ray allen needs to get going

Post #21 » by **Bleeding Green** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:15 am

Ray is doing what's he's always done; he's just taking 50% fewer shots.

You people ask for too much. Greed generally results in failure.

Career: 57 TS%
This year: 55.8 TS%

OK, so a slight drop in his scoring efficiency. Certainly nothing to get worked up about, though. It's the difference of two or three really nice shooting nights.

TheUrbanZealot · Post #22 » by **TheUrbanZealot** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:20 am

total LOL at he people suggesting Ray Allen should be a 6th man. You people must be seriously spoiled now, as now not even a 34-7 season, the best franchise record since the dinosaur era, can keep you from blinding yourself from reality. You people are the same people that, if the Celtics were to go on a ONE game losing streak with Ray Allen coming off the bench, you'd clamor or his immediate return...

Ray Allen is only 32 yrs old. Some of you act like he is a dinosaur. The guy is simply taking less shots, shooting a slightly lower percentage, and did I mention taking slightly less shots?

Ray Allen, hands down, has been the most clutch shooting Celtic all year. In every last shot scenario, option # 1 should be Ray Allen.

Come off the bench? LOL

Kefa461 · Post #23 » by **Kefa461** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:43 pm

billfromBoston wrote:
elrod enchilada wrote:Ray's play has declined sharply from last year and previous years. There is no two ways about it. He is nowhere near being remotely close to an all-star caliber player at this point. Hollinger' sstats do not even have Ray in the top 100, and whatever one thinks of Hollinger, his system is favorable to guys who score like Ray. Foire the last nine seasons Ray has been one of the 25 best players in the game. We can park all that stuff about a new big three. It is more like a Big Two and change.

We have to pray this is just an adjustment issue and he will get it together by April. I fear we cannot win a title without Ray at all-star level. In fact, I know we cannot. Our offense needs Ray to beat the best teams. Period.

I am baffled. I love Ray's game. I thought with Ray's body type and skill level his game would not decline this sharply. I pray it is not due to age but to fluke injuries he can overcome. But as the season drags on, my concern grows.

This is the single most important issue that will determine the Cs fate this year, aside from major injuries to KG or PP.

....this is panic talk from a group of fans that have been too focused on a losing Celtics franchise for too long...

This team has hit the point in the season where opponents now have enough game film to effectively defend the overly-simplistic offense that this team brought into the regular season. Now the team has to adapt, adjust, and progress as a unit...

Ray Allen isn't the only one "struggling" either...KG and Pierce have declined in production as well offensively...KG is the only one with a superior shooting percentage to season's past, PP and RA are at their previous levels...

Is this "decline?", hardly...

Watch how Pierce and Allen are being used offensively....Neither player is doing very much within the team offense, both are still taking a majority of their shots off the dribble...this is the way both players have been accustomed to playing for the past 4-5 years and it is going to take quite a bit of time for them to re-learn how to NOT try and playmake off of every touch they get...

Ray Allen looks almost identical to his time in Seattle, sans an additional 15+ touches per game on the offensive side of the ball...he's been streaky his entire time in Seattle and shot a very comparable percentage-much more of a volume shooter than people realize...but the Seattle Allen could manufacture big production out of an off-shooting night by shear volume...

Now that his role in the offense is more limited its taking him longer to re-calibrate and his off-nights look more egregious than they actually are...

It may take all season and even into next season to condition Pierce and Allen into catch-and-shoot or one-dribble jumpers directly off screens...right now they both instantly look to create something first and this is what is taking their shooting percentages down...

...the team needs time offensively...if you've ever watched another team closely when they add major offensive cogs, it always takes 2-3 seasons for them to get up to full speed...the Celtics can compete for a title even if they're not at full speed, but they have to be more offensively competent than they are now if they want to win...

...still have 40 games to work on this....don't freak out...

excellent post.

toecutter · Post #24 » by **toecutter** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:36 pm

Ray Allen? Turnovers? Guy protects the ball better than anyone in the team. Arguably our best decision maker. Garnett is brilliant but too selfless. Pierce is macho but throws up any piece of crap. Allen is somewhere in the middle and keeps the team balanced.

