Ernie Grunfeld, (Bucks Perspective)

[closg00]

I am hijacking this from the Bucks thread since it makes for interesting conversation.

This was touched on in another thread but given that LH is getting ripped and is likely on his way out I thought this should get a thread.

There is talk that we need a "name" coach like Karl and a "name" GM like Grunfeld. But what exactly did Grunfeld do while he was here? It was Bob Weinhauer who made most of the moves that built the ECF's team. Weinhauer made the Baker trade, Weinhauer made the Allen/Marbury trade.

It's not that Grunfeld didn't do anything good. He did after all draft Redd in round 2 (the same year he drafted Pryz #9 overall (and gave up a first rounder too).

He also traded for Caffey and his large contract. He signed AMase. Both of these moves killed us financially and led to buyouts.

He drafted Haislip.

And that's it. Technically he drafted Ford but not really. He resigned 3 days after the draft, it was already agreed to before the draft that he was leaving. Kohl wouldn't let him walk until after the draft but he also didn't let a lame duck GM make the pick either. Harris made the pick.

So the bottom line with Grunfeld is:

1. Drafted Redd (good)

2. Drafted Pryz (mediocore, giving up an additional first to trade up for him was not good).

3. Drafted Haislip (bleh).

4. Drafted Gadz (bleh).

5. Traded for Caffey (bad)

6. Signed AMase (bad).

For the most part he rode the moves that Weinhauer made before him. And then he left.

And Weinhauer certainly botched some moves too (Robert Traylor anyone?).

Ernie has made some good moves in Washington but as the Bucks GM he was flat out mediocre (at best).

[fishercob]

I was just discussing Ernie's magic touch with my brother.

In no particular order:

1) Traded Kwame for Caron (ironically, netting us Caron and Gil from the infamous 2001 draft)

2) Let Hughes walk

3) Let Jeffries walk

4) drafted Blatche in the second round, locked up up for 5 and $15M

5) drafted Pecherov outside the lottery

6) drafted Young outside the lottery

7) drafted McGuire in the second round

traded the #5 (Devin Harris), Stackhouse and L8 for Jamison

9) Signed Stevenson for free of the scrap heap, and then re-signed him to a reasonable deal

While the jury is still out on #'s 4-7, we've seen indications that all of those picks are good value -- some potentially great. While some people think otherwise, I think the Jamison trade was a great one for the organization. Numbers 1-3 are fantastic. #9 is looking pretty smart.

What other GM in the NBA would you want right now?

[ptown]

He also matched Etan's offer from the Bucks and signed Haywood to a great deal (I think 5 years, 25 mil). So, -1 and +1. My opinion though is EG has been great for us.

I was just discussing Ernie's magic touch with my brother.

In no particular order:

1) Traded Kwame for Caron (ironically, netting us Caron and Gil from the infamous 2001 draft)

2) Let Hughes walk

3) Let Jeffries walk

4) drafted Blatche in the second round, locked up up for 5 and $15M

5) drafted Pecherov outside the lottery

6) drafted Young outside the lottery

7) drafted McGuire in the second round

traded the #5 (Devin Harris), Stackhouse and L8 for Jamison

9) Signed Stevenson for free of the scrap heap, and then re-signed him to a reasonable deal

While the jury is still out on #'s 4-7, we've seen indications that all of those picks are good value -- some potentially great. While some people think otherwise, I think the Jamison trade was a great one for the organization. Numbers 1-3 are fantastic. #9 is looking pretty smart.

What other GM in the NBA would you want right now?

[yungal07]

Don't forget that he dumped Jahidi for an expiring Brevin Knight, which was a coup at the time.

[tkunit]

you left out signed haywood on the cheap

and signed butler to the extension.

[queridiculo]

He also matched Etan's offer from the Bucks and signed Haywood to a great deal (I think 5 years, 25 mil). So, -1 and +1. My opinion though is EG has been great for us.

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Not sure how much credence can be led to this rumor, but I was under the impression that Pollin forced the Thomas signing and that Grunfeld was ready to let him go.

