percentage:
Looking at traditional stats like ppg, apg, and shooting percentage, Mo's got good ones. The problem is that there is nothing he does that is top tier or elite when you look at categories a PG should excel in. I know many of you are talking up Mo's FG percentage this year. Hollinger uses a formula that takes into account not only your FG%, but how many 3's you hit and how much you get to the line and calls it True Shooting percentage. i.e. how effective a scorer are you?

In TS percentage, Mo ranks 17th at .556%. Daniel Gibson is #1 at .640 but then Nash is at .638% and Billups is right behind him at .617%.

I think Mo is clearly improving his shooting this year, but the fact he doesn't take and make enough 3's or get to the line much is one reason why he isn't perceived as being an elite scoring PG. These other guys do that. They either hit 3's at a high rate or draw fouls or both.

Turnover Percentage:
Then I looked at Turnover percentage that measures what percentage of a players possessions end in a turnover. Mo is the 37th PG in TO's whereby 12.2% of his possessions end in a turnover. He's got some good company down there as Nash is at 42nd with 12.4%

But, after you discount Chris Quinn as the leader here with 6.4%, you see in the top ten guys like Calderon, Chris Paul, Billups, etc all in that 6.9% to 8% range.

What it means is that Mo doesn't do a good job of taking care of the ball. You can forgive Nash for being down there because of the Sun's fast pace but the top tier PG's by and large take care of the ball much better than Mo.

Assist Percentage:
The last major PG stat category is the assist percentage or how many of a player's possessions end in an assist. Calderon is #1 at 42.4% and Nash is second at 42.3%. Mo Williams ranks 29th at 28.7%. He's bookended by Chris Quinn and Rafer Alston. This stat isn't so damning because we know Mo's team-mates suck and Deron Williams and Chauncey are at about 31%, at least somewhat close to Mo's 28.7%. The problem is though that guys like Deron and Chauncey bring to the table an elite defensive skill that Mo doesn't have. And an elite skill in not turning the ball over.

But you can see that Mo isn't close to being a top-tier guy in making things happen with the ball. We can blame to supporting cast here to some extent but not totally. Chris Duhon in Chicago feeds a bunch of bricklayers but he's ranked 12th at 34.3% for example.

Summary:
Mo's doing ok as a PG, but he doesn't have one elite PG skill in any of these categories that you want your PG to rank high in. He's not in the top tier at creating, scoring, or taking care of the ball. And none of this stuff takes into account positional defense where we have to play a zone at times in part to stop Mo from getting abused on the screen and roll plays as admitted by Brian James the other night.

The positives though are that Mo is 25 and should continue to improve, as I think he's a better player this year. But if some of you are wondering why there is a subset of guys here who have their doubts on Mo as the future starting PG, these numbers help explain why. Mo's not the problem with this team by a long-shot, but he may not be the answer either.