Manu Vs Joe Johson

[KJ7]

This is close for me. Real close. But I'll have to give Joe Johnson the edge.

The fact that Manu comes off the bench to beat up on scrubs and/or tired starters and plays the types of mins he plays is actually quite a negative to me. So using per40mpg is a bit pointless. The fact is he doesn't usually play 40mpg so why even make the comparison.

He's certainly an impact player on both ends of the court and is a better player in clutch situation but if we are talking about consistency (and it's an 82 game season unlike FIBA World Cup) and that matters to you then you have to go Joe Johnson.

For me, you just know what you're gonna get from him a bit more regularly (altho this season he has been a bit all over the place). I think that's why SanAn have so much depth at the swing position. Cos sometimes Manu is absolutely gonna tear it up and other times he will go missing.

Head2head is a bit irrelevant cos by the time PHX and Joe Johnson were peaking he busted his eye-socket and played 2 or 3 games obviously not at full fitness. After that he played on a much worse team where he had to cover his team-mates mistakes.

I think if you put Manu in JoeJ's current situation he would go off completely in some games but also completely disappear for periods of time and it's a bit unknown how he would go with the best defender on him right from the start of the game for just about every min he is on court. Also, would he have the stamina required to last 40mpg for 82 games? That's a huge unknown.

JoeJ in Manu's situation, he would basically come off the bench and put up ATL stats and then when paired with TD he would put up a lot higher efficiency stats like in his last season at PHX (2.2 3s at 47.8 % from 3pt land remember).

It's a tough one, I just see Manu as a player who plays at an extremely high level in bursts but JoeJ as a more consistent performer over a longer period of time (as in mins). I guess it depends which one you value more.

[OmniDEN]

Some of you are exaggerating just way too much. Johnson is having a bad season sure, but at his best he is just as good as Manu. He's still young too, I'm damn sure he'll be better than Manu eventually.

Right now its Ginobili, but you can't say "it's not even close" or "easily". What a load of bull.

[High 5]

-= original quote snipped =-



If you going to use the hawks, then i can use the argentinian team then as my response, and JJ wish he could lead a team of non nba ballers to a championship

im not hating on JJ

i just find him overrated, yeh sure he has a all around game, but what he is doing on the hawks is no different when jax was on the hawks, or garnett on the wolves, that is putting up stats that dont amount to wins....

I you're going to use the Argentinian team then I can use Joe's middle school basketball team. Both hold equal weight in this discussion. Joe has played 30x better than Stephen Jackson did for the Hawks and KG became a Hall of Famer putting up those "empty stats." Ginobili would be putting up less wins than Joe or KG in the same situations.

[Alex_De_Large]

johnson cause he is the leader of his team.

[kobe#8]

Manu and its not even close!

[The_Believer]

JJ wouldn't even be all-star in the west; Manu has been. Plus, Manu puts up good numbers in <30 min.

[MagicFan3]

JJ wouldn't even be all-star in the west; Manu has been. Plus, Manu puts up good numbers in <30 min.

He is an all-star because his team is good and people focus more on TD and Parker.

[Hood President]

im a hawks fan and i think JJ is overrated. People say JJ doesnt have anybody taking the pressure off of him and thats a load of BS. He is only averaging 3 more points than smith. and 5 more then marvin. and he is shooting a lower percentage than both of them. you got a guy given you 18 and a guy given you 17 a game and you say he isnt getting much help?
sure they to dont get double teamed, sure none of the 2 is on TDs level but still

I know what people are saying "he is being double team" every all star calibar player gets doubled thats no excuse. he isnt even better than michael redd to be honest. and it has nothing to do with that calf injury.

i have no problem with people saying joe is the star of the team, i have a problem with him saying its a one man team. joe has been the most inconsistant.

[Alex_De_Large]

maybe the problem is that josh smith and marvin williams are underrated.

[UGA Hayes]

Subjectively there isn't very much Joe does better than Manu. Post up I guess, thats it.