Sorry, this thread title needs a "WTF" warning prepended to it.

Gant · Post #25 » by **Gant** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:16 pm

Here are the problems:

Yes, Ray Allen is playing below his historical standards.

The Celtics offense has been sluggish of late.

Here's the reason:

Rondo has been out a few games AND he's playing hurt. The offense is suffering because Rondo is slowed down. This is what's causing the lack of great ball movement and shooting. Ray Allen is particularly hurt by it.

Rondo will get better and then the team will return to form.

It's that simple.

...and another thing: Basketball isn't advanced particle theory. It's an uncomplicated game before people overcoach it. You don't need an encyclopedia playbook. You need talent, cohesion, and execution. You can tell the opposition what you're running, and if you do it well they still won't be able to stop it.

The offense isn't sluggish because it's too simple. The offense is sluggish because they stopped running it.

Red2 · Post #26 » by **Red2** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:33 pm

I don't think it's a panic attack. We're halfway through the season and with the exception of a few games Ray has not played well. He is shooting a career low and is turning the ball over a ton. Did you see the 2 passes to no one in the timberwolves game? I mean there was no one within 5 yards of either of those passes? He looks a step slow. He still has a beautiful stroke but at some point if his slump continues Doc is going to have to change things up. Being the 6th man might get him going

elrod enchilada · Post #27 » by **elrod enchilada** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:36 pm

Gant--

I agree completely about needing Rondo to get back in the driver's seat. For both the offense and the defense.

I hope you are right about Ray, but I remain deeply concerned.

elrod

jfs1000d · Post #28 » by **jfs1000d** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:55 pm

RedSoxFan729 wrote:You know, honestly I've been defending this team's starting line up all season. We're 34-7. But the more I see Ray, the more I think he could use the couple minutes more rest. TA is a/the spark plug off the bench, but Ray could come out shooting..

Although, I think that he may fit in the starting more than the bench lineup.

The problem is that Rondo struggle to get Ray the ball in the halfcourt. If there is any player that is hurt by our lack of consistent PG play it is Ray. the Celts are asking him to handle the ball a lot more, and Rondo just doesn't find him in the halfcourt. Ray Allen has changed his game and adapted to the Big 3.

he isn't getting the looks that he is used to, and he is never open. I think it is the PG play that is hurting Ray, he needs a PG to set him up.

Rondo is inconsistent, and if we don't play better at this position it is going to burn us. what I mean by inconsistent isn't total stats, it is also quarter to quarter. Rondo goes 15 minutes without doing anything offensively.

Gant · Post #29 » by **Gant** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:20 pm

jfs1000d wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The problem is that Rondo struggle to get Ray the ball in the halfcourt. If there is any player that is hurt by our lack of consistent PG play it is Ray. the Celts are asking him to handle the ball a lot more, and Rondo just doesn't find him in the halfcourt. Ray Allen has changed his game and adapted to the Big 3.

he isn't getting the looks that he is used to, and he is never open. I think it is the PG play that is hurting Ray, he needs a PG to set him up.

Rondo is inconsistent, and if we don't play better at this position it is going to burn us. what I mean by inconsistent isn't total stats, it is also quarter to quarter. Rondo goes 15 minutes without doing anything offensively.

I would call Rondo- "developing." He's got all star caliber talent. He's playing injured now. *INJURED* Please keep that in mind.

Keep developing him (and Big Baby). If he keeps on course the Celtics will have an excellent chance to win the title.

You're paying a few tough games now for playoff wins later.

Joebiscuit · Post #30 » by **Joebiscuit** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:00 pm

KG is out. Either way the c's have not been playing well at all lately so I see a loss here.

Post #31 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:58 pm

I have to say I completely disagree with the idea that Rondo's play is affecting Ray's. Ray seems to be taking the same shots he was taking at the beginning of the year, except he is becoming much less successful getting to the rim. Rondo hasn't been playing great but I don't think its had any affect on Ray.