If that's not the case, then Songaila and Thomas are the only blemishes.

Also, no mention of Arenas? Washington took a huge gamble and many so called experts questioned the deal at the time.

About the Butler trade, as good as a deal as it was, it's even better considering the extension Grunfeld signed him to shortly after.

[dorianwrite]

We have not been in an enviable draft position during the EG years. We've had missing first rounders and sad-sack, we-made-the-playoffs, but-we-didn't-win-anything mid-first rounders. He's plucked a high school kid and a Euro, never very "definite" draft choices, and both guys look like they could turn into something, if not immediately. Except for Etan, we're not saddled with even sort-of-bad contracts (someone will now debate Songaila, but I think he's going to turn out great now that he's healthy and once Arenas shows up with a consistent drive-and-kick game).

So: In EG I trust.

[BigA]

Number 1 EG move has to be signing Arenas, no?

[Soup's Uncle]

I think the trade Kwame for Caron+extension is the best move he's made...that's just awesome.

[Dat2U]

I was just discussing Ernie's magic touch with my brother.

2) Let Hughes walk

3) Let Jeffries walk

I'm not sure he deserves total credit for "letting Hughes & Jeffries walk". EG wanted to re-sign both. But was outbid by idiots Danny Ferry & Isiah Thomas for both respectively. Had either player signed for what EG apparently offered, they would still be terribly overpayed.

Relatively speaking it shows that EG is certainly a competent GM, not a perfect one, but better than alot of these former players impersonating brain-dead personnel guys. He's had his good share of mistakes but has done pretty well in DC. Certainly better than he did during his non-descript time in Milwaukee.

I don't follow the "In Ernie we trust" line of thinking.

[yungal07]

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I'm not sure he deserves total credit for "letting Hughes & Jeffries walk". EG wanted to re-sign both. But was outbid by idiots Danny Ferry & Isiah Thomas for both respectively. Had either player signed for what EG apparently offered, they would still be terribly overpayed.

Relatively speaking it shows that EG is certainly a competent GM, not a perfect one, but better than alot of these former players impersonating brain-dead personnel guys. He's had his good share of mistakes but has done pretty well in DC. Certainly better than he did during his non-descript time in Milwaukee.

I don't follow the "In Ernie we trust" line of thinking.

Please enlighten me. How much did EG offer them?

[fishercob]

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I'm not sure he deserves total credit for "letting Hughes & Jeffries walk". EG wanted to re-sign both. But was outbid by idiots Danny Ferry & Isiah Thomas for both respectively. Had either player signed for what EG apparently offered, they would still be terribly overpayed.

Both players had value and he offered them what he thought their value was. He wasn't willing to overpay to keep them, and the foresight has proven invaluable.

[Rafael122]

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Please enlighten me. How much did EG offer them?

IIRC, he offered Hughes $45 million, and $55 million as a last ditch effort to bring him back.

IIRC, he offered Jeffries $12 million.

[Dwade03]

He traded Ray Allen..........

[hands11]

[quote="hermitkid"][/quote]

Also he extended EJ contract before he had to, or again, was the Pollin.

[hands11]

Number 1 EG move has to be signing Arenas, no?

I would have to say it was getting CB.

The Gil deal was a straight up money grab or coin toss.

In the CB deal, he actually got ride of Kwame and brought Tough Juice here.
Then like was said, he extended him.

That's the bigger accomplishment.

No only did you gain an All-Star team leader and maybe franchise player, but you also dumped Kwame so that like going to Hawaii and having one else pay the bill. Easily his greatest move.

[fishercob]

The relative impact of the CB trade/extension and Gil signing are debatable.

The Gil signing was the riskier move, though. If the Gil signing hadn't work as well as it has to this point, EG's tenure here would probably be considered an abject failure.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

EG's #1 move?

He signed here and thereby gave us our first actually bonafide basketball-worthy GM since Bob Ferry... He saved us from another revivification of Wes Unseld.

Good gracious the Skins need to find themselves their own EG.