[risktaker91]

Obi Wan Ginobili

[brown_kids]

Gi-nosebleed

[BrooklynBulls]

I've decided to do something special in order to correlate Johnson and Ginobili's effect on the outcome from their respective positions. I will take Joe Johnson's raw minutes and statistics, and compare them to Ginobili's + Finley's production in the same minutes. I hope its self-explanatory

Joe Johnson:
Minutes: 41.0
TS: .522
PPG: 21.7
Ast: 5.4
Reb: 4.2
TO: 2.6
Stl: .8

Manu Ginobili:
Minutes: 29.7
TS: .588
PPG: 19.0
Ast: 4.2
Reb: 4.8
TO: 2.7
Stl: 1.7

Michael Finley:
Minutes: 41-29.7= 11.3
TS: .497
PPG: 4.3
Ast: .7
Reb: 1.6
TO: .2
Stl: .17

Therefore, A COMBINATION OF GINOBILI AND FINLEY will yield averages of:
Minutes: 41
TS: ~.560
PPG: 23.3
Ast: 4.9
Reb: 6.4
TO: 2.9
Stl: 1.9

If you compare these statistics, the ONLY way in which Johnson has outperformed Ginobili is in the amount and efficiency of his assists. ALL other areas go to the Ginobili+Finley combo.

A note about the combo: I'm using this to measure effect upon the game. Finley is a substandard player at this point in his career, so it is not as if he provides any favorable statistic to this comparison. Basically, you can look at this 2 ways: impact upon game of this position for both teams per 41 minutes, thereby evaluating their respective performance, or the more interesting way: If the Ginobili detractors are correct, and he can only play 30 minutes before getting too tired to be as effective, I've compiled this stat to see how Ginobili might look IF THAT WAS TRUE, and he became Finley for the other 11 minutes. This is the worst possible scenario for Ginobili, since Finley is a far cry from him.

Flame away.

[NDaATL]

wat a load of BS

when he was with the suns, he had nash, amare, marion

And he shot 48% from three, it's not a coincidence.

and manu torched him every head 2 head

JJ has torched the Cavs head 2 head but you don't see us claiming he's better than Lebron.

gino doesnt give a rats if his the main player or the scrub on the team, he does what he has to do to win the game, UNLIKE JJ who wanted to be a franchise player which he clearly is not, he made the choice and his paying for it with a borderline team

Even if this were true, it has absolutely ZERO relevance whatsoever to who's the better basketball player.

[NDaATL]

im not hating on JJ

i just find him overrated, yeh sure he has a all around game, but what he is doing on the hawks is no different when jax was on the hawks, or garnett on the wolves, that is putting up stats that dont amount to wins....

Comparing him to Jax? When did Jackson ever average 25 ppg, 4+ assists and 4+ rebounds and make the all-star team? When did Jax ever face the constant double teams that JJ sees every night? When does Manu EVER receive double teams?

BTW your "puts up stats on bad teams" is only relevant if the players shooting efficiency suffers. See the year that Stackhouse won a scoring title in Detroit. JJ was a very efficient scorer last season so that argument just doesn't work because he would've been just as efficient for any other team. When you're on a bad team, you are usually the only key player so you receive MORE defensive attention, making it even tougher to score.

BTW if we are talking about THIS season alone, I'd probably take Manu, but they are nowhere near as far apart as you insist on making them. I agree with you that Manu has been better this year, but your reasons for justifying it are way off.

[some_rand]

this year? ginobli

[_BBIB_]

Joe Johnson is hurt and is having a bad year.

But he still made an awesome commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3QrwTxUIHo

[JoshB914]

Joe Johnson's struggles are not because of an injury. If you go to the Hawks board you will see many of us ignore how bad he has been. But he is one of the main reasons the Hawks are losing. Everyone non-Hawks fan I know that watches them on LP has agreed with me. And Josh Smith is the best player on the Hawks, not JJ.

I would take JJ for the long haul because he's only 26.

But Manu is easily the better player right now.